the attitude of "ban anything that even remotely sniffs of liberalism" did lead to an incident where TC69 banned a user for a small misunderstanding, then doubled down and re-banned the user with no explaination after the other admins unbanned them, and then basically the entire c/neurodiverse mod team quit the site because or that.
hugely problematic behavior from a site admin. an unapologetic "everyone with a bad take or who ever upsets a frequent user deserves to be banned" is lazy moderating and hurts ND people
edit: fuck i posted from the bit account by accident
Some of them were definitely on the c/furry mod team. Reason that mod team kinda just dissapeared without saying anything is because the incident was about "im leaving" callout posts, which led to the ban of "im leaving" posts in general, and the modteam (if i can recall) was too alienated and sad to really fight anymore about it. Hoping for a revival of that comm soon
Well I'd rather not have a struggle session every time someone decides to leave. We have enough struggle sessions. If people want to resolve issues, the time to do it is as a participant in the community, not as a parting shot
isnt "they" is what people use when they don't know the gender? I use it all the time in help desk tickets since many names i couldn't guess the gender. ive been on this site too much and never seen someone be miffed about using "they."
yeah but it also becomes the liberal's version of misgendering for people who don't 100% pass or who a lib just wants to be shitty to. It's simply misgendering but with plausible deniability in many cases, so people on here (where basically everyone has pronouns listed) get a little touchy about it since there's kinda no excuse at that point
yes, how dare that person(who commented above) not click the profile link and check out what a long inactive and once problematic admin preferred, instead of defaulting to "i don't know." What an egregious crime.
Let's not be a parody of ourselves. It's important to read a persons intent and not just their words.(which sounds like me being a lib, but it's the internet. youre reading words without any tone or emotion so you have to process it differently)
I'm not saying crucify them, geez, I'm just explaining why it's sometimes touchy despite generally being "the default when you don't know". That user is talking about how they were around at the time and knew her/were driven away by her, so idk, it's not 100% unreasonable, esp considering gender figures heavily in her username, but it's also almost certainly a misunderstanding. Still, no reason to be hostile to a minor correction either. It's fine.
lotta liberals out there using "they" in an aggressive way? sure if you say so. In my experience liberals arent smart enough to know how to use the word "they" properly.
I've had it done to me before I started using she/they with the intent of refusing to accept that I'm a "real woman". It tends to be used as a way to refuse to use someone's correct pronouns, and instead handwave their identity as unimportant, but the lib still gets to feel progressive. Imo it's only proper to use they/them as a default when you have no way of knowing someone's pronouns.
oh it absolutely happens. i know a dude who self-ids as strictly gay but is dating a pre-everything trans woman and exclusively refers to her with they/them pronouns. just as a fun example.
just bc you haven't encountered a behavior doesn't make it imaginary, and this one is harmful to trans people.
The addition of the "and once problematic" bit makes it sound like you're suggesting that she deserves to be misgendered some amount because you don't respect her. I don't expect that's what you meant but you might want to change that wording.
i didnt think i was crazy there. plus she was responding to Infamousblt, a 3 year user. So im gonna go ahead and doubt that person is some awful transphobe. I guess milistanaccount09 also should have also checked a profile huh?
I dunno, if this were some long in depth conversation about another person, sure. We could do more diligence and stuff but this isn't one of those conversations so it seems okay to use more generic pronouns should be acceptible.
Maybe it helps one of the last conversations I had with them before their final was after a book club reading of Trans Liberation: Beyond Pink or Blue and they were feeling that they might be a bit more fluid than they had previously thought.
There's a tendency among people in general to misgender trans women and specifically trans women by referring to them with singular 'they' despite the fact that other pronouns are clearly listed at the top of their profiles. I had actually been reading a few posts on a different site today by trans women I know being affected by this same phenomenon, which was one of the reasons I was particularly peeved.
I think that in the digital era it's very inexcusable to get the wrong pronouns for someone: you're always just one or two mouse clicks away from knowing someone's pronouns (since they're always in someone's profile 99% of the time). I understand that you might not have meant anything by it! I myself was affected by a bunch of internalized transmisogyny for some time
I don't mind the necropost :) I actually just posted about this again like yesterday so I didn't even realize you were responding to my old comment!
Anyways I understand your concerns and I've formulated my opinion based on those facts (but honestly bullet point #2 is pretty silly: in that case it's pretty clearly on the onus of the person being gendered to update their pronouns).
I get that it is a shame because yeah people can be wrong but I feel like it's a bit of a case of weaponized incompetence: 'oh I didn't know saying that was offensive so I'm under no obligation to actually watch what I'm saying.'
Additionally ofc your argument doesn't address the root problem which is why I'm concerned about this issue: people At Large tend to misgender trans women by calling them "they." I think it's more important to adopt a culture that pressures people into making sure they're gendering people correctly than to allow offensive speech (which misgendering is) to persist.
what milistanaccount09 said was bananas and sounds like TC69 thought. milistanaccount09 is a 2 month old user, and you and D61 are here 3 years so i dont think youre transphobes. milistanaccount09 should have clicked your profile link and figured out the intent instead of going rabid.
Just because someone has been here three years doesn't exempt them from criticism. For all you know, milistanaccount09 maybe a long time poster who started a new account.
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the attitude of "ban anything that even remotely sniffs of liberalism" did lead to an incident where TC69 banned a user for a small misunderstanding, then doubled down and re-banned the user with no explaination after the other admins unbanned them, and then basically the entire c/neurodiverse mod team quit the site because or that.
hugely problematic behavior from a site admin. an unapologetic "everyone with a bad take or who ever upsets a frequent user deserves to be banned" is lazy moderating and hurts ND people
edit: fuck i posted from the bit account by accident
No more half measures Walter
indeed
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Some of them were definitely on the c/furry mod team. Reason that mod team kinda just dissapeared without saying anything is because the incident was about "im leaving" callout posts, which led to the ban of "im leaving" posts in general, and the modteam (if i can recall) was too alienated and sad to really fight anymore about it. Hoping for a revival of that comm soon
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Actually banning I'm leaving posts is good, because they're only ever shit stirring
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Well I'd rather not have a struggle session every time someone decides to leave. We have enough struggle sessions. If people want to resolve issues, the time to do it is as a participant in the community, not as a parting shot
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it was because the admins themselves were making "I'm leaving" posts in a really abusive way, which included not actually leaving.
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no, a couple of the old admins did
there was one night where shit got really weird
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Now rewrite that comment using Finger's speaking mannerisms.
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You can check her pronouns right there through the link. There's no excuse to misgender hir.
isnt "they" is what people use when they don't know the gender? I use it all the time in help desk tickets since many names i couldn't guess the gender. ive been on this site too much and never seen someone be miffed about using "they."
yeah but it also becomes the liberal's version of misgendering for people who don't 100% pass or who a lib just wants to be shitty to. It's simply misgendering but with plausible deniability in many cases, so people on here (where basically everyone has pronouns listed) get a little touchy about it since there's kinda no excuse at that point
yes, how dare that person(who commented above) not click the profile link and check out what a long inactive and once problematic admin preferred, instead of defaulting to "i don't know." What an egregious crime.
Let's not be a parody of ourselves. It's important to read a persons intent and not just their words.(which sounds like me being a lib, but it's the internet. youre reading words without any tone or emotion so you have to process it differently)
Good thing I didn't say that
I'm not saying crucify them, geez, I'm just explaining why it's sometimes touchy despite generally being "the default when you don't know". That user is talking about how they were around at the time and knew her/were driven away by her, so idk, it's not 100% unreasonable, esp considering gender figures heavily in her username, but it's also almost certainly a misunderstanding. Still, no reason to be hostile to a minor correction either. It's fine.
lotta liberals out there using "they" in an aggressive way? sure if you say so. In my experience liberals arent smart enough to know how to use the word "they" properly.
I've had it done to me before I started using she/they with the intent of refusing to accept that I'm a "real woman". It tends to be used as a way to refuse to use someone's correct pronouns, and instead handwave their identity as unimportant, but the lib still gets to feel progressive. Imo it's only proper to use they/them as a default when you have no way of knowing someone's pronouns.
It's a Thing, yeah, idk what to tell you
oh it absolutely happens. i know a dude who self-ids as strictly gay but is dating a pre-everything trans woman and exclusively refers to her with they/them pronouns. just as a fun example.
just bc you haven't encountered a behavior doesn't make it imaginary, and this one is harmful to trans people.
The addition of the "and once problematic" bit makes it sound like you're suggesting that she deserves to be misgendered some amount because you don't respect her. I don't expect that's what you meant but you might want to change that wording.
Its just a gender neutral pronoun. Its fine.
i didnt think i was crazy there. plus she was responding to Infamousblt, a 3 year user. So im gonna go ahead and doubt that person is some awful transphobe. I guess milistanaccount09 also should have also checked a profile huh?
I dunno, if this were some long in depth conversation about another person, sure. We could do more diligence and stuff but this isn't one of those conversations so it seems okay to use more generic pronouns should be acceptible.
Maybe it helps one of the last conversations I had with them before their final
was after a book club reading of Trans Liberation: Beyond Pink or Blue and they were feeling that they might be a bit more fluid than they had previously thought.
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There's a tendency among people in general to misgender trans women and specifically trans women by referring to them with singular 'they' despite the fact that other pronouns are clearly listed at the top of their profiles. I had actually been reading a few posts on a different site today by trans women I know being affected by this same phenomenon, which was one of the reasons I was particularly peeved.
I think that in the digital era it's very inexcusable to get the wrong pronouns for someone: you're always just one or two mouse clicks away from knowing someone's pronouns (since they're always in someone's profile 99% of the time). I understand that you might not have meant anything by it! I myself was affected by a bunch of internalized transmisogyny
for some time
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I don't mind the necropost :) I actually just posted about this again like yesterday so I didn't even realize you were responding to my old comment!
Anyways I understand your concerns and I've formulated my opinion based on those facts (but honestly bullet point #2 is pretty silly: in that case it's pretty clearly on the onus of the person being gendered to update their pronouns).
I get that it is a shame because yeah people can be wrong but I feel like it's a bit of a case of weaponized incompetence: 'oh I didn't know saying that was offensive so I'm under no obligation to actually watch what I'm saying.'
Additionally ofc your argument doesn't address the root problem which is why I'm concerned about this issue: people At Large tend to misgender trans women by calling them "they." I think it's more important to adopt a culture that pressures people into making sure they're gendering people correctly than to allow offensive speech (which misgendering is) to persist.
what milistanaccount09 said was bananas and sounds like TC69 thought. milistanaccount09 is a 2 month old user, and you and D61 are here 3 years so i dont think youre transphobes. milistanaccount09 should have clicked your profile link and figured out the intent instead of going rabid.
Just because someone has been here three years doesn't exempt them from criticism. For all you know, milistanaccount09 maybe a long time poster who started a new account.
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thank fuck i can block users now