The collective meltdown over the interview is 1000x more cringe than the interview itself at this point. People pissing and shitting themselves over something that is ultimately completely unimportant
Internet Historian hasn't released anything for half a year at least. :(
Thanks for saying this because it's literally this. This interview shouldn't even be a blip on the radar and yet we're blowing it up into a "we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!" moment.
Ayyy, no problem. I do think that there have been certain interesting things that have come from it, but they're all to do with the reaction. Obviously one is the degree to which it's exposed the level of deeply held reactionary views among people who are in the process of forming a degree of class consciousness, but are arriving at it purely through their relationship to the economy and have no political education. This clearly leaves them open to co-option, not just by liberals but also by fascists.
Honestly, there's a kind of prophesy failed feeling to the meltdown, as well as obvious aspects of poorly disguised self-hatred that I think relate to people's lack of class consciousness. So many of the attacks against the mod in the reddit threads are basically, 'she (more likely misgendered as 'he') looks too much like a redditor/looks too schluby', and basically just echo all the stuff that conservatives and liberals always throw at anyone remotely progressive who doesn't look like a media ghoul because they ended up in the spotlight basically by chance. These are real brainworms that people have deeply internalised as a result of being forced to live in the culture that the ruling class has created and they have a real impact. They are the basis of the 'looks presidential/prime ministerial' rating that is constantly used to beat down any left-wing politician and make scions and aristos seem like the natural leaders of the country. I'm not saying that the interview was good, but people's reaction to it is totally ridiculous at this point. It's a really sad kind of response that when someone comes on TV and performs like a normal person who doesn't have media training, and, even worse, reinforces stereotypes that our political enemies have about us, so many of us completely lose our shit and just revert to the conditioned responses. So we get a bunch of threads filled with people gatekeeping working class identity in the kinds of regressive ways that we constantly see conservatives deploying.
I also think that part of the issue is that people are really desperate for someone/something to come along and save them, and so completely lose it when the vehicle is shown to be flawed/it doesn't work out. The sooner we realise that no one is going to do that the better. The form of most social media encourages this passivity tbh. It encourages people to see voting on posts and having an opinion as akin to activism and gets them into the mindset (whether they admit it or not), where they imagine that if something gets enough votes then the admin of real life will have to take action. We're all Karens now! Social media has become the tragic spectre of an actual radical democratisation of everyday life. Instead of actual agency, 'you'll vote on everything and it will change nothing'.
And it's not going to stop because some "post left" fool decided to do four more interviews, including one with the New York Times.
Might be worth logging off when those drop.
The absolute sheer amount of liberalism will cause the universe to disintegrate.
This post left person that's never had a job and read one bit of post left theory, which excuses Bakunin's anti semitism, and has a whole rant about hating teachers and schools and comparing them to cops, has already done four interviews. Imagine the unfiltered liberalism coming from that x100 when they go interview the other liberals and feds that mod antiwork.
It's going to be too much, I'll have to log off otherwise the :brainworms: will consume me.
Oh god their gonna cut it so it looks like the person is against vaccinating school kids or some shit.
Preparing to hear the word "tankie" in an official interview, along with how bedtimes are authoritarian or something.
i misread at first and thought it was a 30 minute interview. it's only 3 fuckin minutes lmao. this would've been a non story if redditors werent insane
1 million users 1 interview, and 1 Fortune 500 anti union campaign.
I’m glad someone said this. This is something that matters only to the terminally online. This had little real-world impact. And most are just using at an excuse to be transphobic
honestly what were they so worried about? "oh no my parents won't take my politics seriously now!" you're a redditor bro they shouldn't take your politics seriously no matter what.
Also, doesn't she work 20hr as a dog walker? Isn't part of that job literally picking up dogshit? I mean, assuming she does it w/ multiple dogs and not just like, 1 at a time, that can get pretty fucking gross. It also requires skills to keep the dogs from all going nuts.
There's plenty of reasons to be salty, but the fact she works as a dog walker isn't one of them. Horrible spokesperson, but all work/labor is valuable and dignified. Appearing on Fox News, on the other hand, is not dignified. :marx-joker:
I agree on principle, but work that exists only to ease the cost of a luxury and facilitate consumption isn't valuable.
I feel like companion animals aren't exactly a "luxury." Obviously in world with more humane work laws, you won't necessarily need dog walkers (since we won't be working 8 hr days anymore so you'll be able to come home and walk your dog yourself). I'm also not gonna pretend that if you're working class you have the ability to pay for a dog walker.
However, unless we're never allowed to take trips away from home or spend more than 6hrs at whatever job you have, you might need a dog walker someday. As it is now, sure it's :bourgeoisie: as fuck. That doesn't mean it has to be. Working class people own dogs too. Having dog walkers that care about animals helps animal welfare - dogs not being cooped up all day (or worse, put out in the yard) - is a good thing.
Luxury is a hilariously vague term here. Is having a child a luxury then? Free childcare is DEFINITELY a luxury. Or is it not since eventually they will be future labor power? What about reading? Is that a luxury? Your argument is literally buying into capitalist ideology. The goal is not to beg for crumbs but change things and if we're going to change things we need to imagine a world where something like pet ownership isn't seen as a luxury just because it's unproductive but instead a human pursuit of companionship in a world we are alienated from our labor.
I mean pet ownership goes across class lines. While currently dog walkers/pet sitters are definitely a luxury for working class people, they shouldn't be.
Almost all work is not valuable. That's been established for a long goddamn time. Producerism is vulgar Marxism.
Work is work. It's being forced to sell your labor that makes you working class and creates the material conditions for solidarity. Trying to divide workers between those that do "valuable" work and those who don't is what reactionaries do to try and divide us.
I mean another way to put it is that she spends 20hrs a week moderating reddit. Should someone who does that be representative of any working class movement no matter what demographics make it up? Is anyone here under the impression that moderating reddit is some kind of road to organizing anything? If that 20 hours was spent trying to unionize other dogwalkers or volunteering in some org, sure. 20 hours a week of posting memes like "my boss said I have to push their bently all the way to work and then lick the wheels clean. then wouldn't give me overtime. i'm so done with working" doesn't do anything.
I guess it does do something though. It gets enough attention from the media so that they interview the founder. A person that has no real specific critiques of the system other than it's not fair and no goals other than "I don't want to work anymore." I think people are getting caught up on the argument over what jobs are valid as hardwork rather than focusing on the part where IT'S A REDDIT MOD. THE SITE WE PURPOSEFULLY LEFT BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL LIBS WHO DON'T TOLERATE US. I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS.
See that part is what I'm totally on board with. But the meme from OP and Reddit is about the argument as to which jobs are/aren't valid and I think that we need to have a broad vision of work to truly make this change. Is she the right representative? Hell no. Is her work valid? Maybe not the moderating, but the dog walking definitely is work.
Conservatives either own boat dealerships or work IT jobs as well. The men and women working back breaking work in the trenches either don't give a shit about politics or aren't even allowed to vote because they're not US citizens. Reddit is absolutely useless.
Yeah it's true, you do indeed find them in the working class, but my experience in retail drudgery hell has been people too exhausted to care.
Democrats punch down and bully them. And then go home feeling energized for having done a good thing.
The worst part about reactionaries in IT is that they're all as terminally online as all the furries and leftists in IT, so it's way harder to tune it out as "lmao Fox News Brain, who cares", because there's a way higher chance that you'll know exactly what stupid shit they're mad about, and they'll use all the lingo the worst trad dipshits on Twitter use, so it's like the internet is invading your real life in a really visceral way
What the lack of basic theory does to a mofo.
Also, i don't know for sure, but there has to be a :citations-needed: episode about this reactionary shorthand for "working class" being exclusively white, male, industrial workers.
Every thread I see from antiwork is more reactionary than the last. They should just close it and keep it closed.
The workreform subreddit is literally run by bankers pure unfiltered liberalism on display there.
Last time I checked it have also been taken over by stupidpol shitheads so yeah it's doing great
I saw some stupidpol posters on antiwork from time to time so this def doesn't surprise me
It kinda feels disingenuous to frame the guy working customer support at a bank as a big shot banker.
as we all know, the way you destroy capitalism is saying the same boring shit over and over again (i quit, i quit, i quit!) while not organizing irl at all
Real workers work 25 hours in the coal mines before going home to beat their wife, chug a six pack and then watch porn on their CRT television while wearing checkered boxers and a mildly stained white tshirt.
it's fucking awful. it's very obviously being brigaded by fascists bc they can't help but make transphobic comments. just disgusting stuff
it certainly isn't unbelieveable, but i've never seen even close to the vitriol and misgendering in that sub before thats going on right now. in the past posts that i've read, people have been kind and if they misgendered someone, they were happily corrected and edited posts. right now, it's comparable to the donald in some of the posts
yeah, that makes sense. just a big ole excuse to do a transphobia bc an interview went poorly, and frame it as "this isn't working, this is the left/sectarian/etc's fault! we need to be libs!!!" to crush the movement. i don't check r/all, but i'm sure several of them have made it there
Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.
:reddit-logo: isn’t actively leaking your IP to far right paramilitias to my knowledge, which is the reason for that rule. It’s a safety measure, not an antibrigade thing. Brigading is dope.
no prob I got rules lawyered earlier today in another space so I’m on the defensive
This is exactly the shit I was talking about earlier, this is a slippery slope into gatekeeping what "real" work actually is. What a shitshow, :reddit-logo: is putrid.
For a representative of a proletarian movement, it ought to be someone with labor bonafides and who comes prepared- this person was neither. Some gatekeeping is necessary obviously, or this embarrassing display is what you end up with
I can't say this enough: r/antiwork is not a movement, which is why some random person is on TV supposedly representing it, and why them fucking it up is apparently enough to derail the entire thing
I agree. It’s not a movement, it’s an online community, and they crumbled because they did not take their presentation or their project seriously
Find me a more obnoxious behavior set than producerism in modern America. Production is a tiny portion of the job market. Exploitation can and does happen in non-producing labor.
One area I can speak from personal experience is retail supermarket work. HORRIBLE industry where exploitation is just the norm of everything. A roughneck working on an oil rig has more freedoms and is taking in more pay (not to mention often having union support) than some schmuck who stocks shelves for $9 an hour, 40 hours a week. Labor aristocrats are the most vocally obnoxious shitheads out there who demand that the spotlight be on them and that ONLY their work is valid.
It's even worse with those fucking grocery delivery services now. The workers are literally running around the store to make the deadlines for doing people's shopping for these services like Checkers sixty sixty. I almost got knocked over by a poor worker running from shelf to shelf.
I know, mom used to work online shopping, it's hell, her being overworked lead her down the path to alcoholism that killed her. It's why I get really upset at assholes who have nice jobs that make people like us shut up. You're just another tool reactionaries deploy against the working class.
Yeah we need to have some class solidarity, people shitting on grocery store workers have no place in any leftist movement.
My work tried to get me on that online ordering shit I legit told my boss sure lets add it to my job description and give me a raise then. They fucked right off.
It's fucked man. They've got all these kids running around doing people's shopping for them getting paid fuck all.
Just look at these average salaries and convert them to USD (R15 = 1USD), it's beyond evil.
https://za.indeed.com/cmp/Checkers-Hyper/salaries
https://www.payscale.com/research/ZA/Employer=Checkers/Hourly_Rate
:geordi-no: proletarianization
:geordi-yes: return to serfdom but high tech.
25 hours a week. Do people actually think that workers like that get full time? No. No, they do not.
Before I transitioned I was a carhartt construction engineering person, and now I am a lab tech lady. Before that I did everything from detailing rental cars to working customer service in bookstores. The idea that there is some sort of 'static' idealized working class is complete horseshit. Every worker changes and moves through life even if they don't switch genders.
Someone who walks dogs for ten hours a week and has no labor organizing background, experience or connections is a piss poor representative for the working class and is rightfully being mocked for being unprepared and tone deaf
I swear you all are going to circle the wagons here and defend a sex pest sectarian blunder just because she is trans. Keep walking into these blunders, it’s clear you don’t really ever want to win if you defend this
Anarcholib who bans tankies and makes a mockery out of the left: defend her honor!!
Communist who points out how dumb this is: wall
Nowhere did I say anything transphobic or anti-trans in any way. I merely criticized this woman’s embarrassing display, and then made a secondary criticism of this website’s inability to accept the first criticism
Both of my critiques are right and you know it and it’s why you all got so mad
You're literally the only one who brought up her trans-ness out of nowhere as an attack and insinuates that this site didn't shit on her harder because we're pro trans and thus have to defend her because of that.
How stupid do you think we are? Do you seriously think we're unfamiliar with this tactic?
Just fuckoff to whatever shitty sub:reddit-logo: or discord you hangs out and tell us you owned us idpol sjws epic style.
I didn’t use her trans-ness as an attack against her. I clearly criticized her for tactical errors, sectarianism and general failure at being a spokesperson.
Then why this:
I swear you all are going to circle the wagons here and defend a sex pest sectarian blunder just because she is trans. Keep walking into these blunders, it’s clear you don’t really ever want to win if you defend this
And this
The more you circle the wagons and defend, the more closely they will be tied to being representative of the trans community
If you had just stopped at the dog walker part your argument would be viewed more in good faith and instead of this bullshit we would have a more productive discussion about what constitutes as "labor".
But instead you brought up transgenderism as something of a liability. That it "blinds" us from seeing the truth and engages in identity politic. This is a very typical tactic, social justice is bad because it distracts people from class struggle or something.
Again, just go ahead and take your screenshots and post it in stupidpol spaces. Have a laugh with all the reactionaries you welcome there. If you're not the one doing it then somebody else will so might as well claim your fake internet points.
It’s not a liability and none of my critiques of Doreen were due to her gender or trans status. They were valid critiques of tactical failure.
My point is that on this site, trans-ness is not a liability - in fact it acts as an impenetrable shield that will get people to start telling communists to go to the wall over completely legitimate criticisms. It causes you to act irrationally and defend and indefensible person and situation when you should be dunking instead
It is the one person dissenting from the irrational mob that is the NPC. :funny-clown-hammer:
The brave conservative stands alone against the SJW hoard.
Yes everyone other than the 22 people still left on this site after all the infighting are all conservatives.
If you've been here for longer than a month then you'll know that site have been criticizing r/antiwork long before this thing blew up. We have been denouncing it for various reason: that it's a liberal relief valve, that it took away energy from actual leftism, that it's just PMC capital strike.
The one group we always shut downs in this site with no exception are critics of AES states. Whatever people think about it, this site is unwaveringly pro-China, Cuba, DPRK, etc. Is that what you're complaining about? That we defend DPRK?
There is no victim hood, I’m making a critique about the ways in which this site acts in irrational ways on this subject due to overreaction
Like you’ve managed to put yourself on the side as a Vaush-tier rapist and national embarrassment, calling for the death of communist members of this site. That doesn’t strike you at all as odd?
It’s true on this site, not out in the world. As long as a user claims to be trans they are able to bludgeon and threaten others into irrational anti-materialist positions
Oh damn you were one of those losers they banned for shitting their pants over pronoun tags huh
This whole argument is so frustrating. I agree that you never said anything transphobic and anyone condemning you for it is wrong. But on that same note, "this website" is not defending an obviously unprepared, unqualified lib because she is trans.
Everyone: "She's a radlib who LARPed too close to the sun, just don't fucking misgender her."
You, apparently: "omg y r u defending her!?"
:stfu-terf:
i believe the point of this thread is not to defend the antiwork mod but to mock the (reactionary) trope that workers only look like white guys in construction helmets.
It's this, but this shithead looks to have a bone to pick with her because she's trans and somehow thinks we're defending her for that sole reason.
I have a bone to pick with her because she’s a sectarian anarchist who doesn’t take anything seriously and makes mockery of the left.
I have a bone to pick with this community because they are ignoring that and defending a rapist Vaush-tier internet mod because she happens to be trans. If she was not trans, everyone here would be dunking on them for being a joke.
Complains about sectarianism
Does a sectarianism anyway
It’s not sectarianism to attack mods who ban tankies. It’s not sectarianism to attack sectarians
It wasn’t even a FOX news trap, the anchor get sorry for her and gave her softballs and life advice and was cringing the whole time. This was an entirely unforced error by someone who doesn’t take shit seriously enough to groom themselves or clean their room or prepare talking points
If you aren’t going to wipe your ass or clean the garbage off your desk before going on national tv I sure as hell don’t want you representing my “movements” or “communities”
Do you think Lenin was going around unkempt and disheveled and failing to make coherent points?
No one and I mean no one in here is calling her their representative lol. Are there V*ushites larping as leftists on antiwork and reddit? Yes absolutely. Everyone in here agrees with it. Who is your anger directed at? People are outraged at the fact that reactionaries are using her to attack on trans people and the usage of white people as the face of working class which is frankly bullshit.
No priming needed, 99% of people outside this website would find that interview very damning
Most people on this website found the interview damming, doesn't change the fact that it's yet another example of Fox News taking advantage of someone for cheap dunks
They took advantage of themselves. All I’m saying is FOX could have mauled her and been much more mean, but actually played softball and were quite reserved. It wasn’t some trap.
I have seen absolutely no one dwelling on her being trans and even if they did, who cares? Weird thing to bring up.
That is literally the only reason anyone here is defending her. She is Vaush tier embarrassment otherwise, nobody would stan
Who is defending her? You're making up people to get mad at.
I gave one comment criticizing her and immediately got 15 frantically typed angry comments.
People are pissed because the shit you wrote is transphobic, you're not seeing that?
Please point to the transphobia
People have said I should get the wall for merely mentioning that this woman is an embarrassment to the left and should not be in front of cameras in the state she was in. Sounds like she’s likely a rapist too. Keep attacking me and venting your powerless rage into me for being the messenger
You think that transphobia is only when you don't honor preferred pronouns? You keep emphasizing gender like as long as you do that then you're covered and can't possibly be wrong.
Nobody was obsessing over her being trans. Everyone (here) was critiquing or defending her over an entirely different thing. Mostly that people were shitting on dogwalkers and the inevitable struggle session that will bring. You then suddenly bring up that she's trans and keeps dwelling on it and saying it matters. You're the one making an exception based entirely on her being trans. When you pick out that one trait to dwell on specifically and make someone an exception based on it, then you're doing a discrimination.
I swear you all are going to circle the wagons here and defend a sex pest sectarian blunder just because she is trans.
You're implying that we're overlooking her faults to defend her solely because she is tans, which is transphobia, and also what I reported this comment for.
It’s not transphobia to critique this website and its particular psychoses
No they're defending her because they either identify with her being chronically online and are assuaging guilt about it or they're NEETs who are also trying to rationalize away guilt of not living up to the myth of the working class, blue collar, roughneck. It is an identity issue, just not that one.
who is defending her? There are people literally just saying "don't be a bigot when you dunk on a radlib" lol
defend a sex pest
You got any evidence for this claim, or are you just engaged in good old-fashioned reactionary bullshit?
There's a screenshot going around of the Facebook page where the person that went on Fox confesses to it, but I have no idea if it's real or not. You can find the screenshot on r/genzedong I think.
https://i.redd.it/sc41gqos44e81.jpg
This is the screenshot for those too lazy to look it up. I don't know where it originally came from though.
Edit: Here are 2 relevant links.
https://old.reddit.com/r/GenZedong/comments/se7a5t/so_apparently_the_former_antiwork_mod_who_went_on/
https://old.reddit.com/r/GenZedong/comments/sdpvkx/so_apparently_the_rantiwork_mod_may_also_be_a_sex/
Watch them keep calling me an evil reactionary transphobe who should get the wall and defending this woman
I did criticize her for being a sex pest and got screamed at until I posted sources of them admitting it, and then… silence.
And I’ve never said Doreen sucks on the basis that she is trans. So it seems we are both doing mind reading here, but it’s bad when I do it but good when you do it
Fair, I am getting spammed with a lot of replies many of which are calling for my death. You can see why this is getting out of hand
Hey, maybe some of us are used to trans people being accused of rape just for existing, dickhead. Given the outbreak of reactionary bullshit over the last 48 hours, I'm here to baseball bat transphobes first and foremost.
Oh ok, as long as you just assume I don’t have evidence and am a reactionary then it’s fine
If you want an apology, don't hold your breath. You aren't getting one. You provided evidence. You clearly aren't a reactionary here to spread lies. That's good. My policy of assuming otherwise until evidence is provided ain't gonna change.
An October 2020 entry on the site of Anarchist think tank Center for a Stateless Society notes that Ford, who also goes by the name Doreen de Cleyre, was ousted from their organization after being "exposed as a rapist."
https://archive.is/M1UvP
https://www.reduxx.info/post/trans-r-antiwork-moderator-admitted-to-serial-rape-allegations
Ford states that one person accusing *** of rape had been intoxicated but allegedly told *** that "it wasn't a big deal" if they engaged in sexual activity anyway. Ford states that ** "took them at their word" and had sex with the individual despite their inebriated state, taking them to be "consenting." The person later would then accuse *** of sexual assault, to which Ford responds that ** will be "more responsible in the future when it comes to alcohol."
"After months of trying to keep myself in check, I began sporadically masturbating while they slept next to me," he writes in the undated Facebook post, noting that the individual made it clear that they were uncomfortable with the situation, but that he continued despite the warnings. At one point, Ford put his sleeping partner's hand on his genitals.
OK here's an anarchist one. https://archive.is/M1UvP
Ford, who is also known as Doreen de Cleyre, was ousted from their organization after being "exposed as a rapist."
Would you prefer Facebook?
https://i.redd.it/sc41gqos44e81.jpg
Doreen is a rapist and was an exceptionally poor choice to represent the community.
Wow I wonder what angle you're working here? Hmmm, what the mystery!
Exposing a :reddit-logo: mod as a rapist? What a surprise.
The real surprise is watching all the people defend her. This one is cut and dried folks: rapist = bad.
It's really disheartening to see all these people rush out to defend a rapist just because she's trans. And then engage in personal attacks as a cope because the evidence is overwhelming and incontrovertible.
Holy shit you don't need to defend her. She doesn't get a pass solely because of her identity
How are you defending this? These are literal screenshots from her Facebook account
Well it just recently surfaced that she has done some very problematic stuff.
Because you said something about your commitments within the past 24 hours which may not necessarily be relevant
https://reddit.com/r/GenZedong/comments/sdpvkx/so_apparently_the_rantiwork_mod_may_also_be_a_sex/
Lots of people are using this whole thing as an excuse to be transphobic and ableist. It's getting pretty rank now.
This is what was pissing me off earlier, I could see all this coming from a mile away. Fucking shitshow.
Yeah it sucks a ton. It dehumanizes people for no reason and makes us feel worthless.
Waiting for the :ban-hammer: to drop on all these dorks
This website has like 23 active users. There’s nobody to purge lol, you all made sure of that already
No introspection at all for why you are in this predicament
Waaaaah waaaaaah the mods won't let me be a reactionary!!
He said, to a mostly empty room in a mostly empty building
I'll catch you on your next account you make when this one gets banned and you meltdown lmao
Yeah I know they spammed me early on in the beginning with hateful DM's.
The mods took care of it though.
I don’t put pronouns for anti-doxxing reasons. Stupidpol is dumb
So there's this cool thing where you can dunk on someone who fucked up without also being a total piece of shit.
Here, check this out:
The r/antiwork mod who went on fox news didn't prepare, ignored their community, and did things that actively damaged their subreddit. "Laziness is a virtue" is about the worst thing they could haven said. They're also hella sus based on that SA stuff floating around.
oh damn that was easy.
What people are complaining about in this thread is that idiots looked at this and instead of focusing on what they did, went after them for who they happen to be. Disliking someone isn't a free pass to be a bigot.
And I was never bigoted, I made fun of an obvious tendency of the users on this site - which is the real reason you are big mad and nothing to do with transphobia
lmao your writing has ultra energy, are you that dude who kept boofing 8 balls of cocaine and writing weird anger rants until they got banned?
edit: oh my god, he never responded, I figured it out!
I only saw one user tried to make an argument for this mod, the others were criticizing her for potentially taking the air out of the whole movement.
https://reddit.com/r/GenZedong/comments/sdpvkx/so_apparently_the_rantiwork_mod_may_also_be_a_sex/
See why maybe this site shouldn’t be choosing this particular hill to die on?
I really don't have to be convinced. That sub was, at best, a place to maybe propagandize to disillusioned people. It's wild to me that people are gnashing their teeth and rending their garmets over it
https://archive.is/M1UvP
Ford aka Doreen de Cleyre was ousted from the anarchist Center for a Stateless Society after being "exposed as a rapist."
