And we shouldn't allow this concept to go unchallenged here on Lemmy.
Commenting on an active post is not brigading
Posting a link to something is not brigading
Commenting on something you were linked to is not brigading
The only thing that might be brigading, but isn't because it isn't a real thing, is someone explicitly going, "Hey everyone, go here and harass this person"
It's all fine and good that we have some new rules to keep the peace with other instances but we must fight against 
Wait till the realization sinks in that this is just the normal, organic amount of engagement they get from us because we're by far the most active lemmy instance
I do not log off, I make my enemies log off -The guy from Struggle Session idk it's been years since I listened
People have been saying for years "soon, they will stop soon"
And I just say See you in 3 more years, let us know what you think
As with all internet spaces, eventually Hexbear will grow old and die. And hopefully like a half a dozen even worse communities will grow from the corpse.
Apparently theres a forum that is focused on discussing some anime called "Haibane Renmei" that has been active from the Triassic Era till 2021~
That's a brilliant show so I can see why it would get so much mileage lol
I've tried watching EVA several times but I always give up after a few episodes lol. Just not my thing I suppose.
But it has many feels, and you should check it out.
And people with sub 10 comment accounts will spam blahaj begging to split the largest LGBT communities and no lib over there will question it even though splitting is against everything queers fight for
In retrospect, it's funny how the liberals on lemmy.ml were haughtily saying "This may have been a tankie space once, but we will overwhelm them eventually and make it clear that they aren't welcome here" and then Hexbear comes in and they shit themselves.
they thought the reddit wave would be bigger but it turns out redditors like feeling smug more than actually leaving the corporate walled garden. so they aren't thaaat big and a good % of those who did come here are at least vaguely leftist. That plus hexbear=no more unchallenged "ebil seeseepee" type circlejerks
we have literally spent hours talking about thought terminating cliches, ready to fight them
yeah redditors are used to not having their ideas challenged
Well they quarantined us, like, what, 4 years ago? And The Dickwads was gone before that. All dissenting voices were purged successfully for the most part.
Literally every dog pile I have seen has been some nerd talking shit, a chapo or 2 posting in good faith, the nerd says something extra stupid... nerd gets dog piled.
you see, when I call you a Chinese bot, or fake Russian names I'm being a very reasonable discussion partner
when you call me out for being a weird racist it's brigading, trolling, 4chan, and the type of behavior that needs to be defederated from
Death to Russia = non-political
Death to NATO = I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS TYPE OF COMMENT
also weird that one is a country full of people and the other is an aggressive military alliance, If one died a whole lot of normal people would die, plus some war criminals
if Nato died it'd just be dead war criminals
dead war criminals
Ahem, I believe you mean "People of NATO"
"And Dude, war criminals is not the preferred nomenclature. NATO Americans, please."
Usually its 2-3 chapos calling someone a dipshit lib for posting a bad take, and then someone comes along with an nice effortpost an hour or so later.
Like, i approve of it, people get too used to not being called a dipshit. But newgangs first posters on the scene usually come in hot.
But newgangs first posters on the scene usually come in hot.
New gang has been advised to tell you to talk to our lawyer.
Usually its 2-3 chapos calling someone a dipshit lib for posting a bad take, and then someone comes along with an nice effortpost an hour or so later.
The ol' one-two
I maintain that guy WOULD shit out a better post if he did in fact eat a crayon, and I won't take it back.
It's extremely weird. Like I'm just commenting on what appears on my all page, how is that brigading? It's literally a feature of the website.
Counterpoint: I'm a huge baby.
Didn't think of that one, did ya, pinko!?
Liberals are used to games with rigged rules ("""International Rules Based Order"""🙄) and when the playing field is level it feels to them like everyone else is suddenly cheating
That's how the most of the internet works. The site admins of whatever community impose hegemonic rules about acceptable discourse and then purge everything outside that. It's how we work, it's just that we got rid of all the bigots and shitheads. In a normal community a landlord runs the instance, bans everyone who wants to shoot landlords, and tolerates bigots as long as they don't literally say the N word too many times in a row. Here the hegemony is flipped on it's head - Any kind of bigotry gets you banned fast, and you can actually name names when talking about why society sucks without having to pretend this isn't a knife fight to the death.
The difference is we understand why the conditions in other instances are the way they are, as you’ve laid out. and they think the conditions here are a bot farm, some kind of organized plot, or otherwise illegitimate
They can’t wrap their heads around it so they just yell cheaters!
As usual, liberals just use different words when they like some vs. when they don't. When they don't like it? Brigading! When they do? Just raising concerns, I hate those red fash tankies.
PS they are envious of our knack for a self-organized united front.
Their culture is so snarky and anti-collaboration, they get pissy with each other nearly as much as they do with us, and they don't engage any differently in either case. I really do feel bad for these people who are trapped in the atomized, all against all social paradigm of the new internet.
they get pissy with each other nearly as much as they do with us, and they don't engage any differently in either case
I'm still new to Hexbear and this has been the biggest striking difference for me coming from liberal spaces. I've seen multiple arguments on hexbear, and honestly, I had a hard time at first seeing that they were civil disagreements and not just jokes.
Edit: I think maybe because in the liberal spaces, to open up like that in good faith is just an invitation to get shit on for going outside the norm. Whereas here you'll get engaged with in good faith and it's just a much more positive experience that actually allows for civil disagreement.
I really like not having a downvote button. Keeps the cowards from downvoting and feeling like that did something. Debate your opinion nerds, don't hide.
we do have the downvote emoji
but it's a comment instead of an actual downvote, meaning you're making your disagreement publicly instead of anonymously and opening the floor to further discussion.
Long ago in the Second Age when I was posting with Elf kings and Dwarf lords and all that shit from 20+ years ago I always preferred to actually post rather than do something like block a person. I never used chat filter, never blocked a person (unless they were spamming in a video game). I liked it that way. I really appreciated that we got rid of the downvotes here. I tend to like upvotes because it feels like a nice way of saying "heard and acknowledged" to a post but I also like to actually reply with a "nice post!" or "that's funny!" because it feels so much more sincere and engaged.
What I'm trying to say is I genuinely appreciate the 'culture' we have fostered here. It's a nice place. If anybody calls us a bunch of meanies I'd say just look at the mutual aid comm or the way the mods politely remind people to tone it down if things start to get genuinely heated or how we are anti-sectarian.
I kind of wish there was like a "Thumbs up" button only for comments replying to your comment so you could agree to someone in way that showed you didn't have anything further to say. I mostly just use
For that, which I guess works well.
Yeah! That extra upbear could have come from anyone. I want the person I'm replying to to know it came from me! (I'm speaking for Frank here, hopefully correctly. I think I understand what he's getting at.)
To indulge in irresponsible criticism in private instead of actively putting forward one's suggestions to the organization. To say nothing to people to their faces but to gossip behind their backs, or to say nothing at a meeting but to gossip afterwards. To show no regard at all for the principles of collective life but to follow one's own inclination. This is a second type.
This piece is like the opposite of that CIA (OSS?) manual on wrecking
Great point, a controversial decision at the time but in hindsight 100% correct
I was initially indifferent-to-unconvinced about it but now I think it's one of the all-time great additions alongside pronouns. You still kinda have it because you can just upvote the person in the debate whose opinion you prefer if it gets to the point of debate which is a kind of relative downvote, but people actually having to come out and propose and then defend an objection is much healthier for everybody rather than nurturing silent resentments between users, and you can't just make a bunch of alts to downvote somebody you disagree with, especially for days, weeks, or months after an argument has happened. If you really dislike a person then the block button is there and if they're being bigoted then so is the report button.
Here you can generally assume people will engage with intellectual honesty and intellectual curiosity, not just to "win" an argument but to have a real exchange of ideas that results in potentially both people benefiting. Everything isn't a debate and every conversation does not have a winner and a loser, the goal everyone has here is generally for everyone to be better off.
So much of the 'brigading' is just comrades pointing out and challenging racism or bigotry and agreeing that a reactionary is racist or bigoted. I think its this kind of collaboration that comes off as so offensive to them sometimes; it's not something that any of us have to argue about, so it might always come off as co-ordinated to those who are used to saying whatever tf they like without consequence. Must be strange to be challenged when it's acceptable to be a a conservative or a 'progressive' and a POS throughout most of the western world.
they speak of our hostility and their superiority, and become exactly what they hate when one person challenges them
What would it be like living in a world where anyone who dared to voice bigotry or misogyny or transphobia was immediately dogpiled by everyone around them? Like someone makes a bigoted comment in the grocery store and everyone around starts yelling at them and calling over the rest of the grocery to yell at them? Sure, witchhunts, whatever but god it would be nice living a world where if you encountered a bigot or a fascist or a cop everyone would pile in to help you without having to be asked or having to think about it.
i just want to be able to call the gender stasi when some transphobe starts shit 😔
Their culture is so snarky and anti-collaboration
Seeing their rude commenting styles and nastiness really turned me off from federation at first, but then they started commenting here and it was very cathartic to shit on them!
My favorite thing is when they accuse hexbear of downvote brigading. I've seen it a couple times.
I like when they accuse us of calling them specific insults, and then I can't tell what ones because it's blocked by the filter.
Someone in one of the federation threads posted a screenshot of their comments with negative karma as proof that they were downvoted for comments on Hexbear.
No bro, you could only have downvotes from other federated users, guess your take was that trash.
outside agitators
not coincidentally, a phrase with a long history of anticommunism and reactionary dismissal of working class concerns
"New response time record, boys, 51 minutes! Someday we'll catch someone besides Sting"
-
"New response time record, boys, 51 minutes! Someday we'll catch someone besides Sting"
Brigading is when leftists are the most active posters and the more terminally online they are the more brigading it is.
Folks really haven't grasped that federation means it's not "your community" anymore, you're basically a subreddit now, with all the horrors that entails.
They're really crushing this speed run.
"Were creating a decentralized space where different opinions and people can all interact with each other to whatever extent the users want"
"Hey why are there people here saying that Biden isn't the savior of the working class, clearly this is harassment"
It's 1865 and "outside Agitators" are riling up minorities
It's 1965 and "outside agitators" are riling up minorities
It's 1991 and "outside agitators" are riling up minorities
It's 2020 and "outside agitators" are riling up minorities
I tire of these Democrats. I tire of their dissembling
The liberals are welcome to come in here and "brigade" us as well. We won't complain. We'll just dunk.
And probably get accused of brigading our own threads or something.
Someone on lemm.ee just posted a drama thread with links to several of our comments. If we did that it would be called brigading. It's all projection.
I admire your restraint in not linking it. Did they use those obvious wrecker comments or is it just the usual crying about guillotines?
it's a guy who unironically thinks that america is a democracy and authoritarianism is just another synonym for bad
"Crossposting to an instance I don't like is brigading" and other things libs believe. Brigading as a word is as meaningless as libs calling us tankies. Brigading just means "someone I don't like saw my post"
It's all premised on the idea that liberal thoughts are the only valid ones and multiple anti-liberals must be doing something fishy because what other reason could there be?
This is a bigger part of it than I initially thought. Saw a comment to the effect of "look, I'm a democratic socialist, and I don't know how any modern socialist can support China, so they have to be trolls."
I told the person that used to be me, and referred them to some Parenti that was a big part of understanding how "authoritarian" AES states have supporters. Hope they read a bit.
premised on the idea that liberal thoughts are the only valid ones
reminds me of this good comment from the other day: https://hexbear.net/comment/3736815
There's certainly an attitude of "we should be able to federate with large leftist communities and then spout false right-wing talking points without being challenged >:("
The overton window is a big part of it. They're totally immersed in a world where they're as far left or almost as far left as it's acceptable to go. There's a completely distorted view of politics where most of the electorate in the US genuinely thinks the Democrats are at least somewhere past the center left.
CW: Transphobia, and Nazi-rhetoric
This is what I have used as an example of what "brigading" is and have repeadedly asked the admins for proof of anything remotely close to this on hexbear.
Show
The thing that annoys me is the widespread misconception among the lib instances that Hexbear users are just out there spamming PPB on every other instance, when in reality it's much more common that someone starts calling us hate speech spewing Russian bots or whatever and people start responding to that. Oh no, the consequences of my actions
Anothe thing that happens frequently is someone posts something well-crafted in good faith and then a lib responds ”I'm not reading that Kremlin/Chinese propaganda, troll!”, so who are the ones actually not interested in arguing here?
Well yeah, but it's okay when people call us bots because we're genocide denying turbo tankies. When we take offense we are in the wrong. This is called "Civility".
It's like "Talking back" that adults pull on children. Kids can't figure out what they did wrong because they didn't do anything wrong. Their crime is existing. Our crime is being outside the Overton Window. Nothing we can do will ever be acceptable.
It's like "Talking back" that adults pull on children.
!!! I had somehow forgotten about this phrase, even though it was my most frequent infraction and has shaped all of my dealings with children. It still baffles and hurts me that so many adults would rather get mad at kids for having feelings, opinions, and questions than talk to them like they're actual people.
Literally cannot imagine being this narcissist towards kids now that I'm old. I heard this fucking thing so much growing up
It was so awful. I tried so hard to understand what i was doing wrong and it wasn't until decades later that i realized that i never did anything. "Talking back" just meant being noticed in any way. It's a horrid way to treat people.
I tried so hard to understand what i was doing wrong and it wasn't until decades later that i realized that i never did anything.
ugh, hard relate
They arnt, theyre just interested in silencing us because they dont realize they have extremely conservative tendencies!
They arnt ready or willing to examine their contradictions because they arnt unhappy yet.
I’ve posted PPB exactly twice. Once when someone was whining about “I wish tbe hexbears werent here” and once again when someone said “tankie says what” in response to a well written reply (from a lemmygrad comrade)
tfw your bussy became the 6th Chaos God in the Immaterium
10/10 would worship
Even the reddit admins themselves tried to back away from this. They eventually realised that people sharing links to reddit posts is not a bad thing, and wanted more of it.
The only reason they continued to crack down on it is that there is a historical cultural legacy that was incorrectly fostered around it on the site.
Yeah, it's like drugs. Everyone uses them, but if you keep them nominally illegal you can target enforcement against communities you want to destroy.
I'm sure all my BearBuddies (just threw up in my mouth) know this banger, but for all my FederatedFriends dropping in, this was actually the rationale behind the War on Drugs:
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday.
"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."
That last section is one of many reasons we fly the
flag here.“The 1994 alleged ‘quote’ we saw repeated in social media for the first time today does not square with what we know of our father. And collectively, that spans over 185 years of time with him,” the Ehrlichman family wrote. “We do not subscribe to the alleged racist point of view that this writer now implies 22 years following the so-called interview of John and 16 years following our father’s death, when dad can no longer respond. None of us have raised our kids that way, and that’s because we were not raised that way.”
Doofuses. It'd be racism if he actually believed it. The quote pretty specifically says he knew it was bullshit and did it for political reasons.
culture
looking in through the window
