And it has all kinds of implications and context and shit.
How the fuck am I supposed to tell what's just people doing things at random and what's a part of all-singing-all-dancing-shit-show the neurotypicals call "social norms"? Down with NTs.
Honestly while it's really fucking annoying that refusal to participate could result in some silly neuronormo interpreting a completely innocuous action as an offense, and it can cut you off from social shit, I think it's basically the only way. The same button never does the same thing twice. Screeching rn.
Might I ask which pointless social norm prompted this? I'm pretty good at helping my wife who's autistic navigate them.
My ADHD ass understands that I'm breaking the social norm but reaaallly needed to say something lol
No :3
Breaking the social norm is usually based. This one requies a facial expression I can't really make...
Is it a smile? I swear I haven't figured out what the fuck a smile really is. I can manage a grimace that's the best you get
I can smile when laughing or w/e but cannot make it happen naturally. If somethin makes me happy or whatever it works great, otherwise no lmao.
That's interesting cause I smile like a motherfucker, and it's stereotypical for Polish people to not smile. Funny how it goes.
It is actually so frustrating not being able to smile in a natural looking way.
mfw I found out that "are you hungry" actually means "will you eat with me" and "what're you doing this weekend" means "would you like to make plans?" 🤦
these are things I learned in the last 12 months – I just turned 42
pretty much all the time, it feels like everyone got a memo that I missed
Once again this comes down to allistic people being afraid to be honest or vulnerable. If i ask you to go for dinner and you say no i have all the bad feelings of rejection and shame. If i say "are you hungry?" And you say not really i can still continue as if i wasn't rejected.
It used to be an innuendo to ask a person "would you like to see my etchings(drawings)?" I remember a teacher of mine finding old newspaper comics that reinforced this
I often ask my wife "are you hungry" and then we both have a discussion about both our hunger levels and actual willingness to eat, lmao
We really do need a Gayroller-2000 style emote for neurotypicals.
your comment made me realize that's the exact conversation I have with my husband about food, tooNTs are the weirdos, we make perfect sense!
That's pretty cool actually, we arrived at the optimal solution individually. Convergent Neurodiverse Evolution!!Ikr, imagine having to ask weirdo questions instead of just saying "Hey wanna get food with me?" or something? Common neurotypical L
But this makes sense because i want to know other people's hunger levels to make a decision on what to do about it. The followup question is usually about what kind of food and when and coming to a consensus on what eataging will satisfy our differing hunger levels.
If I'm asking a rando colleague out to lunch my question literally just is. "Pub?" And i get a yay or nay
Note that the_itsb says the quesrion is not literally about hunger levels, I agree tho.
HOW MANY MORE COMRADES HERE ARE OLD ENOUGH TO BE MY PARENTS :kitty-cri-screm:
spoiler
You're cool, I love you for being cooler than my dad. It sucks my dad isn't as cool :sadness:
We are all secretly your dad posting on alts when you're not looking.
Przestań mi tak kurwa dokuczać. W realu pierdolisz o migrantach a tu jesteś koks??? Ty chuju i chamie pierdolony :kitty-cri-screm:
I found out that "are you hungry" actually means "will you eat with me"
Oh I just realized this one too, a few seconds ago. I wonder how many times I've said not really when I should have said yes??
Probably about as many times as I should have! 🤦😂
oh well
How many people were flirting with us or just trying to be friends with us, and we were totally oblivious??
How many people were flirting with us or just trying to be friends with us, and we were totally oblivious??
I would imagine quite a bit, can be hard to tell with NT people, though I generally can pick up quite a bit though I have had quite a few people just randomly ask me out or what not in the past so they can misread me being interested in them
misread me being interested in them
oh yeah 🤦
took me way too long to figure out that people were reading my natural cheer and enthusiasm as romantic interest instead of just the general interest I intended
Yeah I get that a lot also funny because I'm ace and just my natural way of talking can be misread as flirtation or just because I'd listen to people talk about stuff lol people are weird
Did they expect me to paw at them or something?
I wouldn't know, maybe they expected something to happen but lbecause you didn't do anything maybe they were thankful.
I'd have been the same, I tend to shut down if there is a lot of people. Like I'll only really talk when spoken to so verbally I would be quiet and it would be misread as there something wrong lol. Depending on the people I would typically sit and happily listen to what goes on or listen to a radio or something if they were annoying lol I'm generally polite regardless.
Girl invites me over to watch a movie. I watch the fucking movie and eat a bag of popcorn. Go home.
God this one happened to me and I only realized the fumble I'd made like two years after the fact 'cause she was like. The homie, we'd often take our breaks and hit the smoke pit at the same time, one time when she'd gone back home for a holiday, she actually brought me back a jar of apple pie moonshine because I'd mentioned never knowing shiners who flavored their stuff-- I just thought she was one of the most considerate besties I'd ever had.
Never mind the fact that I know what tattoos she has and exactly where they are, I just thought she was the homie. Been kickin' myself ever since.
People ask this because it's an invitation to eat with someone without the respondant having to admit that they are would like to be fed, which could be consisdered as implying that their host or whatever is being negligent to the needs of their guest. It is a little silly. But, and I am a ND person who has learned a lot of this by trial and error, there are deep instinctual behaviors that these rituals are about. I'm not here to say whether or not any of this is good or not, but especially the rules about hospitality strike me as things that got ingrained into culture in order to make common uncomfortable situations more reliable by the means of rituals that people follow or don't, indicating whether or not they're someone who is going to play their prescribed role - this is maybe why there are often many ritual refusals and acceptances. It's a way to play-act giving someone something that historically might have been precious and if they don't play along, you can weed out people who are likely to take advantage of you. It's imperfect of course and not considerant of neuroatypical people, but it just kind of had to work well enough to keep going.
It is definitely frustrating to not know ettiquette and I often feel like throwing all of it out in favor of a more direct system. Sometimes I do! But for the rest of the time, I find that ettiquette manuals are super helpful, especially when they explain the reasoning behind otherwise inscrutable rituals.
"what're you doing this weekend" means "would you like to make plans?" 🤦
Bad news: sometimes this is just small talk and the only way to tell the difference is tone of voice and context.
I found out that "are you hungry" actually means "will you eat with me"
Or as they say in my neck of the woods: "didjyeet?"
Wow I'm allistic and I didn't even realize those two haha. I mean, if I ask "are you hungry" and the answer is no, I'll just be like "well do you wanna come with me to get food" if that's what I'm asking lol
You should do what I do and assume that everything everyone does has some kind of hidden meaning and spend hours analyzing it.
👍
I used to do this, then I stopped giving as much of a shit when it got me nowhere with people.
Been there and tried it, my brain was melting. Generally I try not to worry about things. I actually would be happier living in ignorant social bliss about things, without being unpleasantly informed about shit like this...
Lol I opened my consult for depression with "good, how are you"
Been thinking about this recently. Best solution I have thought about is acquiring a hip-hop hypeman to answer this shit for me, but I'm too ND to recruit one.
My name's Dickey_Butts and I'm here to say
I'm having an existential crisis in major way
Its a lyrical miracle that I'm here-ical and not in my bed curled up spherical.
I've been there and spent countless time
working on my rhythm and rhyme
Now it's time to let it all out,
join the neurodivergent comm when they shout
THIS SHIT IS FUCKED
CAPITALISM FUCKING SUCKS
Roll out, gats out, arm our trans tribe.
I wear my Reddit Ban with pride.
Fuck the police and the libs too.
No tolerance for genocide
I do that, erratically.
Most of the time I just do the usual reflexive "good, you?" exchange. But it's good to be a little bit mercurial or playful about playing along - if they're weirded out, well, it broadens the mind and all that so it's good for both of us. Amusing either way.
I don't tell people how I am, usually just say good, or a brief not great, they don't generally want to hear so I don't give that information
This was like the first NT social cue i learned and know it very well and have to do it almost daily and I still fuck it up constantly. My brain automatically always wants to answer it literally it takes so much mental overriding to not do that but the "correct" answer always comes out stilted then i forget to ask it back
Internally i know what i am supposed to do but externally I'm now stunlocked while my brain cycles through 500 dialogue options and then i end up saying something really out of pocket and weirding people out. I don't care so much anymore but it made my 20's unlivable
I just learned this Persian word:
In the rules of hospitality, taarof requires a host to offer anything a guest might want, and a guest is equally obliged to refuse it. This ritual may repeat itself several times (usually three times) before the host and guest finally determine whether the host's offer and the guest's refusal are genuine, or simply a show of politeness.
The host is then expected to say one should not do taarof ("ta'arof nakon" - similar to "don't be polite!") for which the appropriate response would be to say "no" two or three times and then pretend to cave in to the host's insistence and pile on the food.
I suspect every culture has examples of this (we can find it everywhere from The Water Margin to Curb Your Enthusiasm), but it's nice to have a word for one of these neurotypical song-and-dance routines that even the neurotypicals haven't mastered.
I hate this kind of shit so much. It reminds me of trying to leave family gatherings and getting stuck saying goodbye to people for an hour. Leave the theatrics for the stage and screen, I just want to say how I feel in the moment.
Act I: Desperately trying to avoid being hugged
Act II: Explaining and apologizing for your ARFID for the millionth time as they try to feed you dubious regional cuisine
Act III: Desperately trying to navigate goodbyes
The person leaving is number one priority for social interaction because people won't get a further chance for a while ( a subjective time frame for sure).
Oh I definitely don't participate in this one. Sometimes I'll ask someone if they're sure, but if I want something you offer I'm sayin' so.
I feel like all social norms boil down to "Why do people do this?"
"Because."
And NT people just go along with the norms that are forced on them, never questioning why things are the way they are. I always get hung up on the myriad possible meanings of everything that is said and done. For me, nothing has a set meaning and everything must be thoroughly analysed with the context, tone, events leading up to it, etc. I know NT people don't think this way and just go through the motions but that's how I instinctively approach social situations and it's hard to just follow the unspoken NT rules, even when I know them.
I don't even think NT people like doing most of the normal routine but they're too compliant to rock the boat.
I think it's MORE CONFUSING because a few make sense, but most do not. It's not even consistent what ones make sense goddamnit, neurotypicals are such fuckers...
Why do people have to say "bless you" when someone sneezes? Surely even people who believe in souls don't still think your soul escapes when you sneeze? Why do people even have to comment on normal bodily functions at all? Why is it rude if I don't respond to people responding to me making an ordinary, involuntary bodily noise??? AHHHHHHHHHH
I used to say "don't worry, I'm not superstitious" a lot when people said bless you and just quit because no one thought my actually hilarious joke was funny. 😞
I think we should do it
I think everyone on hb should be a "gesundtheit" person
I WILL NOT SPEAK GERMAN. URAAAAAAA 🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🇵🇱🐦🔥🐦🔥🐦🔥🐦🔥🐦🔥🐦🔥👑👑👑👑👑👑
I've started saying "nice one" because everyone assumes you said "bless you" so they automatically follow it up with a "thank you" anyway
In Poland we say "Na zdrowie" which literally means "For good health". Even if it's only an allergy, I think it's nice to wish people good health after a sneeze.
Your heart can hiccup/stop if you sneeze hard enough. It's kinda like a "In case you pass out/die". I'm not NT, but I was born, raised, and live in the Southern US. I kinda just autopilot it.
Honestly just speaking for myself as an allistic person i treat interactions with NT people as PvP. It's a fundamentally dishonest environment where at best most people don't care at all about you and just want to keep the day going without conflict but at worst people use the oversharing and the failure to follow norms as a way to fuck with people.
If i don't know the person or have a good read on them, I'm worried they might be a narcissist just looking for an angle. This is probably trauma from my momma but hey
Such a good way to put it. You don't even know if you showed up on someone's sonar either
I wish I could say your approach was cynical instead of practical and apt
The amount of times I've heard that I'm being talked about behind my back based on information i revealed without thinking is... Well more than once at least
i treat interactions with NT people as PvP.
Probably the most enlightening thing I've heard. It really is like that isn't it
I gave up on that shit long ago, I just don't care. My mom always gives me flack for it, because I'm either loud, or weird, or "inappropriate". Fuck you. I'm going to be direct as fuck or joke about your NT "politeness". Either open yourself up or I'm going to bully you for being a cowardly fake. Do trauma dump, do tell me how actually are you and not that "fine" shit, be forth and honest with me, don't interrupt a liar with "Um, excuse me good sir. It seems your trousers are alight." but with your favorite edition of animal feces (In Poland we say "Gówno prawda" or "Pierdolisz"). I had enough of these social cues and I'll aggressively fight them and struggle against them. I'm not tolerant of them.
I'm polite in my own ways, ways NTs consider "impolite". Well then they don't fucking know impolite.
This comment goes so fucking hard, best Lumalo post I've ever seen twice in one day. Based as hell, I wish I fought against these that hard, I'm too awkward alas. NTs SHOULD be bullied for being cowardly fakes!!Guess I'm just going in hard lately, been mad about a lot of stuff so this is how I vent I suppose. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Also it's literally the next morning for me lol
Wait. May I have AuDHD?
:oh-noes: oh fuck why, maybe that's why my ADHD tends to be really weird
In my experience people who appreciate directness and hate NT social norms to this level tend to be on the spectrum to some degree
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Completely destroyed my own sanity by memorising a complex set of rules and over analysing everything to the point of mental exhaustion only to still get it wrong or be left in such an ambiguous state I can never know the true answer.
The same button never does the same thing twice.
I remember years ago wondering why interaction wasn't deterministic and asking over and over "what is wrong with me" practically to the brink of suicide. Didn't actually figure out I was autistic until recently. Honestly the only thing that helped was becoming racist to NT's and masking only enough to basic interactions and work related shit. I only have 1 NT friend but he's built different and genuinely tries his best to understand me in a way that he can be accommodating to my needs.
I also had a friend who would confuse me with subtext i never understood knowing it confused me then would call me an idiot for not understanding and i just let them do this to me for years.
Grats on the autism discovery!
the only thing that helped was becoming racist to NT's and masking only enough to basic interactions
Uncritical support to your NT friend as well, very cool. I tried the memorisation shit and had to ditch it as well.
Find yourself some similarly ND friends who you can be yourself with. There's probably clubs around
Imagine having friends
I just have really nice people online I'm scared to talk to cuz autism, lmao
I actually don't mind the arbitrary rules that make no fucking sense because most of my rituals themselves are also completely arbitrary that also make no fucking sense if I try to explain it to other people. Even NTs find rituals comforting I guess. I used to despise their arbitrary rules, but now I'm mostly amused by it. For example, NTs respond really well to you saying "bless you" when they're sneezing for some reason. Two simple words means you care a lot about their wellbeing apparently.
Do you project your weird rituals onto other people the way NTs do though? Also at least you are fully honest about your rituals being arbitrary, more than can be said for any NT
Overly Convoluted Social rules feels like a drag to everyone. I feel like people who enforce it just want to feel superior. This guy did a great example of interaction of me wanting to pull my hair cause of the stupid subtly of it. https://youtu.be/IpUYn6ExxGc?5XdTzrPjGMFposa4
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Yo, I can just say, chill. Other people, including NTs, are not important enough to get upset about. Also, sure, interactions are not understandable for you, but they are to them. Who really is "right" then? It doesn't matter. You just gotta accept the reality of it and do the best with it.
I'm right generally, fuck NTs for their utterly incomprehensible social rituals with no logical basis at all.
In this specific case though I'm not hating on anyone, it just bugs me intensely that A) I might be sending signals to people without even knowing it, B) I can't perceive things enough to interact. I do really like people actually, or else I wouldn't spend so much time yapping online =) and fwiw I usually do try not to worry about it.
Just interpreted the "screeching rn" as you being actually upset. If that's not the case, that's good :)
Idk, I experience A+B too, but I just don't really make them my problem. If someone misunderstands something, I just ignore it unless it's something really important, and there are rarely really important things.
Well it does bug me when I get alerted to shit like that plays into REJECTION SENSITIVITY
oh boy!!! Same as not making them my problem, that works great and it's fine for me until they cause a scene about it for whatever reason 
Yep, rejection sucks. Until you understand that they're the problem, not you, then "rejection" is just a good filter for yourself. They're filtering themselves out so you don't have to deal with their shittiness.
All the more when they cause a scene. I usually just walk away. Idk about you, how old you are, which social situation you're in, but it's interesting how much you can just walk away from that you never thought you could. Most of the time they either respect you more or don't try their shit anymore because they know it doesn't work on you.
Anyway, I wish you lots of happiness and good interactions instead :)
great, thanks!
but for neurotypicals.
