- cross-posted to:
- news
- news
- genzedong@lemmygrad.ml
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- news
- news
- genzedong@lemmygrad.ml
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
who could've seen this coming
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Hersh first gained recognition in 1969 for exposing the My Lai Massacre and its cover-up during the Vietnam War, for which he received the 1970 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting. During the 1970s, Hersh covered the Watergate scandal for The New York Times and revealed the clandestine bombing of Cambodia. In 2004, he reported on the U.S. military's mistreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison. He has also won two National Magazine Awards and five George Polk Awards. In 2004, he received the George Orwell Award.
Hersh has accused the Obama administration of lying about the events surrounding the death of Osama bin Laden and disputed the claim that the Assad regime used chemical weapons on civilians in the Syrian Civil War. Both assertions have stirred controversy.
Damn so this shit ain’t new to him. Some are critical of him for citing anonymous sources which included me, which is why I searched him up in the first place
Liberals basically cut him off after the Syria stories
The points in favor of trusting the source here are:
- Tons of circumstantial evidence pointing in the same direction
- The significant history of the journalist breaking/reporting on similar stories
- It's presumably someone inside the U.S. government being critical of it, meaning less incentive to make up this kind of story
Democrats will reject the story for obvious reasons. The Republicans, however, will reject the story because the source said of Biden “I gotta admit the guy has a pair of balls. He said he was going to do it, and he did.”
I mean it really does take balls to point a proverbial shotgun at your foot and pull your finger
Blowing up the pipeline hurt Russia and Europe. The U.S. now gets to sell gas to Europe at inflated prices and prolong the war it (not most of Europe) wants.
So much like many corporations, the U.S operates under the strategic plan of "Short-term gains = tangible immediate profits > long-term gains = theoretical profits"
Fun part of that strategic plan is this little thing called Blowback. Gonna be fun seeing the Blowback from this one
America is a country that has engineered a way to spend infinite amounts of money on anything they like (mostly guns and corruption), and yet they still need more
Once it's done what is anyone going to do? The EU would more or less have to form a united front with Russia against the US to retaliate and that's a pretty big ask given that the US owns so much of the EU's politicians.
Decades of reporting on the biggest coverrups of the US military, but the Syria claims make him persona non grata.
I still have a step 0 objection to the chemical weapon theory. Why bother with chemical weapons? They're a pain in the ass and they'll make everyone mad at you. Just use HE or incendiaries. It's like deciding to insult someone by shooting their mother instead of just flipping them off. Same result but why give yourself the extra grief?
And then Assad immediately complies with demands to turn over any and all remaining gas in the country anyway, so it must not have even been militarily important if he was willing to use it once to kill some civvies then turn around and immediately dismantle it all.
“Seymour Hersh? Isn’t he that whack job who was [right about literally every word he has ever published]?”
Fantastic read, too detailed and too plausible to be fiction. Of course everyone here knows it was the US, but it’s good to have confirmation. I am sure this little piece of information will “die in darkness”
It's not proof at all. It's credible because it adds a nice story to the only realistic explanation for what happened. Even if it's totally made up and the "real story" came out twenty years from now whatever the real story is would be pretty much the same because... this is basically what must have happened because the US government and military are pretty much the only ones who would want to do this and would be able to do this.
What the fuck how has he not been suicided yet
Edit: not that I want this to happen to our guy here, hope that's clear in context
Character assassination is so much easier, most of his reporting in the last decade is seen as crackpot Russia-backed conspiracies so he's not seen as a reputable journalist as much these days despite being proven consistently right in his reporting for 40 years
the US apparently has ONE GUY. just one. to publicize these things.
holy shit what a sick broken country.
The divers were Navy only, and not members of America’s Special Operations Command, whose covert operations must be reported to Congress and briefed in advance to the Senate and House leadership—the so-called Gang of Eight.
Lol so congress knows the US has a school for elite military divers that not even spec ops get to attend, and they don’t say “hey how come normal soldiers are getting such advanced training?” Something tells me congress is looking the other way to allow covert operations to occur with official deniability
It's really funny how liberals insists that bureaucratic rituals must be performed flawlessly, yet they are completely fine with rendering the rituals materially pointless by rules-lawyering. If they don't want to tell politicians about their shady operations they could just not have told them. But no, that would have been against the rules. Doing it this way is completely legit though.
I imagine every government is like this to create a paper trail. Plus some of these ghouls are unable to sleep at night unless they believe they’re not ghouls by respecting da rulez
All this paper-thin plausible deniability shit comes up constantly and they use it to shield each other from consequences. Reagan says he didn't know about Iran Contra. Bush says he has a memo that lets him violate US law, the UCMJ, international law, and every other law and torture people because a lawyer wrote "torture is not torture" on a napkin.
Obama can hunt down and assassinate US citizens but citizens can't sue to keep him from assassinating them because his orders are all secret so they're not allowed to see them so they can't prove that he's using the sceret orders to illegally murder him, and since they can't prove it the courts are helpless, and it just goes around in circles. It's all bullshit, it's all makebelieve. Power does what it wants and there are no consequences.
This also explains Trump and Biden announcing plans and shit publicly, apparently if you that you can bypass congress and the "gang of eight" lmao.
Biden’s and Nuland’s indiscretion, if that is what it was, might have frustrated some of the planners. But it also created an opportunity. According to the source, some of the senior officials of the CIA determined that blowing up the pipeline “no longer could be considered a covert option because the President just announced that we knew how to do it.”
The plan to blow up Nord Stream 1 and 2 was suddenly downgraded from a covert operation requiring that Congress be informed to one that was deemed as a highly classified intelligence operation with U.S. military support. Under the law, the source explained, “There was no longer a legal requirement to report the operation to Congress. All they had to do now is just do it—but it still had to be secret. The Russians have superlative surveillance of the Baltic Sea.”
Yah JSOC and Delta Force specifically are basically a black hole that sucks in money and spits out drug and human trafficking
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/fort-bragg-murders-1153405/
It's probably a bit of both. There are a huge number of wacky hyper-specialized military units in case you need to erect a portable missile launcher in Antarctica or need someone who is specialized in assassinating whales using kung fu or something. And using utterly transparent bullshit like "Well technically the president said this even if no one knew what he meant so that means this law technically doesn't apply so when this all comes out ten years, millions of deaths, and trillions of dollars later we're going to technically walk out of the court house and in to cushy consulting jobs."
When Reagan did it the line was "What did he know and when did he know it" and the response was "I do not remember at this time" and there were basically no consequences for Iran Contra, where the president literally did literal treason literally.
There were also shades of it during the Clinton "I fucked my intern" scandal where the line "it depends on what your definition of "is" is" was uttered.
It's all bullshit. The law is whatever they need it to be at the moment and people only get in trouble if they piss off too many of the wrong people or they're selected as the disposable cut-out.
Like the president of the US launched a covert first-strike AGAINST NATO without congressional knowledge or approval and no one cares and nothing is going to come of it.
:lathe-of-heaven: >Germany somehow gets NATO to expel the US
:lathe-of-heaven: > It's because Germany starts WW3 and annexes the other NATO countries.
As always, should you or any of your IM force be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions.
The Americans provided one vital element: they convinced the Sixth Fleet planners to add a research and development exercise to the program. The exercise, as made public by the Navy, involved the Sixth Fleet in collaboration with the Navy’s “research and warfare centers.” The at-sea event would be held off the coast of Bornholm Island and involve NATO teams of divers planting mines, with competing teams using the latest underwater technology to find and destroy them.
It was both a useful exercise and ingenious cover. The Panama City boys would do their thing and the C4 explosives would be in place by the end of BALTOPS22, with a 48-hour timer attached. All of the Americans and Norwegians would be long gone by the first explosion.
Excuse me what? That's the most obvious timing in the world. Of course you wouldn't detonate it while you're still there. Oh but we were nowhere near that explosion when it happened! Said the madman to the child.
Plan so dumb senile :biden-alert: had to override them and force them to detonate the explosives later lmao
Guess I just had to keep reading, Biden didn’t approve of the 48 hours so they had the US and Norwegian navies engineer a solution.
On September 26, 2022, a Norwegian Navy P8 surveillance plane made a seemingly routine flight and dropped a sonar buoy. The signal spread underwater, initially to Nord Stream 2 and then on to Nord Stream 1. A few hours later, the high-powered C4 explosives were triggered and three of the four pipelines were put out of commission
I remember someone here mentioned the Maritime patrol plane that flew the length of the pipelines the day they blew up, as well as the Baltic naval exercise that coincided with the strike on Nordstream, so it’s encouraging to be able to show that we were right.
Maybe this is :doomer: though but I doubt this story has legs. You think everyone who’s still going slava Ukraini knows or even cares about the schemes going on in the background? I’ve explained to multiple people about Nordstream and what it means for US/NATO and the proxy war, but I’m afraid it doesn’t sink in because of the propaganda.
Gonna enjoy waving this article in people’s faces though. Also lol at Victoria Nuland being Biden’s undersecretary of state, I didn’t know that or just forgot. Amazing
I doubt this story has legs. You think everyone who’s still going slava Ukraini knows or even cares about the schemes going on in the background?
It'll be like Iraq.
- Lies come out early on, but most people ignore them due to propaganda.
- Gradually, as the costs of war are realized (and more lies emerge), supporters are peeled off.
- Many people ignore the whole situation for years. Some likely acknowledge the lies, but stop their vocal support instead of start vocal opposition.
- The consensus gradually becomes "this war was a bad idea," with more and more people becoming open to the fact of the lies. "We had good intentions, but what can you do?" is still pushed heavily, though.
- A decade or three down the line the lies are supported by incontrovertible evidence, but "this new war is different."
So major :doomer: if the pattern continues, but in the short term this may help blunt rabid warmongering.
Public opinion is far away from the actual levers of power. This will matter for the leaders of the US, Russia, and Germany tho I assume they all already knew the bulk of this information. Will be interesting to see if this actually shifts anything in how this “proxy” war is being carried out
They really are the live ball in this situation. I really need to find good news sources for what’s going on in the EU/practice my German
It seems like a damp squib. At this point no one really cares. We look out the window. We see the horrors. We shrug. We turn back to the TV.
Just like how you can't trust those damn Sweds, you can't trust those crafty nords.
But so what? Who was going to do anything about it? Look how things turned out. There was never any other credible suspect, America was the only country that stood to gain from it, and Ukraine didn't have the capability.
Seriously, how does Germany not see this as an act of war? It is extremely cucked that the German PM isn't calling for international sanctions against America in an emergency UN meeting over this.
All of Europe is like that lol.
Also a bit unfair to cucks, they have 100 times more self respect than :eu-cool:
No South African, just know about Orban because he keeps saying homophobic stuff.
the EU are kinda cucked by America right now. Though they have been making efforts of doing their own thing, so now America is picking away at the peripheral states of the EU, e.g. Norway, UK
Because they are already militarily occupied by America and have been since 1945. NATO is there to keep a gun over Europe's head as much as Russia's.
If they say it's an act of war then they're at war with America. With no gas. Then what?
Well they don't have to go into open war, but they could expel the US military bases from German soil and build cooperation with Russia to secure their energy future.
Okay but that's just going to war with the US with extra steps. How are they going to secure their energy future? Any energy has to go through US controlled territory and the US will just bomb it. The US controls the Baltics and Ukraine. I guess maybe they could get Poland to play ball and let them run a gas pipeline but it'd be like, what, five ten years? And the whole time the US will be sanctioning shit for cooperating with Putler to build the pipeline and making life hell for everyone in Germany business and politics and doing the whole rigmarole.
I think you underestimate the cards that the EU could hypothetically play. You can't sanction Germany without sanctioning all of Europe, and I don't think the US has the power soft hard or otherwise to strongarm every country in Europe all at the same time. Worst case scenario they cause the EU to shatter (inshallah), best case they galvanize anti-American sentiment against themselves and are soon kicked out of the entire hemisphere.
Would America be willing to go to war directly at any point in this process? Against Europe, again I'm not so sure. They would probably have to stick to funding extremists and hoping for the best (worst) to happen.
II admittedly don't know that much about EU internal politics right now, but given how apparently suicidal the current leadership in DC is about pushing their conflicts with Russia and China they definitely seem crazy enough to try to blow up the EU. Plus don't they control tons and tons of individual politicians and rich people in throughout the EU?
Plus don’t they control tons and tons of individual politicians and rich people in throughout the EU?
Maybe but I feel like out of all of America's "allies" the ones in Europe probably have the most sovereignty. Still, if the German leadership aren't willing to test the waters of actually coming into conflict with America, then they might as well be a puppet government.
We get Seymor Hersh and John Pilger. They get :die-motherfucker:
Seymour Hersh has publicly announced he has suicidal tendencies :stalin-gun-1::cia:
:biden-rember: Well sure, the explosives we're ours, placed by divers we trained, from ships we command. But think about it, we couldn't have blown it up if the Russians hadn't built it, so who's really at fault here?
If Karl Marx didn’t invent communism, then the US wouldn’t have had to fund Osama, and 9/11 wouldn’t have happened. Communism caused 9/11
I mean it'd be awesome to have a giant fat hard drive full of time stamped geolocated texts and pictures and shit but would it matter? What organization would have the motivation and means to actually take the government to task on this? I guess the GOP could use it to make hay but I don't know what they'd do with it.
Holy fuck, did Biden/Nuland unintentionally leak the plan during their press conferences? That wasn’t precalculated? Holy shit…
:biden-forgor:
Someone should post this on :reddit-logo:, want to see all the :cope: from them
It's been posted in a few places. Getting traction where you'd expect and downvoted where you'd expect.
They refused to give an opinion on who did it because Ames is still very embarrassed about the bad call on the original Ukraine invasion. It's ironic though because they had a great episode on CIA sabotage like last month.
He did indeed. I cannot fathom what anyone imagines Putin’s motive is there.
Follow up. Ames took the article at face value and came to all the same conclusions that everyone here saw immediately. Between his tone, and the sheer dissonance between his initial take
probably Russia, because the US would never risk it.
…and his current take…
of course it was the US, it’s not in anyone else’s interest and if they got caught red handed it wouldn’t matter because they’d just call the journalist a blogger and the imperial core will go back to work like they’re not starting ww3
…I suspect he’s seen the light all along but is just weary of sticking his neck out to contradict the war machine. Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt I guess.
