How does anyone consider themselves a leftist while being virulently anti-idpol? Are they just completely unaware of the role of women's and black liberation struggles in leftist history? Do they not understand imperialism, colonialism, the labor aristocracy, and the right to self determination? Have they not grappled with social reproduction? I get that liberal identity politics is maddening and unproductive, but a complete rejection of it is a complete rejection of the unique conditions which different segments of the proletariat faces. Bourgeoisie feminism sucks which is why we need proletarian feminism. Black capitalism is useless which is why we need black socialism. Not to mention anti-imperialism, which should still remain the primary goal of leftists in the imperial core, You would have to be willfully ignorant to pretend that "idpol" struggles have not always been on the forefront of anti-imperialism (while workers movements have frequently been complicit in it!)
They are sick of politicians using symbolic gestures instead of improving people's material conditions, but don't have the language to express that, so they easily pickup on the anti-idpol.
It's frustration at liberalism at its core. They just took the wrong thing from it.
Because liberal identity politics is maddening, unproductive and above all divisive.
It takes about 30 minutes on blue check Twitter to ruin your opinion of idpol if you don't know any better.
Those tweets about not giving money to white homeless people because of their privilege. That'll do it also.
I have to ask again, why are you named after a Neo Nazi comedian?
Edit: For those wondering why I’m curious:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Hyde
kinda weird that you can view comments from deleted theads
I’ve seen him and I’m always like ‘wtf?’ and I’m surprised he’s not banned yet.
Dude should be long gone. Fascist shit be zero tolerance here.
Fascist shit be zero tolerance here.
100% agree. However, I don't think that's what's happening here.
I'm inclined to believe that this is just another case of irony poisoning. Like how Chapos referred to themselves as grey wolves. Notice how that trend has gone? I haven't seen Chapos refer to themselves as grey wolves since the subreddit was banned and this site opened up.
If you check their posting history it's nothing objectionable.
Fair enough. I’ll eat crow. Still a bit of a tasteless user handle, but what can you do
Agreed. Second takes on usernames are only fun if they make you laugh or inspire intrigue. Even as a comedian, Sam Hyde does not make me laugh and the username makes me sad on a leftist chat forum
You don’t see how having a handle after a prominent Neo Nazi might be a problem?
I don’t see what’s funny about it. Seems kind of shit, and I’m one of the least serious people on this board. Most of my posts are shit-posts. Sam Hyde is a terrible person and the people he’s adjacent to and hangs around are even worse
I’m kind of done responding to this particular convo chain though, you have a nice day.
Wait, you said you're asking again which means you're probably the person who got banned for concern trolling about this.
Are you actually Sam Hyde? If so, how did you find this site and why are you on it? Lol
Edit:
you changed your pronouns within the last 20 minutesEditing back in my alcohol induced oversight for contiguity
I have never changed my pronouns. Why would a "nazi comedian" positively contribute to this site? Of course I'm not him.
You're right, I'm drunk.
But fr tho why Sam Hyde? Do you just share a name with a fascist?NVM thanks for clarification
There's the cynical use of Identity Politics that has contaminated that concept for smooth brians like myself.
Love the amount of class reductionism in the online left at the moment.
I need to just stay offline for a bit. I can’t stand that shit and I’ll end up in too many arguments
I don’t think you in particular are a class reductionist, but the way your comment is kind of worded did set me off. I’ll explain why when I wake up. This is my day off, I really need some sleep.
Let’s take to it to PM when I do
Edit: Nice talking to you man and glad we were able to connect and converse rather than screaming at each other
Cool, glad to hear that my ability to get HRT is a tool of oppression, since evidently under bourgeois democracy idpol can only be used as a tool for oppression. Very good and connected to reality take!
Its pragmatism gone wrong. They see a group of hard working manly proles and a tiny by comparison group of annoying college student sjws. And think “this group is small and annoying and accepting their ideas will push away the manly proles that don’t understand or care about micro aggressions. Proles can’t understand big words anyway.”
outside of their imagination It’s cause they value racists over poc and sexists over women and queerphobes over queer people. It’s them who is dividing the left by pandering to bigots who want to devide us.
she
Thats kind of suprising, honestly. I was in some 4chan shit when I was younger (because thats where the fandoms of a lot of the video games I loved were), and I just could not stay there; every time I tried to engage with them I was chased out almost immediately by misogyny, and later, homophobia.
I was a gamer, anti-social, lower class in a white area full of urban decay, undereducated, and in the annoying 14-year-old atheist crowd - I was in the exact right demographics and communities to be radicalised to the right. But they just couldn't stop being sexist, homophobic shitheads long enough to expand their numbers. They alienate almost everyone eventually.
Its an incredibly toxic enviroment for most types of people, including women. I get that it's not a great thing to have to rely on, but honestly its pretty realistic that she might just have to leave when the struggle session inevitably turns on her, which it will. If you want to get her out of there, a good place to start could be the feminist angle; people tend to suddenly not mind idpol so much when it applies to them.
edit: i cannot believe emotes don’t work in titles
huge mood :angery:
yeah, going on 4chan made me virulently and genocidally racist
toward whites
Yes these type of people exist who hate intersectionality but want socialism. These same fuckwits will tell you that class reductionism doesn’t exist.
I don’t know what caused more of them to pop up lately, but I’ve been seeing more and more of them. Mostly spoiled upper middle class white kids who don’t lose out if we ignore social issues (this is coming from a middle class Jewish dude)
Anyone care to guess why these shitheads have been popping up more recently?
The further development of pink capitalism is the biggest factor, I think. Leftists will be pushe further and further from intersectionality as it is employed as a corporate tool, despite any nuance.
At a certain point it becomes not left anymore and just anti-capitalist.
Just-anticapitlist is perfectly left. If that is the compromise position we cna move people to we will win.
fuck yeah! no money, no corporations, all hail the god emperor! tithe labor vouchers to the preistly caste!
I think leftism is wanting to fix all issues of oppression, not just economic.
Fascists are sometimes anti-capitalist. Just being anti-capitalist is not enough.
Intersectionality is the most revolutionary lens we have for viewing the struggles of oppressed peoples through.
Historically fascists are very pro capitalism or at least anti-socialist.
What issues could there be that aren't observable through the lens of economics?
And this is the political position of people like Aimee Terese, and Sean McCarthy. I’ve seen it called “post leftism.”
Edit: speaking of that crowd, does anyone know what the deal is with progrockfarmer on Twitter? They seem especially hard to pin down.
Progrockfarmer is Niccolo Soldo, who runs (or ran?) a nazi forum called Salo. I don’t know much about him other than discerning that the hard to pindown-ness is very intentional and masterfully executed.
Well that’s sure informative! The Red Scare girls absolutely love him, by the way.
Edit: Jesus Christ, this Salo forum is wild.
“ I’m strongly for depopulation, there is simply too many humans. I believe that there should be 10-20 million people max, strong eugenics, and focus on scientific research and space exploration. Of course there will be no nations whatsoever in such a world, possibly few cultures, and much much less languages. I also believe that there should be some human zoos to keep few samples of genocided people, for nostalgia and as a warning....But such things as we know are impossible to accomplish.”
God I hate that crowd so much. Luckily I haven’t had to see much of them since I was banned from twitter
pink capitalism is definitely toxic, but its important to remember that its not actually feminist. allowing women to be punished for crimes the same as men isn't... that's not really feminist, its just a negotiation and appropriation to get women into an unjust system. same with trans people in militaries and women being asked to do as much as men AND the traditional domestic shit.
its juts shooting liberation in the head, and dressing oppression up in its poor fitting clothes, still covered in blood, and hoping everyone's too fucked to notice.
because the online left excuses toxic behavior and bad takes in service of "the pipeline" but it turns out it just attracts toxic people with bad takes
among other things, obviously
I mean you can't really blame them, since intersectionality can never give greater results than unionism can. </math joke>
you can't just say 'math joke'
show us a proof or delete that shit.
I am sure that exists, but useually when I think of class reductionism I think of MLK who said that there can be no freedom for his people without economic freedom.
You realize king realized the importance of anti-racism as well though, and would never call it a ‘distraction’ or a ‘waste of time’?
We tried liberal reforms without economic reforms. Did it work? Would the opposite have worked better and made things easier to fix the rest?
i was raised upper/middle class. one thing i found was that most people care more about cohesion within their peer group than actual justice, and theres this sense that racism isn't a thing even when you're trying to make out with cute dark skinned girls in places where it will really piss off your kkk* grandma and making a point of never letting her see you with a white friend.
like theres this weird almost deliberate blindness that everyone in that class has to it, where they can't say the thing even when its actually happening and you're operating on it.
You jut described most leftists i personally know, it's horrible.
There’s some in this thread already shitting on idpol. It honestly turns me into a doomer about the left sometimes. Then I realize this is just the online sector of the left full of spoiled white dudes
If we gonna have a revolution in the next few years it's either gonna be india or Haiti.
I always use emotes in titles, the words are good :)
also serious time on the Chan will make you an antisemite consciously or unconsciously
I always use emotes in titles, the words are good :)
lol i just thought you all were doing a bit tbh
that too(and mainly), but it sounds pretentious to me to say that for some reason lol
When I used to go on 4chan the racism permeated most of the boards, perhaps not the more obscure hobby boards, but it was mostly contained on /pol/ and /b/. I fondly remember game threads on /sp/ where most overt racism was met with "GTFO /pol/"
now it's racism all the way down
We can't really fix it until there is more of a real life component to the left. Whether anyone likes or hates it, idpol develops when you have to find a way to incorporate wide ranges of people into your project since we know for a fact different identities respond to different messaging. The inward facing left whether that is the grillpill people, the academics, redscare or whoever never have to face any standard for their theories other than whether they sound satisfying to the in-group which has no concrete goals other than staying in the in-group. Sure, the mere fact that other ideologies need a wide range of practitioners creates idpol that runs against our goals, but the leftwing rejection of idpol in general seems to stem from the most disconnected parts of the left justifying further isolation rather that a strategic move to accomplish anything in reality.
The idea that rejection of idpol stems from wanting to keep the left fractured is absurd. Its the opposite of that.
Then why are you rejecting the means to get more people into the left?
I didn’t say I was rejecting it. I’m just saying that people who reject idpol do so because they see it as a less effective means for building a movement based on solidarity, not because they want to further splinter and isolate segments of the left. Just pointing out that the reasons people reject idpol are the opposite of what was being suggested in the previous comment.
It’s cause they value racists over poc and sexists over women and queerphobes over queer people. You have to pick and they made their call that bigots are more valuable.
Maybe get her to read Chasing the Scream, I used to be an absolute fuckwit about drug addiction/policy before I read that book. It's really easy to read because it's essentially a series of short biographies you can complete over multiple sittings, and it touches on other social issues including structural racism.
Opening up a pocket of empathy will make it easier to let more in, and hopefully help bring her back to Earth a little.
However you do it though, stay strong comrade, the forces of reaction are always around, but so are we :heart-sickle:
