Slash arr slash gaming circlejerk unironically doing "They targeted gamers" over some fake China shit.
Big China fan but cultural policing like this is overbearing and cringe.
For those not familiar, Sixth Tone is a party-owned publication which is often very critical, especially on social issues.
This article, though, doesn't say much about the subject at hand (other than what batshoe quoted).
Your comment doesn't do enough justice to how completely unrelated that Sixth Tone article is. The entire thing is about closing a loopholes that companies are using to get around the playtime restrictions on minors, and then at the very end it barely mentions the rest of the memos content.
Fair enough, I didn't mean that comment to feel like it was attacking you or anything. There is undeniably a socially conservative current in the CPC that sucks, but I think people tend to focus on that and not on the other stated purpose of the policy that was in the memo, which was combating unrealistic beauty standards in media.
Sure it is:
https://chinadigitaltimes-net.translate.goog/chinese/671510.html?_x_tr_sl=zh-CN&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=nui
I'm not saying it's false but:
China Digital Times
Created By: Counter-Power Lab, University of California, Berkeley
:bruh:
I'm personally going to wait for analysis to come in from sources I trust more. It could be true, or could be false, or could be partially true, but I'm not taking it from the :cia: .
I can't read Chinese, but based on the translation (if the documents are real) that seems like an ESRB-like scoring system rather than a list of things that are banned.
GamingCirclejerk is a satire sub. You're literally using "unironically" wrong. So you don't understand the post, the sub it's on, or the reality of the information. This is an awful post lmao
I think the irony bit is "politics in video games", pretty sure they believe the headline fully, whether it's actually true, partially true, or false (I don't know, don't jump me on this).
Yeah, and OP said they are unironically doing "they targeted gamers" which they are not. The sub is constantly making fun of that, like in the post, as you just said.
The top ones are not, and the only ones that are earnest are either asking questions or making pretty unassuming criticisms of the situation, not full-on propagandizing lol. The original source of the article in your link is also pretty pro-China so I don't know why you aren't just looking into things yourself
This thread is rapidly devolving, but SCMP is a privately owned HK newspaper and is not Chinese State Media or even (IIRC) really pro-China. It's owned by Alibaba.
Again, I don't know about this specific article's subject and I'm not saying anything about it in particular here.
I'm not replying to your comments, just the notion that SCMP is a pro-China paper. I thought it was a point worth making (more politely).
I'm specifically not getting involved in the overarching conversation here because it's a shit-show. Please continue the argument without me.
SCMP is not pro-China, Jesus Christ you people are fucking illiterate
It's literally owned by Alibaba, and western media is constantly whining about it being propaganda lmao. If your bar for "pro-china" is limited to exclusively state-owned media then sure, except it's about one step away anyways.
I don't base my conceptions of the world on Westerners because I'm not a fucking idiot. It's a Hong Kong-based newspaper that constantly posts anti-China shit. You don't live in reality.
I don’t base my conceptions of the world on Westerners
Cool, me either. That doesn't mean anything
This is my understanding of the "sissy" thing, which is the only thing even close to objectionable in that https://twitter.com/ItsMaoCena/status/1433813113661501444?s=19
I'm quite concerned with how this site appears to forget what "critical support" means. It's crazy how defensive people get here over China.
I asked my Chinese language partner about this and she confirmed that it's real, and that many Chinese people are upset about it too. Just because they do some cool socialist stuff doesn't mean that many of them aren't socially conservative boomers who are concerned with tRaDItioNAl VaLUeS like everywhere else.
You really, really cannot fault people for being skeptical about China news. Recently, we had the whole abortion ban thing, which turned out to be obvious bullshit (the same line about reducing - not limiting - abortion had been in the document for like 20 years). It's wrong to assume bad faith in what's actually totally reasonable skepticism that sometimes goes a bit far.
This sissy men shit does look like CPC boomerism, and OP is being a dick, but that doesn't mean everyone who's been skeptical has been wrong to think that way.
Honestly I think people here know and what's happening is more of a deliberate decision. The left projects in the US & UK collapsed with socially progressive NGOs playing a huge part and with some of their most prominent leaders siding with the capitalist to kill off any material gains for most people. This combined with how poorly Chomsky's and other left academic hand wringing over the Soviet Union has aged is probably pushing people to abandon the pre-bernie alignment and throw all in with China.
It's also hard to overstate how many Americans are simply in really bad situations and would rather have Chinese policies regardless of any social conservatism.
This is the real crux of the thread, because the "sissy" shit is bad but also already well known. Banning relationships would be a whole new thing.
There's definitely a current of social conservatism within the party, which is one of the driving forces behind the "sissy" thing, but given the evidence currently at hand (as far as I can tell from this mess of a thread), I'm not seeing banning same sex relationships from games.
I'm hoping for a proper translation of the source document or a Sixth Tone article in the coming days to clear this up.
The discourse surrounding this can get problematic at times, but this is a bit of a stretch in terms of the majority opinion on here. There's definitely at least a handful of people with homophobic :brainworms: , though.
being gay is incompatible with marxism
:bruh-moment: :what-the-hell:
The mods here are pretty good at removing reactionary shit, actually. Are you a wrecker? This is the second really weird comment I've seen you post today.
They made an angry reply to me, then deleted it. I think you might be right.
Its wild to me how the west imposed its heteronormative worldview as part of its imperial project, and that a century on that heteronormativity being hailed as the culture the west is infringing upon. Same shit happened everywhere.
Yeah, this seems to have happened basically worldwide and it's extremely depressing. :yea:
I'm so confused. You literally posted a Chinese media source saying that it's true.
The document also expressed its commitment to combating so-called sissy men and danmei — risqué online fan fiction — as well as traffic-oriented content in the gaming industry.
I don't know what else I'm supposed to say. It's true, and it's bad.
China posted cringe, also I just played Eastward which was published in Shanghai and has several effeminate characters. If that game gets censored or pulled then I'll believe the news.
I don't think waiting for better sources in unreasonable. If it's true, then it's cringe and shouldn't be justified, no doubt.
We saw this in the abortion thread, where people got big mad and then it turned out to be misrepresentation of the source document.
Edit: to be clear, the sissy men thing was and is cringe, but it's not a lot of detail to go on. One line in Sixth Tone doesn't justify accepting whatever western media says.
Edit 2: lot of back and forth below here, so I'm just gonna clarify my point again in this top comment: the sissy ban thing is bad, but separate from the relationship ban discussed in OP, for which there is (as far as I can tell) no evidence as of now and which would be much worse.
I'm the one who got """big mad,""" and it didn't "turn out" to be a misrepresentation, I was aware of the misrepresentation from the start, but I still believed that there was cause for criticism, regarding the grain of truth which the article had exaggerated.
I also want to point out that it was exactly this issue that caused me to be more skeptical of people on here dismissing criticism of China's social policies, because it became apparent that people are really eager to make it look like China never ever does anything bad, regardless of reality. Perhaps I overreacted in the abortion thread, but if so, it's because shit like this broke my trust in this site with regards to social issues in China.
One line in Sixth Tone doesn't mean we should accept everything Western media says, but it does give enough information to say that it's bad.
Perhaps I overreacted in the abortion thread
Well, you weren't the only one who got mad IIRC, but yes, that's my point. On account of the fact that it turned out to be totally baseless, and the "grain of truth" was that one region in China (with the worst gender imbalance) had created abortion restrictions in the 20ish years since the "reduce abortion" line had been added to the document in question. IE, clearly the document did not mean "abortion restrictions inbound".
One line in Sixth Tone doesn’t mean we should accept everything Western media says, but it does give enough information to say that it’s bad.
I agree the "sissy men" thing is bad, and should be reevaluated by the party. However, the subject of the thread is that China is banning Queer people in video games and, as of now, there's not enough evidence to substantiate it. It's possible that it's true - China can and does do bad things, but we should err on the side of waiting for solid evidence and analysis.
Given that the increasing crackdown against "sissy men" aesthetics seems to be getting solid pushback in China anyways, I'm fairly hopeful this whole direction will be reevaluated.
I'm not going to relitigate the abortion thread, but I stand by my position that there are reasonable fears about it.
There is sufficient evidence to show that China is expressing a commitment to ban effeminate men from video games which is bad and deserving of criticism.
Given that the increasing crackdown against “sissy men” aesthetics seems to be getting solid pushback in China anyways, I’m fairly hopeful this whole direction will be reevaluated.
Well then, I guess I'm gonna keep criticizing the move on social media then??
I meant criticism from Chinese citizens, lol. They clearly do not care about Hexbear, this site only affects its (mostly American) audience.
I disagree with you about the abortion thing, based on the evidence that was provided in that thread (edit: as I said, the line the press were malding about had been there for like 20 years without a crackdown). But I don't want to relitigate it either, so let's let it rest.
"There's some evidence China is suppressing effeminate characters in video games" isn't the same as "this western article's analysis of that evidence as 'gay people banned from Chinese games' is credible, let's argue about it". There are currently games in China with effeminate characters, if the western take is correct in this instance, then we'll know soon enough. Plus, Sixth Tone is bound to have articles about it shortly, this is right in their typical sphere of coverage.
I meant criticism from Chinese citizens, lol. They clearly do not care about Hexbear, this site only affects its (mostly American) audience.
The US government doesn't care about Hexbear either, though. My point is that criticizing a policy before it happens is totally valid. To the extent that I have a voice, I would prefer to use said voice in opposition to bad things.
“There’s some evidence China is suppressing effeminate characters in video games” isn’t the same as “this western article’s analysis of that evidence as ‘gay people banned from Chinese games’ is credible, let’s argue about it”.
Who said that? All I've been saying is that there's enough that's been confirmed as true to conclude that it's bad.
All I’ve been saying is that there’s enough that’s been confirmed as true to conclude that it’s bad.
If this is all you're saying, I agree with you. The "sissy aesthetic" thing is bad, and needs to be reevaluated.
Edit: all I'm saying is that that doesn't necessarily mean the framing and extrapolation in western articles is correct. If we agree on that, I'm pretty sure we're not even arguing here.
Yeah my disagreement was with OP dismissing it as "fake," when there's evidence that some of it has been confirmed true and none of it has been confirmed false.
I agree OPs being an ass in this thread, but a new claim is beiing made about China in the OP (banning queer people from games) and the evidence advanced in this thread so far doesn't substantiate it.
The leaked document is out there, we won't have to wait long for analysis from a more credible source. I'll wait until then to make my criticisms.
The document also expressed its commitment to combating so-called sissy men and danmei — risqué online fan fiction — as well as traffic-oriented content in the gaming industry.
I feel like I must be speaking a different language from you. A document expressing a commitment to ban sissy men from video games clearly substantiates the claim that China is looking to ban queer characters from video games.
What I'm saying is the "sissy aesthetic" stuff is different from banning same sex relationships, which is the subject of this thread. The former has been covered, is true, and is bad. The latter bans queer characters generally, and would be considerably worse.
China to ban video games featuring. . . effeminate men
The document also expressed its commitment to combating so-called sissy men. . . in the gaming industry.
Edit: Misread your comment. My point is that enough of it is confirmed to say that it's bad and can't be dismissed as fake.
Actually most people here can affect Israeli policy since most people here are Americans.
Yeah man I'm gaslighting you. Systematic abuse occurring right now. Really convincing me there's no narcissism involved.
That person is me btw.
You should do nothing about it. But you shouldn't whitewash what's happening or retreat into some made up reality. When people go around calling shit fake when it isn't, it discredits calling actual fake shit fake. Nobody's going to take you or us seriously when we say, "that's just Western propaganda," if we say that about everything. Moreover, downplaying homophobia is alienating and makes us look bad.
I basically acknowledged everything you said in the post I linked btw. I fully understand being critical of western media due to it being unreliable on China and due to the agenda of manufacturing consent. But when a story is actually true, you can just acknowledge that China isn't perfect and move on. Rather than being like, "China never does anything bad ever," why don't we be like, "China isn't perfect but that's no reason to do an imperialism at them."
Ok if China is banning effeminate men and homosexuals, that's bad. I remain unconvinced that it is.
People who live in China don't have any power to affect Chinese policy. It's decided from on high. Government just happens to you there. One day, there's an announcement, there is a 4-6 week lead time, then bam.
They're not fooling around, either. They eliminate whole sectors of the economy. They just wiped out the after-school education sector. One day they're chugging along fine, the next day poof, your business is worthless and parents are standing around with pre-paid contracts that are now worthless.
Yeah, they eliminated it. The idea being that Chinese schools are all equal, and they all provide an excellent education.
Ask all the Chinese parents where they'd rather have their kids: a public school or an international school. That's where all the extra lessons after class come in: public schools in general are substandard. Remind you of America?
It's genuinely fucking hilarious that you're crying about China ending unequal schooling in a fucking Socialist forum.
People who live in China don’t have any power to affect Chinese policy. It’s decided from on high. Government just happens to you there.
Orientalism dot png. Besides the clear and obvious ridiculousness (they do vote, and are consulted on policy), there are nearly 100 million members of the party.
Yeah, they vote on the lowest possible level. They have no real power.
To join the CPC requires high test scores, a good college and a lot of extra work. Not everyone is cut out for it. It's not democracy.
The Chinese people have no power at all in government. It doesn't do anything they want. This is why the central government has a 95% approval rate, as measured by a Harvard study. :very-smart:
The approval rate has nothing to do with whether a democracy exists or not.
It's actually ludicrous to think that the will of the people being followed isn't linked to approval rate, but if it helps, the majority of Chinese people also feel their system is democratic, much more than Americans do.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-06-26/which-nations-are-democracies-some-citizens-might-disagree
Paywalled, but the summary is 73% of surveyed Chinese consider it democratic, compared to about 50% of Americans on America.
I'm not going to keep going back-and-forth with you, because I'm not interested in your assertions without evidence and this post is dead. If you want to discuss democracy in China, make a new post about it.
Ah, the US mainstream media - the fountain of truth. Citing them is always a good idea! They never serve the interests of power.
Yes, known for praising China over the US. As I said, dead thread. If you want to debate democracy in China, make a new thread and everyone can join in.
That's not really fair. The site does have some chauvinism issues (it's mostly used by westerners, so not surprising), but the average opinion is much better than whatever that guy's saying. Thankfully.
:this: there are boomer currents in the party as well as progressive ones. This (whatever it actually means) seems to be coming from the boomer current and facing social media backlash.
The Comics Code, reimplemented. This puts China at, what, 1955 in USA timeline? They've got another 80 years before they implode. No rush.
