Touch some grass dude, humans flirting with each other in public has been happening literally forever. “Oh let’s give control one of the most basic core human activities over entirely to a handful of dating app corporations” my man, go outside
I mean I've been hit on by, and hit on others in public. So long as you talk to them like an actual human, don't be a creep, don't disturb people clearly uninterested or busy with something else, and don't go from 0-100 instantly, it's usually fun.
Unfortunately many people fail at this basic human decency :doomer:
Unfortunately many people fail at this basic human decency
It seems to me that this is what he's referring to, though he isn't as clear as he could be. I feel like he's saying that approaching strangers in public (outside of places like bars) with the sole intention of dating or having sex with them would be rude, and I would tend to agree. If you're talking to someone and you ask them out politely after discovering some kind of chemistry, that would be different and more acceptable. I wouldn't want to be bothered with that sort of thing if I'm out and busy with other stuff, but that's just me. I assume at least enough people feel the same way that doing that sort of thing would generally be a bad idea.
EDIT: Reading what I wrote, I should make it clear that being at a bar/club also isn't an automatic free pass to approach strangers for dating/sex either, just that being social with strangers in general is a bit more normal in those places. Not everyone goes to the bar to be hit on, or hit on others and it's important to be respectful of that I think.
I agree, but I also feel like collectively designating bars and clubs as the only acceptable place to meet people for these purposes isn't great. On a practical level, lots of people don't drink for whatever reason and shouldn't be locked out of the dating scene. More abstractly, it plays into the capitalistic drive to monetize dating and romance to the point where it is very difficult to even meet people for dating without paying out.
I feel like he’s saying that approaching strangers in public (outside of places like bars) with the sole intention of dating or having sex with them would be rude, and I would tend to agree.
I don't know, I feel like something as simple as "hey, you're cute, could I get your number?" is acceptable almost anywhere. I've done that before, never upset anyone with it :shrug-outta-hecks:
I completely agree, and when this has happened to me it’s made my day, even if I wasn’t interested. It feels nice to have people be interested in you, as long as they aren’t weird about it
It makes your day when it happens, but how often does it happen? If it happened all the time when you go out in public, and frequently from people who are not polite or may even come off as threatening, would it still be as enjoyable?
It's really obvious a shit ton of the dudes in this thread have spent literally zero time reading about what women deal with on a daily fucking basis
If it was impolite or threatening, obviously I would not enjoy that. Hence the “don’t be weird” clarifier. But if it happened frequently I’d love that. I like talking to strangers generally, and I like compliments. Even if it’s just a comment about my appearance, I put a lot of effort into my appearance so it makes me happy to have it recognized
Yeah a lot of people take hitting on someone/flirting to make unwanted comments on a strangers body immediately, which is just straight up gross behaviour. Just talk to people normally, at most compliment stuff they chose, like their hairstyle or clothes, and even then don't make it some :awooga: sexual comment.
Or they see it as an opportunity to try talk to someone clearly uninterested. It has to be mutual, otherwise it's just harrassment.
Talking to people without a corporate chaperone is cancelled. The electronic matchmaker will decide who you marry. What are you, some kind of harlot?
I think it feels spooky on large part because we are becoming more and more alienated from normal human interaction
A simply solution.
Only people who you find attractive are allowed to flirt with you.
I would be far more likely to use such an app, still feels weird to me but I think part of that is being old enough that I have internalized the stigma of "online dating" that existed before it became normalized.
Which is also funny because one of my longest relationships started with someone I met playing WoW.
yeah i found my bf off an app though it had a search function for premium members that i used after some guy threatened to kill me for not wanting to fuck him that got the police automatically involved and they gave me premium for free for life over it. he like, tried to find where i lived and stuff. was pretty whack.
so i just searched by profiles that said socialism and found my bf lol
I've started to make a profile for tinder half a dozen times and as soon as I come the profile picture part I just close it and give up. I'm even "conventionally attractive" I guess you could say or so I'm told I just get really self conscious and don't know what I'm doing.
Also fucking holy shit at the "we're sorry you had your life threatened by someone on our app here's a free subscription for life"
also yeah i think they were doing that to cover their asses. i accept bribes :shrug-outta-hecks: not like im gonna go to a news agency who would out me as trans to the whole world probably
you have no idea how many dudes just look like absolute dogshit in pictures but are hot irl. im pretty sure a lot of women are aware that dudes cant play themselves up at this point
like my bf is hot as hell and really buff but he took a picture that made him look like a completely different person with a forehead 9x the size of a normal person. idk how he managed such a terrible pic, like :charlie-kirk: energy
lol see?! That's what I'm worried about even if it's super irrational.
if anything it gives you the benefit of the doubt so youll get a first date. at least thats how it was with me. i was just like 'theres no way his forehead is actually that big time to go check'
Now I'm thinking that the only reason women I met online ever went on a date with me is because they want to see if I REALLY look like Charlie Kirk...
time to just make a push for everyone to get on chinese dating apps i guess lmao
cant be a honeypot if a foreign country is handling it :galaxy-brain:
Obviously. I would die of embarrassment when that happened. I don't get guys who don't cringe at themselves if the other person obviously isn't into it.
I have trouble reading body language so I would just never do this. I’m also married, so yeah.
If your gamer chair looks like it belongs in a race car I immediately discard your opinion.
Also this guy has never been to a bar. That's literally all they are for.
Well that and playing darts/pool with strangers.
I go to a bar because they have a chicken wing special which is way cheaper than buying my own and cooking at home. I read leftist theory there because the music is too loud to listen to podcasts.
What other reasons are there to go to a bar?
These mfs really be spending like thousands of dollars for a "chair" that looks like it belongs in a 12 year old, video game addicted kids bedroom.
This pissed me off recently looking for a GOOD office chair. The only actual high quality one I could find that didn't look like it would fucking break inside 1-2 years was £500+ like wtf. I just want a spinny chair that isn't made of plastic and looks like a comfy sofa you'll sink into.
This was the absolute best thing I could find , it's not the right aesthetic but at least it really looks like it'll last forever... But maaaaan it needs to be more like 300. All the products that will actually last are priced outside average people's range.
EDIT: Lmao look at this thing. "Boss Chair"
Herman Millers are very comfy and you can typically get them for cheap / free if you find a failed start up cleaning out their office
:very-smart: im taking notes give me more advice i cant stop sitting like a queer and breaking my spine
Mesh backed chairs look stupid but the amount of levers and weird shit on a good one lets you sit like richard fucking simmons reclining on a sybian without any long term problems
Richard Simmons reclining on a sybian
I have no idea how to picture this but it's fun trying to figure it out
This is why I have a “gaming chair” :deeper-sadness: Its ugly but it’s very comfortable and cost 1/3rd what a decent office chair would’ve cost
Yeah it's all the same design.
If you have back problems it's impossible to get any decent chair, no matter the design.
Yeah it seems many adults never leave that teenage mindset lol. Permanently stuck in middle/high school
I think there's definitely a difference between mutual flirting and being a creep.
At what point is flirting mutual? In straight situations, I say its when the woman starts flirting at you first. Guys 'flirt' at me all the time, and every single time it is unwanted and feels like a torrent of horndogs is trying to jump down my throat. Its even worse when the 'flirting' gets physical like some guy tries to rub my shoulders
I need to start wearing a wedding ring or some shit, though I doubt thatd stop it
That's totally valid but I think other comments in this thread already address this, I for one don't feel comfortable with dating apps so social settings are the only time I could even begin to attempt that sort of social interaction largely for the reason you stated, I can at least get a feel for whether someone is actually interested in me.
I think the thing I have issue with is this person implying that in person social interaction of any kind is not the right time/way to meet a potential partner which is just incomprehensible to me.
Hell the last few dates I went on were after a girl hit on me in the grocery store I worked at.
Yeah I mean if you agree that the girl should give a strong sign first you deserve headpats :headpat:
It cuts back the amount about 40% imo and everyone after that point can ethically have their throat slit like the feral hog they are
why slit throats with knives when you have big ole munchers and an empty belly :british-maw:
im considering maybe a necklace for the ring so that when nasty guys look at my tits theyll get the memo... maybe
Those iron knuckles / punch knives that look like a kitty are fun. I got to watch a riot grrl use one on a sex pest once at a house show and I was like
:sicko-fem:
why slit throats with knives when you have big ole munchers and an empty belly
https://youtu.be/txQPGsm94fo
In his small defense I believe he specifically says bars are the one exception
but he says "maybe" like that's not one of the primary reasons to spend way more than necessary to get drunk around strangers.
Very true, it’s at the very least one of the top 3 reasons to go to a bar, if not the top one.
Also this guy has never been to a bar. That’s literally all they are for.
Bars are for spending 10x the price of a bottle on a single drink, listening to 90s music, and staring longingly at someone you're into from across the room while they grind on a better looking person with an expensive car.
I only go to bars during pride and I still get harassed by straight men :sadness-abysmal: EVEN AT GAY BARS
If your gamer chair looks like it belongs in a race car I immediately discard your opinion.
:deeper-sadness:
these hexbears unironically think that all social interactions in the public sphere must be so staid and lifeless that one is becomes alienated from one's own sexuality. lol, lmao, even.
yes, that is exactly what women mean when they talk about not wanting to be hit on in public.
O fuck o shit
But fr IM the one who initiates I will eat your head like a praying mantis otherwise
Based. This is the only reasonable compromise. I should be able to murder any dude who hits on me that I am not attracted to.
edit: I will settle for pepperspray / mace
the majority of this thread is mostly a bunch of dudes acting like hornt up lonely tortoises:
https://youtu.be/Uk7s_WgTsms
that turtle is far more interesting and cool than the average guy that hits on me
Can you kill me? No reason for it, just like, end me with the Ion Cannon from Command&Conquer
I'll pencil you in for my next available appointment, how does February 3rd 2027 at 9am sound
istg if this baitslinging normie dunce got flirted with irl by someone he finds attractive then all of this virtue signalling is going out the window
in reality, for these normies, public flirting is fine if the one who commences it is conventionally attractive/NT but it isnt fine when the one who commences is less conventionally attractive/NT than the person they are talking to
congratulations, "women who don't want to be sexually harassed are ableist" is literally the worst take I've seen in months
Ctrl+F what I wrote, "women" and "harassment" never appear. Im just stating the obvious fact that we dont live in a utopia where there is such a thing as "true" love and romance born out of "inner beauty" when it comes to modern intimacy. If a person is "ugly"/deformed or ND, their flirting is more likely to be perceived in a negative light by whoever they commence it with/receive it from in socially acceptable settings for flirting, especially among normie social circles. This applies for anyone of any gender. In fact, if youre NT and conventionally attractive, then you can toe the line of acceptability to a much greater extent. Caveat being that im speaking from my observations and dont have any studies to back this up, but this is something that doenst get brought up often enough. Weve been conditioned to be shallow fucks who only care about shit thats skin deep in the arena of romance.
If a person is “ugly”/deformed or ND, their flirting is more likely to be perceived in a negative light by whoever they commence it with/receive it from in socially acceptable settings for flirting, especially among normie social circles.
“Oh you wouldn’t care if they were hot” I’m telling you for a fact: even if a really attractive man started flirting with me in public I’d be just as uncomfortable and anxious.
This applies for anyone of any gender.
Not an equal playing field. Men hitting on people (particularly non-men) has a completely different dynamic than other with other genders. You cannot erase the differential there.
Caveat being that im speaking from my observations and dont have any studies to back this up, but this is something that doenst get brought up often enough.
This gets brought up constantly by MRAs trying to justify misogyny.
Weve been conditioned to be shallow fucks who only care about shit thats skin deep in the arena of romance.
Body positivity is vitally important and needs to be part of any intersectional liberation effort. "Skin deep" is a good way to put it because most western beauty norms come out of colonialism, patriarchy, and white supremacy. That is a completely different topic than what is being discussed here though.
Yeah, I think flirting in general is less comfortable when you’re not attracted to the person. And a lot of people’s attractions are ableist or shallow, so that just kinda follows
Probably because of the cynicism, but i dont ascribe this to immutable aspects of the "human condition"
Probably because of the cynicism, but i dont ascribe this to immutable aspects of the “human condition
:jesse-wtf:
istg if this baitslinging normie dunce got flirted with irl by someone he finds attractive then all of this virtue signalling is going out the window
in reality, for these normies, public flirting is fine if the one who commences it is conventionally attractive/NT but it isnt fine when the one who commences is less conventionally attractive/NT than the person they are talking to
What no intersectionality does to a mother fucker. Hitting on people in public comes with a whole host of issues. Pointing that out doesn't meant that we're advocating for corporate control over the dating scene.
It's the classic white cishet leftist guy calling shit "ahistorical" or "immaterial" when it criticizes something he likes. The criticisms in this thread are pretending to be leftist. You can simultaneously not like apps like Tindr or the corporations behind them while also talking about how hitting on strangers is generally not great
This comment just reeks of reactionary / 4chan brain. Like the way it's written is exactly how reddit or the farms or 4chan talk about social justice movements.
Also too the idea that this is a virtue signaled take and can't be an earnestly held belief. The immediate assumption that this is a lie first and foremost as opposed to something someone could genuinely act on in public.
"Oh you wouldn't care if they were hot" I'm telling you for a fact: even if a really attractive man started flirting with me in public I'd be just as uncomfortable and anxious.
But that's a perspective that can't be considered because the immediate assumption is that this is "a soyboy beta cuck" trying to attract the woke women by virtue signaling. Huge chan shit.
I mean, I've always just dated people I know and have chemistry with. I don't see why you would ever need to cold call a stranger.
Imagine having social relations in the US in your 30s. :agony-shivering:
A lot of my 20s was spent going to big social events with lots of friends-of-friends-of-friends.
So there was some gray area between "people I already know" and "cold call on a random person". There's always some amount of introducing and "how did you end up here" ice breaking. But eventually, someone has to let the other person know they're interested.
I've said this elsewhere, but I think part of the problem is that real life social groups/communities are basically non-existent for a lot of people, so they feel like their only option is to seek out people exclusively for dating/sex instead of getting to know them before taking that step.
I think the issue is the way people flirt. I'm fine with some light banter, but I don't want some stranger commenting on my body or whatever while I'm trying to buy groceries.
I hope nuance makes a comeback one day.
People spending time theorizing about the appropriate way to flirt in public are the people not spending their time flirting in public :thonk:
My morning adderal kicked in and I wrote an effort post I'm going to repost as a top level comment.
Can you explain what metoo ideology is because everyone else seems to know already, but “the logical outcome of metoo means no flirting ever” sounds like a right wing persecution fantasy.
This is not what women are saying, but the persecution feelings being projected onto a right wing figure are accurate, so lets talk about that.
What Metoo Meant To Me
Metoo was, to me, about women naming the bullshit, aggression, and fear we deal with thousands of times a day. It resulted in a small handful of the worst perpetrators of this predation being removed from positions of power. Most of the worst predators are still in power.
The vast majority of men were not even affected materially as a part of this movement. If women "canceled" every man who was ever sexist or made them uncomfortable... there wouldn't be a lot of men left. Women understand this. We pick our battles. We are extremely good at threat assessment because we have to be.
It's hard to talk about this as a femme without shifting back to defensive and protective language. We have to do it for survival. It's not because I hate men, however. I love men and want them to be free of patriarchy too.
Some Reasons Why Women Don't Like Being Hit On
Women have the right to bodily autonomy. The patriarchy pushes the idea that women and non-men are objects that can be "claimed" or "won" by "deserving" men.
This and a host of other misogynistic issues results in men generally being raised with the idea that they have a right to women's bodies, time, and attention. It also creates cognitive dissonance because most men understand this is gross and makes zero fucking sense.
Because of the above issue and other systemic misogyny, women and non-men are hit on and harassed constantly throughout every day. Every day. It is not a compliment like it might be for a man because sitting right behind the act of being flirted with by a stranger is the potential threat of violence.
Men are typically not raised to handle rejection well. They are also typically taught to respond with anger or even violence to negative emotions.
This creates a dynamic where women who are harassed publicly are expected to "politely let a guy down" who is harassing them.
Look at this thread for tons of examples of those entitlement and "anger towards even hypothetical rejection" brainworms firing off even in good people who are leftist.
The dude in this video articulates his ideas like shit and is cringey. That doesn't particularly matter however because he could phrase it perfectly and many men would still likely disregard his opinion.
The sad thing is it doesn't have to be this way. Men are not inherently dangerous or predatory. Patriarchy is systemic and we all have degrees of it internalized. Literally all of us.
Feminism is critical for total liberation. Patriarchy is a horrorifying weight on everyone, including men. The frustration and alienation it builds in society cannot be understated.
As an aside, notice how even the language of "hitting on" a woman is based in physical violence.
@duke_richardrichard - reposting this because your comment / question was really solid and worth talking about
Very good effortpost comrade, thank you for this. My main question is what do we do about that? How do we implement these ideas into how we interact personally and as a society? Because like you said “”the logical outcome of metoo means no flirting ever” sounds like a right wing persecution fantasy“ and obviously can’t and shouldn’t be the answer. Obviously you are not required to have the answer to that I’m just curious if you have any thoughts
My main question is what do we do about that?
no clue but i think having a surface-to-surface missile cannon imbedded in my forearm at all times would be pretty helpful :samus:
real solution is let the women initiate in straight relationships :shrug-outta-hecks: men ive initiated on seemed genuinely happy and into it and i cannot say the same for all the guys that initiate with me, in fact i detest it
That sounds like a decent idea in theory, but in practice, it's not a great solution. Like it or not, we still live in a patriarchal world, and men are still expected to initiate in hetero relationships, and the vast majority of hetero women aren't lining up to change this particular gender role.
and the vast majority of hetero women aren’t lining up to change this particular gender role.
Somehow its women's fault for not freeing themselves single handedly from this gender role while men are still actively maintaining this gender role.
"Nice plan, but the patriarchy exists didn't think about that huh." :very-intelligent:
if i asked you what i should personally do about imperialism, you'd tell me to join a party and get organised.
for feminism im telling you to join a party and get organised. feminism is a political programme. read the theory, discuss with comrades, implement the praxis.
want a world where femmes aren't gonna feel threatened by you? we gotta make it so, together :solidarity:
Nobody seems to have mentioned it here, but saying that the only places you're allowed to find dates are apps and bars seems ridiculously capitalist. Like, dating apps are designed to make you spend money if you want to be noticed (you'll be high priority on the algorithm early on to give you a taste of success, but afterwards, you're going to the rock bottom unless you're super attractive or you spend money). And bars, you're expected to spend a lot. So it sounds like it's saying "Don't wanna die alone? Well, you better drain that bank account".
And if you're not good at the whole flirting and attraction thing, the only way to get better is by doing it. And if the only places you can do it are these... well, I hope you have a lot of savings and weren't planning on buying something nice.
