For me, it's the bullshit where no one ever brings up the shitty working conditions or bigotry in the gaming industry, but they will come together and loudly throw a tantrum about the developers not overworking themselves to make their treat 100% what they wanted.
I swear to god, gamers are the most product-brained people on the planet, they can't comprehend the idea of a development team having a vision for a game that doesn't match their own. They pretend that their complaints are "fighting the big multimillion corporation" when really they have no problem with soul-sucking corps that treat their employees like shit as long as the product caters to their specific tastes.
People were madder about Rockstar doing a remake with graphics they don't like than the 100+ work hours they made developers do to complete RD2
They're more annoyed that the Switch doesn't have PS5 Graphics and makes "baby games for Disney adults" than they are that Nintendo of America treats employees like shit
And you know the only reason they give half a shit about Blizzard's sexual harassment problems is that in their eyes Blizzard has been making "sub-par woke garbage" these days. If Fromsoftware was harassing their workers, they wouldn't care.
Instead of addressing the issue that the industry is bad as a whole because of capitalism, they will instead demand you vote with your wallet. Calling you a shill if you like anything from whatever company they have decided they hate at the time while ignoring problems from companies that create things they enjoy. If anyone points out that ethical consumption doesn't exist then you'll be called a hypocrite.
And they can't tell the difference between defending the workers that made a product and a giant corporation, either. It's really gross how they complain about overworked underpaid workers as "lazy devs"
Gamers delenda est. :gamer-gulag:
[end of my giant embarrassing rant]
When I dared to gaze into the abyss called /r/Kot!kuInAction during the early reveals of just how fucked up the misogynistic creep culture was at Activision-Blizzard, and I for some reason had hope that maybe that'd be one time, just one time, that the misogynistic creeps would stoop :bootlicker: for corpos, what I saw in their posts about it when the reveals were recent was... unexpected. Yet still horrible.
Those fascists claimed that if "alpha males" were in the company instead of "soy numales" they'd be too busy "making good games" to assault their coworkers, and they claimed that having feeemales around at all was also a morale problem that could have been prevented by having no feeemales present except as "entertainment."
:dead-dove-1:
:dead-dove-2:
:dead-dove-3:
Those fascists claimed that if “alpha males” were in the company instead of “soy numales” they’d be too busy “making good games” to assault their coworkers
I thought that respecting women was for "soy numales" and that "alpha males" just took what they wanted? Fucking fash can't even make up their minds.
I think the chud synthesis was that if alpha/sigma/whatever Real G!mers were working there and there were no feeemales present to distract them, they would Just Make Good Games(tm).
My guess is their internal reasoning(whatever crumbs exist of actual reason) is that the "soy numale has to resort to assault/harrassment because he cant get any otherwise" vs the "alpha male already has consentual relationships"(with implication that women wouldnt reject that guys advances in the first place anyways).
Goes without saying that bigotry is the main one, but I find their gatekeeperness incredibly draining as well, you see people all over the internet acting like playing/being good at Soulsborne games or whatever is a personality (no hate to not toxic Soulsborne players, of course)
the most annoying thing about gatekeepyness to me is that actual professional competitive videogame players are usually quite humble
people who are mediocre at best are all "I AM A FUCKING GOD AT THIS GAME, IF YOU DON'T DO WHAT I SAY YOU ARE A FILTHY CASUAL"Mm, it's weird, I guess it's Dunning-Kruger effect in action
flashbacks to playing casual csgo with someone who couldn't aim right but screamed "YOU ALL FUCKING SUCK" at global elites
actual professional competitive videogame players are usually quite humble
That may depend on the game and its specific fandom.
fair
i have noticed that fighting game players tend to be egomaniacs
though i tend to think it's mostly an actthough i tend to think it’s mostly an act
I personally no longer take irony as an acceptable excuse for anyone being an asshole. After all, :heated-gamer-moment: got his start by being "ironically" a piece of shit.
Yeah, good point lmao. Really need to try it at some point.
It's really brilliant but for some reason the home "screen" still looks like a dev mockup with half baked "shops" that are just perpetually there and empty after a certain point, which is honestly bullshit for a game that has been out for 8 years and has multiple DLCs.
The actual gameplay though is very polished.
The "NO HANDHOLDING" mantra among Soulsbrained G!mers really does seem like hazing with extra steps: they suffered and lost a lot and didn't know about the secret doors and whatever, so now they get in line to bully someone else that shows up asking for help.
That's the thing about bullying nerds - it's a lot of fun to do but when they grow up, they think that's what normal human interaction is. They identify anyone who's vulnerable, then bully them, too. And why not? It's the only mode of human interaction they've ever experienced. It's one reason they retreat into games in the first place, to get away from all the people.
Yeah this is what I was partly complaining about too, the whole "you're not a real gamer unless you like (insert the latest popular game that is cool to like)
The contradiction in wanting games as "an art form" but then throwing a hissy fit at "just another walking sim" or any other game that tries different methods of gameplay outside of direct player input. Like it's the most digusting form of consumerism to whine and wank on about that kind of shit when no one is forcing them to play the game, but then God forbid there exists other gamers that like that type of game and it makes them "not true gamers". It seems the consistent undercurrect of gamer culture is a reactionary bend you would see with fash chuds.
What :freeze-gamer: seem to want is for their waifu moeblob gacha trash and their grizzled dudebro "saves" his daughter figure with violence trash to be called art.
Did capital-G Gamers ever want games to be an art form? I feel like that push came from the industry itself and not the consumers. Legitimately curious.
Capital G Gamers as an identity is itself an invention of the industry, much like generational cohorts are generally an invention of the advertising industry.
Very true. Commodity fetishism all the way down. It reminds me of the console war stoking Nintendo and Sega did decades ago.
Nah it was a lot of gamer reaction from art critiques and movie critics claiming games aren't an art form (leading to gamer :frothingfash: ). The industry doesn't care either way it's goal is monetization of whatever is desired at the time. Though in between all this crap you get interesting indie devs and small teams trying out unique stuff similar to how artists use mediums to instill some form of interactivity with the viewer though in this case the viewer is the player/participant. Thing is art requires critique and analysis and this is something consumerist entertainment enjoyers HATE, add in gamergate and the gamer sphere was a fertile ground for further development of fash shit and reactionary content to "wokeisms".
I think moreso they want games to be "taken seriously", but in my experience a lot of this sentiment is kind of based in resentment about not feeling taken seriously themselves and the whole like gamer nerd(negative) stereotype rather than a frustration with how games are treated in discussions and general discourse.
Its kind of the sportsball thing but instead of ending up in cringe elitism it ends up fascist and in a kind of "anti-intellectual" space. Games should be treated intellectually but they also want to lynch any intellectual types that apply social analysis onto games rather than I guess just talking about base emotions the game made them feel.
Summary: Gamers who talk about games as an art form sometimes actually are just projecting that them talking about feeling sad and heartbroken when a guy blew himself up in their shooter game isnt taken seriously like how people say a movie made them feel.
The fact that they don't even know what they want. Whenever a game developer "listens to the fans" only it pretty much always ends up as a trash product. When the developers actually execute their vision instead of listening to twitter or Reddit user 6464676 it's usually good.
As much as people hate it, Call of duty is a great example here. They pretty much always do the opposite of what the hardcore fans want and it always sells a ton. Back when call of duty moved to modern times gamers said it should stick to WW2, back when it had the advanced movement gamers said it should go back to being on the ground. Now that call of duty is basically redoing all the modern warfare games gamers say they should do something new. And as the sales charts show, the gamers were wrong, and will continue to be wrong.
FIFA is another example. Players always say that they don't want the game to based around pace and speed and would prefer a more tactical and accurate soccer game, but every time FIFA does that (usually during the first month of the latest version of the game) the playerbase freaks out and wants the pace based meta back because all their players feel like tanks on a football pitch.
Uncharted is another example. As much as gamers claim to hate the cookie cutter game as a movie style with linear level design, it works every time and the games are usually good (except for uncharted 3)
The fact that they don’t even know what they want. Whenever a game developer “listens to the fans” only it pretty much always ends up as a trash product.
This happened over and over and over and over and over and over again with every EPIC HARDCORE PVP FULL LOOT AND MAYBE PERMADEATH MMORPG that came out, quickly drove off most of its playerbase because it was EPIC HARDCORE PVP FULL LOOT AND MAYBE PERMADEATH and then the same toxic fans blamed the "sheep" for leaving the "wolves'" playground. :what-the-hell:
:marx: MMOs literally keep learning Marxism the hard way, and have to reverse-engineer planned economies where the player inputs are basically just there as a gameplay loop and not actually a meaningful economic input in order to prevent 1% of the playerbase from owning 80% of the high level gear.
Before the chuddy Randroid dev company behind Eve Online patched their game enough times to make it almost impossible to dethrone, or even inconvenience, their preferred landed gentry players (the beginning of the end was the appropriately named "Tyrannus" patch), it used to be heartening for me to see that the most successful alliances in 0.0 space were communistic, issuing gear to their members according to the roles they were expected to play. The day one "shares" system and all the corporate ideology throughout the game's lore and expected gameplay resulted in spoiled, lazy, and often ignorant assholes sitting on piles of game currency and landlording over vast sections of space, and the devs constantly tried to punish the space communists for rocking that yacht, I mean, boat. :porky-scared:
Can you talk more about this (if you want to) because the whole thing sounds fascinating.
There used to be entire online museums full of media, videos, and more about this subject, but I'll see what I can find with a brief dig into what's left.
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/131752/ccp-accused-yet-again-of-corruption-and-bob-favouritism
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/116385/can-someone-give-an-in-depth-statement-regarding-the-bob-scandal
For reference in this video down here, Kugutsumen was a player that exposed and whistleblew dev favoritism (including "roleplay events" that handed exclusive privileges to their favorites, including infinite run blueprints of Miner IIs early on before those were possible to get in-game any other way, along with other equipment which gave them a supply monopoly). He was banned from the game for his trouble, and that wasn't the last time the corporation were corrupt fucks about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZQ4ejFq7BY
Yeah gamers always have these ridiculous ideas and wonder why your average person doesn't want to play this type of game. People that want every shooter game to essentially be a military simulation are the worst. Like when battlefield made sniper rifles do more damage over longer distances to eliminate quick scoping, every mil sim or gun nerd lost it because it was "unrealistic". Or when battlefield introduced experimental guns into their WW1 game so that there would be variety and the gamers lost their minds again because it wasn't historically accurate.
I have ridiculous ideas too, like I want an open world racing game with realistic physics, but I can admit it's a niche thing that probably won't or shouldn't be made.
Lmao I remember when Mass Effect was popular Pokemon fans were saying they wanted "dialogue trees with your choices affecting the plot"
It's wild that as soon as something becomes popular every game has to do what it did.
If it was up to gamers every game would be the same (and then they would blame the devs for that too)
If it was up to gamers every game would be the same
This is already starting with every game thinking it needs to be open world, and include weird RPG and battle Royale elements for no reason. And I'm hating it lol.
I agree, but mainly because I can't afford new gaming consoles or PCs lol
Drg is considered to have low graphics yet my potato laptop barely can handle it when swarms appears.
i love rpgs
most games would be better if they didn't try to incorporate lukewarm rpg mechanicsRPG mechanicas and crafting mechanics are there to artificially inflate game time. It's a marketing thing.
It’s wild that as soon as something becomes popular every game has to do what it did.
G!mers did receive over a decade of almost indistinguishable grizzled middle aged white men avenging their dead wives and/or rescuing/"protecting" a dubiously objectified daughter figure that's often ogled by the camera because the corpos knew what the hogs wanted.
I never liked MOBAs and even before that opinion solidified because of the toxic :heated-gamer-moment: bullshit that seemed deeply intertwined with the esports Epic G!mer mentality, it began because the RTS genre rapidly vanished once MOBAs took off. :deeper-sadness:
This is true of most media when you think about it. What else is all the bullshit algorithmic Netflix content if not "listening to the fans"? Let the creatives be creative. Good art never starts by asking what the audience wants. Good art gives the audience what it needs.
This is absolutely true, but capitalists cannot commodify that easily so actual good content exists in spite of the system it's made in.
I don't encounter capital "G" Gamers often, but I recently joined an indie game discord server and the arguments they get into are so aggravating. Most of it is:
"Why can't game do x." "Because that's not the kind of game it is."
"HNNNNGH".
Then two members got into a slap fight over the viability of a nonexistant feature.
TBH I think it's caused by a lack of control/isolation. Their whole world is based on the next release date and its really sad.
The rabid anti-wokeness. People flipping their shit over games having black characters as anything but faceless enemies, or women who aren't their idea of a perfect 10/10, are so unhinged that I get embarrassed on their behalf.
I didn't watch the video but I got recommended one that was just called "THE PROBLEM OF MODERN GAMING" and it was just a closeup of a gender neutral bathroom in the Deadspace remake. I briefly looked at their page to confirm it wasn't satire before telling YT to not recommend them to me anymore.
"THE PROBLEM WITH MODERN X" tends to be dogwhistling format for chuds most of the time it's used.
"The problem with kids these days is they identify as attack helicopters and want everything for free!" :grillman:
Cracker nerds shouting fascist slogans into voice chat and not being instantly banned from not just the game but the entire platform
I don't like that it's held to be shameful to not know how to play a game "optimally", especially once minmaxing has been thoroughly explored (i.e. once a game has been around for a bit.) There are two facets to this that I have a problem with. First, the more obvious point that no one knows how to play a certain game the moment they pick it up or after just fooling around with it for a bit - this is worst in multiplayer games, for somewhat understandable reasons, but it doesn't make it good. The second is that learning a game's systems and mastering them is often the very best part of playing it! I have looked for tips or guidance for so many games and had the whole experience spoiled (sometimes by my own seeking, admittedly) by an article or a person immediately skipping to the end of the process and just explaining what the best play or build is. I understand that teaching is a difficult skill, but it's so much better to explain to someone how certain things work or what aspects of a system are critical without robbing the player of experimenting and growing their ability. I'm lucky that my current fascination, Dominions, is "unsolved" and extremely complicated, so people are still finding new strats and builds and guides are incomplete or just suggest one viable course of action among many.
Yeah. Love that shit. Lots of little dudes with spears, crazy mythological monsters and wizards from all over the world, way too many spells, and extremely arcane mechanics.
I'll say that even in that game, I have been disappointed to learn the rather smaller number of "meta" spells and builds. Luckily there's not really any magic bullets, but I wish elementals and foul vapors weren't so consistently good.
I don’t like that it’s held to be shameful to not know how to play a game “optimally”
🤮🤮🤮 Fucking soy as hell, peak NPC brain right here it's like they can't stop behaving like subservient gormless efficiency-maximizing cucks to the elite even in their "spare time". So obvious that gaming is pure cope to these morons since they aren't even aiming to play for their own individual sense of fun.
defense of microtransactions
it's one clarifying question away from ableism every single timeI once saw someone defend microtransactions as good because it was keeping "jobless losers" away from their treats
hell even when it isn't gacha it's evil
source: i played Black Desert for a year
Chosen ones of epic destiny that start preselected for greatness, able to mow down ugly and dispoable masses of born-evil enemies? Never! :frothingfash:
I'm not much of a gamer but you've nailed my biggest gripes because the business "practices" are basically capitalism running as it should. Consumers pretend this doesn't effect them because they can vote with their wallet however, they're just as fucked because if the game doesn't make megamillions in the first 10 minutes of sales and have pay as you go content that'll last until the world ends - it's considered a failure, and thusly abandoned. So you either pay to be a beta tester on half broken shit and hope enough sheep like the same thing you do so it can continue to sort of get better - or buy it on sale, broken, with no hopes of it ever being fixed.
Or, they'll fix it just enough to not suck (Battlefront 2) because of optics. And then abandon the game even after playtime is serviceable. Again, because it didn't generate the income to allow the CEO to buy a third yacht.
And gamers are mostly ok with all of the above. Because they think they have the ultimate power because of their place as consumers. Fucking LOL.
:freeze-gamer: asking for "consumer friendly" practices from :porky-happy: is such a weak, losing position.
It's binary, too. You either get half cooked slop made with developer blood, or you get nothing. But somehow, you're in control.
Riiiiiiight.
More often than not, :freeze-gamer: will believe that the prices must be that high and that the monetization must be that predatory, or their entertainment product will automatically be worse.
I don’t play overwatch or valorant but seeing videos and reading stories about people seething when you don’t choose the perfect class composition always annoy me. Oh you want to play gun gorilla? Too bad! I’m gonna keep yelling into the mic because you should’ve been the support!!! Shut the fuck up
Back in the TF2 days, half of the team would be spies and the other half would be snipers and nothing would get done, and you’d just have to shut up and deal with it or leave
If the game needs that kinda role based teamwork then it should assign people classes at random each match.
:this:
I haven't played League of Legends in many years, but when I did, I found All Random, All Mid (ARAM) to be much less toxic since it randomly assigns characters to each player.
Their inability to not optimize the fun out of games. And the racism/homophobia.
But the thing that's been in my mind since I pirated " Not-Harry Potter and The Crushing Mediocrity of Contemporary Game Design" and subsequently dropped it the next day is how much safe, unthinking design is rewarded if it has a pretty coat of paint over it. I don't know what sort of mind virus was unleashed during previous GDC's but now every single player game is some mixture of the Last of Us and Assassin's Creed with a cluttered UI and at least 2 superfluous mechanics.
