The topic of discussion was the fact that we're trying to encourage employees to share salaries with each other. They wanted to try to argue that it was against the "corporate culture" and "Attitude" and that it creates an "uncomfortable work environment" where people who might not be willing to share that information are feeling pressured to, and compared it to sharing medical information.
I'm like 90% sure it's a federal crime to tell an employee not to share their salary.
Did you get this on paper? or any recording? bcause retaliation is a thing.
I know I'm being pedantic, but calling US labor violations crimes always frustrates me because it's actually giving US labor law way too much credit. It's not a crime, it's a violation of the NLRA.
Per the NLRB's guidebook:
The Act is remedial, not criminal. The National Labor Relations Act is not a criminal statute. It is entirely remedial. It is intended to prevent and remedy unfair labor practices, not to punish the person responsible for them. The Board is authorized by Section 10(c) not only to issue a cease-and-desist order, but “to take such affirmative action including reinstatement of employees with or without back pay, as will effectuate the policies of this Act.”
Basically as long as employers don't clearly punish an employee for talking about their pay with their coworkers, nothing can be done, and even if they do punish the employee, it is on the duty of the employee to know their rights and seek restitution, and even then nobody will actually get in trouble because the NLRB is toothless.
I'm normally anti carceral, but treating labor violations as misdemeanors would do wonders
Oh absolutely, the material damage caused to someone by not paying them fairly or unjustly firing them is far greater than most ills classified as misdemeanors which could befall them.
:aus-delenda-est: is usually such a low bar to match and the US still can’t fucking reach
the current carceral apparatus is bad, but a carceral apparatus where "white-collar" crimes and abusing people you have power over are punished extremely harshly hasn't been tried to my knowledge and that sounds like a fun thing we should do for a few decades.
if think if you're already in power you can do better than that, like the rehabilitation of Puyi, but redirecting the punitive bloodlust tough-on-crime brainworms that westerners have towards people like the Sackler family or probably every CEO could take the heat off of crimes of poverty.
When you flip all uses of the state from working against the proletariat to working against the bourgeoisie and it all looks pretty decent.
I really don't want to lock anyone in a cage if there's literally any more humane alternative.
If the bougie is hell bent on destroying socialism then incarcerating them might be a necessary measure of protecting the socialist state.
An alternative could be to strip them of their assets and class position I suppose. But such an act could seriously spook the other bougies, I suspect prison scares them much less than losing their property and class.
An alternative could be to strip them of their assets and class position I suppose.
Honestly, if you're not socializing the economy, what's the point of a socialist state? Like, stripping the bourgeoisie of the assets and class position is the point.
For the same reason every existing ML project hasn't just pushed the communism button yet. Gotta coexist with the capitalist system until its defeat is guaranteed.
That's not what I'm saying dude. Venezuela has the commune system where control of firms is handed directly into worker control. That's what practical socialization looks like. I'm not making an immediatist argument, I'm making the same arguments the Chinese left was in the late 60s.
Yes but there are still industrial bourgeoisie in the country, they are still likely trying to fuck the revolution, and a moral decision between incarceration, stripping their assets or execution is likely to be necessary at some point or another.
The problem that you have is that while stripping their assets is more moral from our point of view, the reaction is actually likely to be significantly worse for the country than imprisoning them because from the perspective of the bourgeoisie imprisonment is something they can avoid whereas stripping their assets is not. The other bourgeoisie are likely to ramp up their efforts against you as are the international bourgeoisie if you make the more moral choice from our point of view, this doesn't mean it's the most strategic and correct option.
Also, in some states companies are required to conspicuously put up a poster that says, among other things, that you're allowed to discuss salaries.
The real reason was my coworker found out hes paid 8000 dollars less than a new employee who was just hired even though he has been here for years
creates an “uncomfortable work environment”
Yes yes. It is you, employee, that is causing your fellow coworkers distress and discomfort by telling them their difference in pay is checks notes 8000 -- wait holy shit did we really get away with that?
:porky-scared-flipped: "By God, we're overpaying new employees!"
Get it in writing. No need to say the real reason why - just see if there's any way to get them to repeat that over email.
This is basically the one thing that a state labor board is useful for and you'll be happy to have it in your back pocket.
Isnt it illegal to tell employees not to share salaries?
Sorta. You have to file a ULP with the NLRB, wait months, go to arbitration, etc. If you haven't been fired, then the consequence is a stern talking to and a poster in the break room saying "you can discuss wages"
If you have been fired, you get your job back and possibly backpack minus unemployment.
that's why
They wanted to try to argue that it was against the “corporate culture” and “Attitude” and that it creates an “uncomfortable work environment”
instead of directly punishing them or telling them not to
Those are threats though, you can get fired for creating a hostile work environment
No, of course not, that's not what I'm saying, I'm just saying that it is an obvious threat that you'd have to be a US judge not to see
No, I was serious actually. But the NLRA doesn't keep you from getting fired if it's for an illegal reason like that, it just means you can sue them later if you can afford to
Edit: Or if they made you sign an arbitration agreement like @Nagarjuna described, that's your option instead
I tried to ask him specifically what about sharing salary information would upset someone and pressed him on his comparison to medical data
He ceded the point that the medical data comparison was silly but wouldn't ever give me a specific reason why someone would be uncomfortable
So then I kept trying to press him in order to ask what the company position was on an anonymous spreadsheet because then no one would be "uncomfortable" but he refused to give me an opinion
Literally almost a verbatim "no comment"
Send an email to your boss outlining what happened. Like, "Thanks for the emergency meeting today on January 13th 2023 at xxx time. Please advise if you want employees to discontinue talking about their salaries" or whatever so you have an actual paper trail. BCC yourself if it's a company email. This lets you prove intent if your fired as a retaliation for this, might get you some unemployment checks or something I dunno. Always nice to have contentious in-person meetings spelled out in writing.
Ok they def doing illegal shit then like underpaying certain employees, maybe along some racial or gender lines.
Keep it up, but be careful, especially if it’s an at-will state.
Doing this now. Be surprised if they end up putting in writing however, they were VERY sure and specific to use weasel words like "company culture" and "uncomfortable work environment"
I actually ended up receiving one. I am X lol
"Hey guys, good morning.
Per X's request on Friday, I’m sending you a recap of notes from our meeting. Sorry for the delay, I ended up taking yesterday off and received the request after I signed off on Friday.
If you have any questions, please let me know. Thanks again for the dialogue.
• I met Friday 1/13 in the afternoon with X and Y at the same time.
• I emphasized the need to be aware salary information can be personal and sensitive for different people and my concern of bringing it up to new employees in a new professional relationship brings risk into the work environment.
• It's important that if there are issues related to the workplace or a concern that needs to be addressed, then coming to me (or a Group Manager) should be the first step especially regarding HR situations. • At one point in the conversation I compared salary information to being as sensitive as medical information for some individuals. I acknowledged that was a mistake and I went too far with my assessment.
• The issue at hand has nothing to do with Y getting the information of other individual salaries because I was already aware of the situation and was already targeting an adjustment.
• Y acknowledged he came to me with good intentions and quickly which I do not dispute. Also, I fully believe he did not put any intentional pressure on other team members regarding their salary.
• During conversations involving X I acknowledged he seems to have emotional reactions related to the topic of pay because of several factors and that I am providing feedback and an open dialogue out of respect to that because he is a leader in the building and on the team. "
I hope your emplyoer has a nice time and experiences no setbacks...
I remember when this happened at a job I had in highschool and management lost their shit. They basically pressured folks into signing a paper saying that we wouldn't discuss our pay and hinted at our jobs being on the line if we didn't sign. Absolute garbage.
an emergency for you but not for me! My favorite kind of meeting
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
When you and another employee have a conversation or communication about your pay, it is unlawful for your employer to punish or retaliate against you in any way for having that conversation. It is also unlawful for your employer to interrogate you about the conversation, threaten you for having it, or put you under surveillance for such conversations. Additionally, it is unlawful for the employer to have a work rule, policy, or hiring agreement that prohibits employees from discussing their wages with each other or that requires you to get the employer’s permission to have such discussions. If your employer does any of these things, a charge may be filed against the employer with the NLRB.
They can still discourage you from doing so or make it sound ominous, but there's nothing they can actually do about it.
