Still don't know why the goal isn't to get Pelosi out for someone friendlier to progressives but I'm just one of the violents she mentioned so don't worry about me
I mean it is, AOC and the squad have said as much. I think the prevailing idea right now is that if the Squad forced Pelosi out, she'd get replaced by someone worse (and thirty years younger...) becasue there are still more shitheels than comrades in the House Dem delegation. Whether you agree with her is shrug, but the progressives seem to believe they don't have the votes to get someone better than Pelosi right now.
I just don't understand why progressives aim so low. This seems like a pretty good win (I don't understand how it works but not a bad win) but it seems kinda....not enough? Considering how much power house progressives have now?
Idk I wish they'd get something more out of their speaker vote.
Considering how much power house progressives have now?
They don't have that much power, though. They can't get M4A passed, they can't get the Green New Deal passed, they can't get stimulus checks passed, they can't get student debt forgiveness passed, they can't shut down military bases, etc., etc., etc.
There are 8 progressives in the House now. That's enough to pressure the remaining ~200 Democrats in a few preliminary areas, but it's not enough to boss those ~200 Democrats around.
But they don't really fight for anything either. Like AOC lost a committee seat.
The main reason I "support" this force the vote thing isn't for a symbolic vote on M4A or to see who actually supports it (we already know). It's really just because I want to see them fight the establishment. Otherwise I really don't see how they differ from Pelosi.
Idk I feel like them fighting won't hurt them any and might actually make people like them more and get more of them elected. Worked for the Tea Party. And they got Boehner to retire.
Honestly this is the only #ForceTheVote argument I have a lot of respect for. I think there are some key things that AOC does that distinguish her from Pelosi - most notably she literally does boots-on-the-ground mutual aid in her district while Pelosi talks about ice cream in her $20k fridge. She's called on Pelosi and Schumer to both retire (and IIRC Pelosi promised to retire by 2022, although that was from before AOC took office). Regardless, there is a need for shock-and-awe style tactics in addition to the wonkery that the left accomplished here, even if I firmly believe what the Squad did here is much more significant than ForceTheVote . I hope to see the Squad and the left do more things like sit-ins and organized protests against corporate Dems, because we need that kind of fight in them.
I think a lot of people make the Tea Party comparison without remembering that the Tea Party started with at least twice the number of Congressional reps as the Squad had plus the Tea Party had access to unlimited Koch Brothers money plus friendly Fox News hosts. The left has neither money pools nor friends in the mainstream media; what we're trying to accomplish is a thousand times more difficult than what the Tea Party did.
The main reason I “support” this force the vote thing isn’t for a symbolic vote on M4A or to see who actually supports it (we already know). It’s really just because I want to see them fight the establishment. Otherwise I really don’t see how they differ from Pelosi.
Honestly this is the only #ForceTheVote argument I have a lot of respect for.
If you talk to anyone Force the Vote organizing spaces, they will tell you this is the goal. I feel like I'm going insane. You just live for Twitter drama.
It’s really just because I want to see them fight the establishment.
I don't see how this is anything besides demanding performative politics. You know it won't accomplish anything. You know they don't even have the power to accomplish what you're asking. But you want them to put on a show anyways?
Yeah I guess. Probably just looking for something to feel hopeful for in this hellword.
I just don't think they'll fight when it actually matters. Like when the next CARES comes about are they just gonna roll over when they could hold it up? Idk. Kinda feel like they will.
But they don’t really fight for anything either. Like AOC lost a committee seat.
And one reason she lost that committee seat was Henry Cuellar opposing her, that guy was hit with a primary challenger who AOC endorsed who got 48% of the vote. She could possible agree to not give out endorsements to primary challengers in exchange for a seat
They don't have government power, but they have people power - and not just passive support, activists and demonstrators. Start a public fight - attract media attention, point out poll results and rallies in support. Call out Breonna Taylor's killers or Jeffrey Epstein or just the fact that the economy is in the toilet. The public is not with the establishment - the public's mad.
Start a public fight - attract media attention, point out poll results and rallies in support. Call out Breonna Taylor’s killers or Jeffrey Epstein or just the fact that the economy is in the toilet.
I'm all for this, because this is stuff they can actually do. The issue I have is when people start slamming them for stuff they that's not actually within their power.
she’d get replaced by someone worse (and thirty years younger…)
Or the rest of the Democrats would keep pushing Pelosi, and with no majority there would be no Speaker, and my understanding is that would grind Congress to a halt. At that point all public anger about congressional inaction would be laid at the feet of progressives.
It goes till they get a speaker. I think in the 20s they had a house speaker ship take 40+ ballots. Eventually some dem will become speaker and any dem is better than Pelosi.
They almost lost the house by the gop just running anti Pelosi ads. She is a huge negative.
I think in the 20s they had a house speaker ship take 40+ ballots.
Precedent from the 1920s is worth very little. I see no reason why they wouldn't just nominate Pelosi a few times, get no Speaker, and then sit on their hands and grandstand about how progressives are shutting down the government during a pandemic. Certainly no one is forcing them to keep voting at gunpoint.
any dem is better than Pelosi
As the comment above me pointed out, a Speaker who acts as Pelosi does but is 30 years younger and is less of a lightning rod would be worse.
First off. The next speaker will not stay as long as Pelosi. The party is in a death spiral mostly due to her poor leadership.
2nd. That's the rules on how the house operates. The speaker doesn't even have to be a member of the house. But they must have a speaker to operate and they will be under immense donor pressure to figure it out.
I mean I'm assuming we still have a functioning government that has been operating the same as it has when Republicans where picking speaker. So I think the rules matter as the empire still stands.
Speaker ship changes. Republicans have had squabbles over it.
"Rules matter" is a scorching hot take in 2021. They don't even have to break any rules in the scenario I outlined -- they can just do a few failed votes and then go to the media about it instead of locking themselves in a room and doing it all over again.
Because no one is running against Pelosi currently. I assume that's because 2022 is her last term as speaker and there will be a large competition then
Didn't she say last term was her last term as Speaker? And why isn't anyone running? Pretty spineless of the Justice/progressive wing to not even do a nominal challenge.
That's not a good thing though and certainly not an excuse for no one to challenge her. The Dems are barely holding onto a majority in the House and Pelosi has been a horrible leader. They need change now, but they're just going to wait for her to leave on her own in another year? Sure as hell hope the Dems appreciate that slim lead in the House because I'm sure its not going to survive the 2022 midterms.
Still don't know why the goal isn't to get Pelosi out for someone friendlier to progressives but I'm just one of the violents she mentioned so don't worry about me
I mean it is, AOC and the squad have said as much. I think the prevailing idea right now is that if the Squad forced Pelosi out, she'd get replaced by someone worse (and thirty years younger...) becasue there are still more shitheels than comrades in the House Dem delegation. Whether you agree with her is shrug, but the progressives seem to believe they don't have the votes to get someone better than Pelosi right now.
I just don't understand why progressives aim so low. This seems like a pretty good win (I don't understand how it works but not a bad win) but it seems kinda....not enough? Considering how much power house progressives have now?
Idk I wish they'd get something more out of their speaker vote.
They don't have that much power, though. They can't get M4A passed, they can't get the Green New Deal passed, they can't get stimulus checks passed, they can't get student debt forgiveness passed, they can't shut down military bases, etc., etc., etc.
There are 8 progressives in the House now. That's enough to pressure the remaining ~200 Democrats in a few preliminary areas, but it's not enough to boss those ~200 Democrats around.
Yeah I know.
But they don't really fight for anything either. Like AOC lost a committee seat.
The main reason I "support" this force the vote thing isn't for a symbolic vote on M4A or to see who actually supports it (we already know). It's really just because I want to see them fight the establishment. Otherwise I really don't see how they differ from Pelosi.
Idk I feel like them fighting won't hurt them any and might actually make people like them more and get more of them elected. Worked for the Tea Party. And they got Boehner to retire.
Just want to see more fight I guess.
Honestly this is the only #ForceTheVote argument I have a lot of respect for. I think there are some key things that AOC does that distinguish her from Pelosi - most notably she literally does boots-on-the-ground mutual aid in her district while Pelosi talks about ice cream in her $20k fridge. She's called on Pelosi and Schumer to both retire (and IIRC Pelosi promised to retire by 2022, although that was from before AOC took office). Regardless, there is a need for shock-and-awe style tactics in addition to the wonkery that the left accomplished here, even if I firmly believe what the Squad did here is much more significant than ForceTheVote . I hope to see the Squad and the left do more things like sit-ins and organized protests against corporate Dems, because we need that kind of fight in them.
I think a lot of people make the Tea Party comparison without remembering that the Tea Party started with at least twice the number of Congressional reps as the Squad had plus the Tea Party had access to unlimited Koch Brothers money plus friendly Fox News hosts. The left has neither money pools nor friends in the mainstream media; what we're trying to accomplish is a thousand times more difficult than what the Tea Party did.
If you talk to anyone Force the Vote organizing spaces, they will tell you this is the goal. I feel like I'm going insane. You just live for Twitter drama.
I don't see how this is anything besides demanding performative politics. You know it won't accomplish anything. You know they don't even have the power to accomplish what you're asking. But you want them to put on a show anyways?
Yeah I guess. Probably just looking for something to feel hopeful for in this hellword.
I just don't think they'll fight when it actually matters. Like when the next CARES comes about are they just gonna roll over when they could hold it up? Idk. Kinda feel like they will.
And one reason she lost that committee seat was Henry Cuellar opposing her, that guy was hit with a primary challenger who AOC endorsed who got 48% of the vote. She could possible agree to not give out endorsements to primary challengers in exchange for a seat
They don't have government power, but they have people power - and not just passive support, activists and demonstrators. Start a public fight - attract media attention, point out poll results and rallies in support. Call out Breonna Taylor's killers or Jeffrey Epstein or just the fact that the economy is in the toilet. The public is not with the establishment - the public's mad.
I'm all for this, because this is stuff they can actually do. The issue I have is when people start slamming them for stuff they that's not actually within their power.
Perfectly fair. Don't "slam" them - but do tell them that you want them to do more. That helps them make their case.
Or the rest of the Democrats would keep pushing Pelosi, and with no majority there would be no Speaker, and my understanding is that would grind Congress to a halt. At that point all public anger about congressional inaction would be laid at the feet of progressives.
Wrong
It goes till they get a speaker. I think in the 20s they had a house speaker ship take 40+ ballots. Eventually some dem will become speaker and any dem is better than Pelosi.
They almost lost the house by the gop just running anti Pelosi ads. She is a huge negative.
plenty are more conservative
ANY DEM IS Better. From a pure strategical standpoint any dem is better than Nancy. The country hates her more than trump.
ok from that point sure
Instead of force the vote I just want kick her out.
convince someone to run for Speaker
Brace for speaker!
Bill burr
Don't you think the propaganda machine will make your country hate the next speaker almost as much as Pelosi?
Precedent from the 1920s is worth very little. I see no reason why they wouldn't just nominate Pelosi a few times, get no Speaker, and then sit on their hands and grandstand about how progressives are shutting down the government during a pandemic. Certainly no one is forcing them to keep voting at gunpoint.
As the comment above me pointed out, a Speaker who acts as Pelosi does but is 30 years younger and is less of a lightning rod would be worse.
First off. The next speaker will not stay as long as Pelosi. The party is in a death spiral mostly due to her poor leadership.
2nd. That's the rules on how the house operates. The speaker doesn't even have to be a member of the house. But they must have a speaker to operate and they will be under immense donor pressure to figure it out.
And how much do the rules matter?
For all we know donors would be happy with a government shutdown that they could use to kneecap progressives.
I mean I'm assuming we still have a functioning government that has been operating the same as it has when Republicans where picking speaker. So I think the rules matter as the empire still stands.
Speaker ship changes. Republicans have had squabbles over it.
"Rules matter" is a scorching hot take in 2021. They don't even have to break any rules in the scenario I outlined -- they can just do a few failed votes and then go to the media about it instead of locking themselves in a room and doing it all over again.
Because no one is running against Pelosi currently. I assume that's because 2022 is her last term as speaker and there will be a large competition then
Didn't she say last term was her last term as Speaker? And why isn't anyone running? Pretty spineless of the Justice/progressive wing to not even do a nominal challenge.
In 2018 she agreed to end her time as Speaker in 2022
Who dares downbear me, I am correct
Thanks for da proof. Two upvotes your way.
That's not a good thing though and certainly not an excuse for no one to challenge her. The Dems are barely holding onto a majority in the House and Pelosi has been a horrible leader. They need change now, but they're just going to wait for her to leave on her own in another year? Sure as hell hope the Dems appreciate that slim lead in the House because I'm sure its not going to survive the 2022 midterms.
I didn't say it was either. I am just assuming that they are not challenging her because they know an opening is coming next time.
Point taken.