And we shouldn't allow this concept to go unchallenged here on Lemmy.

Commenting on an active post is not brigading

Posting a link to something is not brigading

Commenting on something you were linked to is not brigading

The only thing that might be brigading, but isn't because it isn't a real thing, is someone explicitly going, "Hey everyone, go here and harass this person"

It's all fine and good that we have some new rules to keep the peace with other instances but we must fight against reddit-logo brainworms

  • AcidSmiley [she/her]
    ·
    1 year ago

    Wait till the realization sinks in that this is just the normal, organic amount of engagement they get from us because we're by far the most active lemmy instance

      • NoYouLogOff [he/him, they/them]
        ·
        1 year ago

        I do not log off, I make my enemies log off -The guy from Struggle Session idk it's been years since I listened

    • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]
      ·
      1 year ago

      People have been saying for years "soon, they will stop soon"

      And I just say See you in 3 more years, let us know what you think

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        As with all internet spaces, eventually Hexbear will grow old and die. And hopefully like a half a dozen even worse communities will grow from the corpse.

        • SuperNovaCouchGuy2 [any]
          ·
          1 year ago

          Apparently theres a forum that is focused on discussing some anime called "Haibane Renmei" that has been active from the Triassic Era till 2021~

              • Ram_The_Manparts [he/him]
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                I've tried watching EVA several times but I always give up after a few episodes lol. Just not my thing I suppose.

                But it has many feels, and you should check it out.

    • kristina [she/her]
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      And people with sub 10 comment accounts will spam blahaj begging to split the largest LGBT communities and no lib over there will question it even though splitting is against everything queers fight for

  • GarbageShoot [he/him]
    ·
    1 year ago

    In retrospect, it's funny how the liberals on lemmy.ml were haughtily saying "This may have been a tankie space once, but we will overwhelm them eventually and make it clear that they aren't welcome here" and then Hexbear comes in and they shit themselves.

    • YearOfTheCommieDesktop [they/them]
      ·
      1 year ago

      they thought the reddit wave would be bigger but it turns out redditors like feeling smug more than actually leaving the corporate walled garden. so they aren't thaaat big and a good % of those who did come here are at least vaguely leftist. That plus hexbear=no more unchallenged "ebil seeseepee" type circlejerks

      • GreenTeaRedFlag [any]
        ·
        1 year ago

        we have literally spent hours talking about thought terminating cliches, ready to fight them

        • Frank [he/him, he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          yeah redditors are used to not having their ideas challenged

          Well they quarantined us, like, what, 4 years ago? And The Dickwads was gone before that. All dissenting voices were purged successfully for the most part.

  • Freeanotherday [he/him, they/them]
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Literally every dog pile I have seen has been some nerd talking shit, a chapo or 2 posting in good faith, the nerd says something extra stupid... nerd gets dog piled.

    • DoiDoi [comrade/them, he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      you see, when I call you a Chinese bot, or fake Russian names I'm being a very reasonable discussion partner

      when you call me out for being a weird racist it's brigading, trolling, 4chan, and the type of behavior that needs to be defederated from

      • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        Death to Russia = non-political

        Death to NATO = I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS TYPE OF COMMENT

        • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]
          ·
          1 year ago

          also weird that one is a country full of people and the other is an aggressive military alliance, If one died a whole lot of normal people would die, plus some war criminals

          if Nato died it'd just be dead war criminals

    • Zoift [he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Usually its 2-3 chapos calling someone a dipshit lib for posting a bad take, and then someone comes along with an nice effortpost an hour or so later.

      Like, i approve of it, people get too used to not being called a dipshit. But newgangs first posters on the scene usually come in hot.

      • Freeanotherday [he/him, they/them]
        ·
        1 year ago

        But newgangs first posters on the scene usually come in hot.

        New gang has been advised to tell you to talk to our lawyer.

      • chair [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        Usually its 2-3 chapos calling someone a dipshit lib for posting a bad take, and then someone comes along with an nice effortpost an hour or so later.

        The ol' one-two

      • MemesAreTheory [he/him, any]
        ·
        1 year ago

        I maintain that guy WOULD shit out a better post if he did in fact eat a crayon, and I won't take it back.

  • aaaaaaadjsf [he/him, comrade/them]
    ·
    1 year ago

    It's extremely weird. Like I'm just commenting on what appears on my all page, how is that brigading? It's literally a feature of the website.

    • Maoo [none/use name]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Counterpoint: I'm a huge baby.

      Didn't think of that one, did ya, pinko!?

    • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Liberals are used to games with rigged rules ("""International Rules Based Order"""🙄) and when the playing field is level it feels to them like everyone else is suddenly cheating

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        That's how the most of the internet works. The site admins of whatever community impose hegemonic rules about acceptable discourse and then purge everything outside that. It's how we work, it's just that we got rid of all the bigots and shitheads. In a normal community a landlord runs the instance, bans everyone who wants to shoot landlords, and tolerates bigots as long as they don't literally say the N word too many times in a row. Here the hegemony is flipped on it's head - Any kind of bigotry gets you banned fast, and you can actually name names when talking about why society sucks without having to pretend this isn't a knife fight to the death.

        • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          The difference is we understand why the conditions in other instances are the way they are, as you’ve laid out. and they think the conditions here are a bot farm, some kind of organized plot, or otherwise illegitimate

          They can’t wrap their heads around it so they just yell cheaters!

  • Maoo [none/use name]
    ·
    1 year ago

    As usual, liberals just use different words when they like some vs. when they don't. When they don't like it? Brigading! When they do? Just raising concerns, I hate those red fash tankies.

    PS they are envious of our knack for a self-organized united front.

    • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Their culture is so snarky and anti-collaboration, they get pissy with each other nearly as much as they do with us, and they don't engage any differently in either case. I really do feel bad for these people who are trapped in the atomized, all against all social paradigm of the new internet.

      • charlie
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        they get pissy with each other nearly as much as they do with us, and they don't engage any differently in either case

        I'm still new to Hexbear and this has been the biggest striking difference for me coming from liberal spaces. I've seen multiple arguments on hexbear, and honestly, I had a hard time at first seeing that they were civil disagreements and not just jokes.

        Edit: I think maybe because in the liberal spaces, to open up like that in good faith is just an invitation to get shit on for going outside the norm. Whereas here you'll get engaged with in good faith and it's just a much more positive experience that actually allows for civil disagreement.

          • charlie
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I really like not having a downvote button. Keeps the cowards from downvoting and feeling like that did something. Debate your opinion nerds, don't hide.

            • Alaskaball [comrade/them]A
              ·
              1 year ago

              we do have the downvote emoji downbear

              but it's a comment instead of an actual downvote, meaning you're making your disagreement publicly instead of anonymously and opening the floor to further discussion.

              • GrouchyGrouse [he/him]
                ·
                1 year ago

                Long ago in the Second Age when I was posting with Elf kings and Dwarf lords and all that shit from 20+ years ago I always preferred to actually post rather than do something like block a person. I never used chat filter, never blocked a person (unless they were spamming in a video game). I liked it that way. I really appreciated that we got rid of the downvotes here. I tend to like upvotes because it feels like a nice way of saying "heard and acknowledged" to a post but I also like to actually reply with a "nice post!" or "that's funny!" because it feels so much more sincere and engaged.

                What I'm trying to say is I genuinely appreciate the 'culture' we have fostered here. It's a nice place. If anybody calls us a bunch of meanies I'd say just look at the mutual aid comm or the way the mods politely remind people to tone it down if things start to get genuinely heated or how we are anti-sectarian.

                • Frank [he/him, he/him]
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I kind of wish there was like a "Thumbs up" button only for comments replying to your comment so you could agree to someone in way that showed you didn't have anything further to say. I mostly just use

                  rat-salute-2

                  For that, which I guess works well.

            • PorkrollPosadist [he/him, they/them]M
              ·
              1 year ago

              To indulge in irresponsible criticism in private instead of actively putting forward one's suggestions to the organization. To say nothing to people to their faces but to gossip behind their backs, or to say nothing at a meeting but to gossip afterwards. To show no regard at all for the principles of collective life but to follow one's own inclination. This is a second type.

              mao-wave

              • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
                ·
                1 year ago

                This piece is like the opposite of that CIA (OSS?) manual on wrecking

            • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
              ·
              1 year ago

              Great point, a controversial decision at the time but in hindsight 100% correct

            • SeventyTwoTrillion [he/him]
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              I was initially indifferent-to-unconvinced about it but now I think it's one of the all-time great additions alongside pronouns. You still kinda have it because you can just upvote the person in the debate whose opinion you prefer if it gets to the point of debate which is a kind of relative downvote, but people actually having to come out and propose and then defend an objection is much healthier for everybody rather than nurturing silent resentments between users, and you can't just make a bunch of alts to downvote somebody you disagree with, especially for days, weeks, or months after an argument has happened. If you really dislike a person then the block button is there and if they're being bigoted then so is the report button.

        • Awoo [she/her]
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Here you can generally assume people will engage with intellectual honesty and intellectual curiosity, not just to "win" an argument but to have a real exchange of ideas that results in potentially both people benefiting. Everything isn't a debate and every conversation does not have a winner and a loser, the goal everyone has here is generally for everyone to be better off.

      • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
        ·
        1 year ago

        So much of the 'brigading' is just comrades pointing out and challenging racism or bigotry and agreeing that a reactionary is racist or bigoted. I think its this kind of collaboration that comes off as so offensive to them sometimes; it's not something that any of us have to argue about, so it might always come off as co-ordinated to those who are used to saying whatever tf they like without consequence. Must be strange to be challenged when it's acceptable to be a a conservative or a 'progressive' and a POS throughout most of the western world.

        • Frank [he/him, he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          What would it be like living in a world where anyone who dared to voice bigotry or misogyny or transphobia was immediately dogpiled by everyone around them? Like someone makes a bigoted comment in the grocery store and everyone around starts yelling at them and calling over the rest of the grocery to yell at them? Sure, witchhunts, whatever but god it would be nice living a world where if you encountered a bigot or a fascist or a cop everyone would pile in to help you without having to be asked or having to think about it.

          • GenderIsOpSec [she/her]
            ·
            1 year ago

            i just want to be able to call the gender stasi when some transphobe starts shit 😔

      • SuperNovaCouchGuy2 [any]
        ·
        1 year ago

        Their culture is so snarky and anti-collaboration

        Seeing their rude commenting styles and nastiness really turned me off from federation at first, but then they started commenting here and it was very cathartic to shit on them!

  • beef_curds [she/her]
    ·
    1 year ago

    My favorite thing is when they accuse hexbear of downvote brigading. I've seen it a couple times.

    • GreenTeaRedFlag [any]
      ·
      1 year ago

      I like when they accuse us of calling them specific insults, and then I can't tell what ones because it's blocked by the filter.

    • GreatWhiteNope [she/her]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Someone in one of the federation threads posted a screenshot of their comments with negative karma as proof that they were downvoted for comments on Hexbear.

      No bro, you could only have downvotes from other federated users, guess your take was that trash.

  • KobaCumTribute [she/her]
    ·
    1 year ago

    Brigading is when leftists are the most active posters and the more terminally online they are the more brigading it is.

  • Frank [he/him, he/him]
    ·
    1 year ago

    Folks really haven't grasped that federation means it's not "your community" anymore, you're basically a subreddit now, with all the horrors that entails.

    • Adkml [he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      They're really crushing this speed run.

      "Were creating a decentralized space where different opinions and people can all interact with each other to whatever extent the users want"

      "Hey why are there people here saying that Biden isn't the savior of the working class, clearly this is harassment"

        • Frank [he/him, he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          It's 1865 and "outside Agitators" are riling up minorities

          It's 1965 and "outside agitators" are riling up minorities

          It's 1991 and "outside agitators" are riling up minorities

          It's 2020 and "outside agitators" are riling up minorities

          I tire of these Democrats. I tire of their dissembling

          manhattan

    • TomBombadil [he/him, she/her]
      ·
      1 year ago

      The liberals are welcome to come in here and "brigade" us as well. We won't complain. We'll just dunk.

      And probably get accused of brigading our own threads or something.

  • FederateMeHardDaddy [he/him]
    ·
    1 year ago

    Someone on lemm.ee just posted a drama thread with links to several of our comments. If we did that it would be called brigading. It's all projection.

    • GarbageShoot [he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      I admire your restraint in not linking it. Did they use those obvious wrecker comments or is it just the usual crying about guillotines?

      • meth_dragon [none/use name]
        ·
        1 year ago

        it's a guy who unironically thinks that america is a democracy and authoritarianism is just another synonym for bad

  • SootyChimney [any]
    ·
    1 year ago

    There's certainly an attitude of "we should be able to federate with large leftist communities and then spout false right-wing talking points without being challenged >:("

    • Frank [he/him, he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      The overton window is a big part of it. They're totally immersed in a world where they're as far left or almost as far left as it's acceptable to go. There's a completely distorted view of politics where most of the electorate in the US genuinely thinks the Democrats are at least somewhere past the center left.

  • Infamousblt [any]
    ·
    1 year ago

    "Crossposting to an instance I don't like is brigading" and other things libs believe. Brigading as a word is as meaningless as libs calling us tankies. Brigading just means "someone I don't like saw my post"

    • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
      ·
      1 year ago

      It's all premised on the idea that liberal thoughts are the only valid ones and multiple anti-liberals must be doing something fishy because what other reason could there be?

      • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        This is a bigger part of it than I initially thought. Saw a comment to the effect of "look, I'm a democratic socialist, and I don't know how any modern socialist can support China, so they have to be trolls."

        I told the person that used to be me, and referred them to some Parenti that was a big part of understanding how "authoritarian" AES states have supporters. Hope they read a bit.

      • bigboopballs [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        premised on the idea that liberal thoughts are the only valid ones

        reminds me of this good comment from the other day: https://hexbear.net/comment/3736815

  • CARCOSA [mirror/your pronouns]A
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    CW: Transphobia, and Nazi-rhetoric

    This is what I have used as an example of what "brigading" is and have repeadedly asked the admins for proof of anything remotely close to this on hexbear.

    Show

  • BelieveRevolt [he/him]
    ·
    1 year ago

    The thing that annoys me is the widespread misconception among the lib instances that Hexbear users are just out there spamming PPB on every other instance, when in reality it's much more common that someone starts calling us hate speech spewing Russian bots or whatever and people start responding to that. Oh no, the consequences of my actions angery

    Anothe thing that happens frequently is someone posts something well-crafted in good faith and then a lib responds ”I'm not reading that Kremlin/Chinese propaganda, troll!”, so who are the ones actually not interested in arguing here?

    • Frank [he/him, he/him]
      ·
      1 year ago

      Well yeah, but it's okay when people call us bots because we're genocide denying turbo tankies. When we take offense we are in the wrong. This is called "Civility".

      It's like "Talking back" that adults pull on children. Kids can't figure out what they did wrong because they didn't do anything wrong. Their crime is existing. Our crime is being outside the Overton Window. Nothing we can do will ever be acceptable.

      • the_itsb [she/her, comrade/them]
        ·
        1 year ago

        It's like "Talking back" that adults pull on children.

        !!! I had somehow forgotten about this phrase, even though it was my most frequent infraction and has shaped all of my dealings with children. It still baffles and hurts me that so many adults would rather get mad at kids for having feelings, opinions, and questions than talk to them like they're actual people.

        • SerLava [he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          Literally cannot imagine being this narcissist towards kids now that I'm old. I heard this fucking thing so much growing up

          • Frank [he/him, he/him]
            ·
            1 year ago

            It was so awful. I tried so hard to understand what i was doing wrong and it wasn't until decades later that i realized that i never did anything. "Talking back" just meant being noticed in any way. It's a horrid way to treat people.

            • the_itsb [she/her, comrade/them]
              ·
              1 year ago

              I tried so hard to understand what i was doing wrong and it wasn't until decades later that i realized that i never did anything.

              ugh, hard relate

    • Biggay [he/him, comrade/them]
      ·
      1 year ago

      They arnt, theyre just interested in silencing us because they dont realize they have extremely conservative tendencies!

      They arnt ready or willing to examine their contradictions because they arnt unhappy yet.

    • MultigrainCerealista [he/him, comrade/them]
      ·
      1 year ago

      I’ve posted PPB exactly twice. Once when someone was whining about “I wish tbe hexbears werent here” and once again when someone said “tankie says what” in response to a well written reply (from a lemmygrad comrade)

    • Twink
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      deleted by creator

    • MCU_H8ER2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Removed by mod

  • Awoo [she/her]
    ·
    1 year ago

    Even the reddit admins themselves tried to back away from this. They eventually realised that people sharing links to reddit posts is not a bad thing, and wanted more of it.

    The only reason they continued to crack down on it is that there is a historical cultural legacy that was incorrectly fostered around it on the site.

      • 420blazeit69 [he/him]
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        Yeah, it's like drugs. Everyone uses them, but if you keep them nominally illegal you can target enforcement against communities you want to destroy.

        I'm sure all my BearBuddies (just threw up in my mouth) know this banger, but for all my FederatedFriends dropping in, this was actually the rationale behind the War on Drugs:

        "The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday.

        "You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities," Ehrlichman said. "We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."

        That last section is one of many reasons we fly the amerikkka flag here.

        • Frank [he/him, he/him]
          ·
          1 year ago

          “The 1994 alleged ‘quote’ we saw repeated in social media for the first time today does not square with what we know of our father. And collectively, that spans over 185 years of time with him,” the Ehrlichman family wrote. “We do not subscribe to the alleged racist point of view that this writer now implies 22 years following the so-called interview of John and 16 years following our father’s death, when dad can no longer respond. None of us have raised our kids that way, and that’s because we were not raised that way.”

          Doofuses. It'd be racism if he actually believed it. The quote pretty specifically says he knew it was bullshit and did it for political reasons.