https://lemmy.world/post/22802143
Transcript:
(Context: lemmy.world/c/support post)
Title: Moderation not keeping up with influx of violent rhetoric following the assassination of the UHC CEO.
I am seeing a huge increase in posts and comments that incite violence, make threats of violence against specific people, or that celebrate real-world instances of violence and murder. There are hundreds of comments on this instance posted over the past day that brazenly violate rule #1 “We do not tolerate threats of and calls for violence in any form against any living creature”.
Many offending comments have been dealt with by mods, but some mods are seemingly allowing this violent rhetoric in their respective sub-communities. There are many active threads about the UHC CEO right now on lemmy.world that are filled with violent rule-breaking comments, and very little visible moderation.
Given that the mods are either unable or unwilling to enforce this most fundamental content rule, when can we expect the admins to get involved and start handing out bans to the users that have been celebrating murder and inciting more violence? It’s pretty out of control right now, and I’m betting that the admins could find themselves in hot water with the authorities if this continues to go unchecked.
There are hundreds of comments on this instance posted over the past day that brazenly violate rule #1 “We do not tolerate threats of and calls for violence in any form against any living creature”.
Ok, but how does "any living creature" apply to the UHC CEO?
Oh, .world must be an even better vegan instance than here, right? Right?
plants are a living creature, so they have to be breatharian
His heart is roughly the same temperature it was before, I'd imagine.
They clearly aren't even violating the rules.
Celebrating violence is not a threat or call to violence. Those are totally different things.
This is what civility does to your brain. 😞
also someone who is dead is not "any living creature" Interesting bacteria and guinea worms ... and plants do fall into any living creatures... so the rule says calling for a harvist, calling for anti-biotics, and calling for the end of Guiea worms are aggenst TOS
How long does it take for full cellular death to complete? There may be a few cells hanging on somewhere in that corpse
Fun fact, it doesn't. Not if you consider yourself right now as human. Most of your cells in your body have none of your DNA, and without them youd die a horrible, painful, ridiculously hideous death. Many of those nonhuman cells evolved to exclusively cohabitate human Bodies, but many still can live outside the human body for days or weeks. In this way it's likely some lineage of cells from any arbitrary dead person is still alive.
But if you mean human cells, less than 24 Hours without host function, assuming a neutral temperature and no remaining feeder or transport cells for any given cell type.
Finger on the pulse of the people around me IRL (Coworkers, family, etc). Literally no one, not the never-trump republicans, not the "Supported Joe Biden BEFORE the primary" liberals, not one person thinks it was regrettable that this guy got shot, or is wringing their hands about it. This is substantially different from other similar incidents.
My mother-in-law scolded my wife for laughing about it in an instagram post. "A person is dead, how can you write something so hateful. You are condoning violence!".
I said to just reply with a screenshot of all of her posts about marginalized people, immigrants, or Palestinians lol. But also like why the fuck does she give a shit, American peasant mentality is wild.
'How dare you speak ill of mi'lord, he allows me a plot of land to live on and farm for him!'
"My noble lord, our town is besieged by terrible barbarians, please send aid!"Medieval CEO pulls out an abacus, starts consulting a table of numbers.
'Regrettably, this particular type of invasion is not covered under your serfdom plan. Please have a nice day!"
A peasant's a petty-proprietor, and its equivalent are small-business people/petty-bourgeois (both in class position and interests)
According to them, next its the king, next its me...
Similar in the U.K. and other countries, if it makes you feel any worse?
Closest I've heard to hand wringing IRL is "He deserved it, but....".
What a blessed day it was. Thankfully people, IRL and otherwise, don't really seem to be turning to condemnation.
I'm certain I could find someone, but organically I have not heard any hand wringing yet either
Lenin forgot to mention that adventurism is cool because it makes all the liberals show their ass with hand wringing.
Adventurists, I apologize, you were right.
Seriously though, hexbears, still don't start doing adventurism. ORGANIZE AND AGITATE. A mass movement is the only way things will change.
Adventurism being cool is one of it's big downsides. If it wasn't rad as hell it wouldn't call to us so much
It's seductively easy for individuals, and unfortunately easier than organizing. It's as much a trap as a tactic.
Adventuristviolence + mass movement --> liberation armyYes, and the organizing is hard which is why we should be doing it. Leave the easy mode stuff to the casuals. Anyone with proper opsec can become an adventurist, but chads form a disciplined movement.
Also, fused to a movement it isn't adventurist anymore really...
As much as it pains me to say this, you're correct.
I'm reading the text from Lenin right now, and happened upon this (which I'll post in the impromptu reading group later)
We are presented with the theory of big work and petty work. “Let not those who have greater strength, greater opportunities and resolution rest content with petty [!] work; let them find and devote themselves to a big cause—the propaganda of terrorism among the masses [!l, the preparation of the intricate... [the theory of elusiveness is already forgotten!]... terrorist ventures." How amazingly clever this is in all truth: to sacrifice the Life of a revolutionary for the sake of wreaking vengeance on the scoundrel Sipyagin, who is then replaced by the scoundrel Plehve—that is big work.
Lenin, critiquing the SR's, notes that praising adventurism is basically "Great man theory" dressed up in a coat. We should reverse this - the real great work of organizing is not easy, not noble, but way more important.
This, to @AmericaDelendaEst@hexbear.net is why we should still scold adventurists (sorry comrade) - it's not that it's not cool - IT IS COOL. But the coolness comes at the expense of the REAL ENERGY we should put into organizing. It's basically that this stuff often comes at the expense of real action. Everyone wants to feel like the cool lone wolf adventurist, but no one wants to do the work of actual organizing.
We can recognize this as cool, but unless United Healthcare dissolves tomorrow, this action won't mean anything on its own. I WANT to be proven wrong, btw. Own me, please - I want this to be the beginning of a movement, a
for the US.However, even if that's the case, organizing is going to be the real end goal.
it doesn't have to be either/or and you don't have to pretend it has no effect (when we're literally discussing the effects as they are occurring!) in order to support organizing. There's no "taking" of energy, like, what? How can an event which is presently inspiring thousands to discuss it and the evils of American healthcare "taking energy"? It is literally galvanizing discussion. And that isn't "great man theory," it's literally just having open eyes and ears witnessing how people are reacting.
and nobody has "given up their life" yet, the guy got away. So far.
I do think it makes sense for communists specifically to abstain from adventurism, especially this early in things. We’re the best equipped to actually build an ideologically principled movement. Our movements face enough heat without being tied to adventurism, and also adventurism probably has a bigger impact when the perpetrator is perceived as a regular person and not an agent of a radical political movement.
Van Spronsen did. We have our martyrs, even if they’re few. It’s the difference between destroying ICE and shooting up their parking lot
Its so unfortunate that adventurism looks and feels so fucking rad while being so easy
Oh no, not the authorities! We have to self censor to appease them even though they don’t know this stupid website even exists
Open up, it's the low traffic website police. We heard that people said mean words about CEOs.
"the admins could find themselves in hot water with the authorities"Well, I'm sure there like a half dozen Air Force guys, and we probably have at least one FBI or CIA agent keeping tabs on the front page, at least
I like to imagine there is a file somewhere that documents every single dirt_owl post.
What do you wanna bet this exact user has called Russian people orcs and celebrated drone footage of them dying sometime in the last 2 years?
Fair’s fair, they did call out people for using the orcs slur. Still condescending and patronizing towards the average Russian and quote a death toll that had got to be grossly overestimated.
Ah OK, more of a liberal ideals guy than a dogs of the US empire guy
Dang it must suck to be one of these civility-obsessed losers while I'm over here partying the fuck down
This user is waaaaaaay too invested in this crusade, like beyond just civility lib. Elsewhere they are:
- Posting pictures of the guy's wife and kids to people making jokes and telling them to look into the eyes of his family and then say it again
- Defending this guy's reputation as 'not even a billionaire' by posting some apparently exact net worth for the guy (unsourced too of course)
- They're a a Lemmy is probably doomed because it was built by unhinged tankies poster while also simultaneously being a we've got to save Lemmy from incivility poster.
God I wish I could actually look in his family's eyes and tell them I'm glad their father is dead. If they had any humanity, they would agree with me.
A lot of the early rush to defense coverage was about them getting death threats (that was supposed to be an example of what they put up with rather than, 'maybe you shoud take a fucking hint') and the quote from his wife was (and I very lightly paraphrase, not exact syntax) "I don't know, something about denial of coverage."
This has been neatly scrubbed and the SEO muddied for media organisations that all quote her as saying the killing was "senseless". This is the new, PR crisis team written quote in full...
We are shattered to hear about the senseless killing of our beloved Brian. Brian was an incredibly loving, generous, talented man who truly lived life to the fullest and touched so many lives. Most importantly, Brian was an incredibly loving father to our two sons and will be greatly missed. We appreciate your well wishes and request complete privacy as our family moves through this difficult time.
the admins could find themselves in hot water with the authorities
What a sniveling narc
People who say this act like "hot water with the authorities" is like a weather condition that just happens, but in reality these unlikable snitch-ass losers are usually the reason the authorities find out about anything.
Getting arrested for the crime of letting other people say things that are completely legal to say
Me, smugly posting "fuck around and find out" in response to violence sanctioned by the powers of government and press.
Me, condescendingly using euphemisms like "collateral damage" when I find out innocent civilians were killed in that sanctioned violence.
Me, pragmatically reminding everyone of how violence begets violence and that both sides' violence is wrong when I get called out.
Me, serenely steering the conversation towards thoughts and prayers in an attempt to gain moral high ground.
Me, judging you for sticking to your points while I drift further and further into lofty abstraction and moralism.
Hell yeah its liberalism time.
I'm sure they'd be just as concerned about this rule if 'putler' got merked too, right??
That's the day they'll suddenly understand what social murder is, but only for him
the like vague threat of getting pigs involved truly is the cherry on this rancid libshit sundae
"If we think you threatened the people who threaten to grind up the poor, we'll send in the pigs to kidnap, imprison, or kill you!"
violence and murder is only okay if it's systemic and on a massive scale smh, you dumb commies didn't know that?
Imagine having a struggle session about whether Health Care CEOs have a right to exist.
Yes
