I've begun to just tune out literally all criticism this site has towards all 'personalities'
y'all some high school lunch table drama hogs
not that surprising given quite a few of chapos probably are in high school.
high school lunch table drama hogs
that's literally what Marx is about
high school lunch table drama hogs
They should rename the entire site
She makes good videos about gender issues in my (CIS) opinion. Really helped me become less of a CHUD about things like non-binary people.
Also her early videos dunking on alt right people like the golden one are top notch slop, although I think a lot of them got nuked because they were from before her transition.
Honestly, I feel like as time went on she became more and more lib.
she was able to transition without any huge hiccups because she made so much money from youtube. that shit turns you into a lib because it divorces you from what the majority of trans people feel.
Of course she did. She was never idiologically consistant. Plus, the Tammy character was perfect for my projection on her. Her social media presence is there to make money, not educate the libs. Of course, I share the frustration. I thought she was "one of us" in the sense that we are aware that revolution is the only possibility to end opression. Breadtube are all privileged people, if they weren't before, they are now. And that's how fast libs turn reactionary when they fear for their own posessions. ThoughtSlime and the Serfs also just went mask off with their Chaleb/Bay-Area/Tankies scuffle. White westerners need to check their privilege before talking down on comrades of color (not the other youtubers, real socialism they are trying to deny).
Yeah I was really disappointed when I noticed a good portion of here deep catalogue was disappearing over time -- I think there's was some real gems in there which were more politically focused but also maybe dated in the internet culture war
hey, you are obligated to care about reddit mods acting like reddit mods
t. redditor
I’ve seen her deradicalize at least 15 of my former highschool students and there are plenty of stories of how she pulled people from the alt-right so even if I don’t agree with everything she says I frankly don’t feel the urge to cancel her.
She deradicalized a friend of mine who was at best an edgy centrist and pretty much also an MRA. He used to use manosphere talking points, now he's reading Marx and arming himself. Did he still send cringe takes in the group chat before the US election? Yeah. I think that election video was deeply flawed, and I did have it out with him about it, but if dude wants to vote for Biden in NYC, it's whatever in the end. Especially since after the election, he's right there with us criticising his cabinet picks and Obama.
I've never watched her videos. I have no interest in doing so, at all, but it's still cool that she managed to pull my friend left.
I don't know your classmates, but I do know people whose politics come from internet videos. From my experience, their ideologies are volatile, easily changed with the correct rhetoric, and often incoherent. Two people I've known were proto-alt-right anti-SJW about 10 years ago, got vocally leftist in 2015 around the advent of leftist YouTube, and now both of them are an odd kind of centrist Catholic. Other people I've known actually went further to the right after exposure to breadtube personalities, so it seems hit or miss.
These were my students not classmates. They were suburbanite white kids who watched praeger U and Shapiro for fun. It happens more then you’d think in wealthy communities.
Natalie is the first real gasp of air many people who live in bubbles like that get. She speaks to people with her sort of right edgy humor takes and all those students who were pretty monstrous are now pretty far left from what I can tell/heard (one just helped organize a protest outside a prison to demand BLM protestors get realesed)
I know it’s subjective evidence but I’ve seen her do more then most people on this sub will ever do to deradicalize people.
So sorry dude. I’m not gonna turn on her. I’ll criticize her shit takes but I’m not gonna flat out cancel someone for doing good shit. Call me a lib all you want for this
Sorry if I came across as rude or overly harsh. Wasn't my intention. I'm not asking for anyone to get canceled nor was I criticizing her work on the basis of its content. I'm simply skeptical about the long lasting importance of kids going from one set of YouTube personalities to another set. I'm not convinced it impacts much beyond an aesthetic kids might adopt, nor do I believe they will even stick with it in 10 years. Sure, it pierces a bubble and shows them things they've never heard before. My anecdotal evidence suggests that after an initial period of interest, those kids will find something new to latch into, or they fall right back into what they initially watched, or they just become vaguely apolitical, or really anyhhing else. It doesn't stick because what they were initially didn't stick either, because it was always a superficial aesthetic.
Again, apologies if I seemed rude. Didn't mean to be confrontational in that way. I'm simply skeptical of the deradicalization angle when it comes to what I view as primarily an entertainment product.
If there's any academic studies on this topic I'd love to see it. I'm going off of personal experience and hunches here. I might also just be a grumpy old person. Watch whatever content you like and I'm happy if you enjoy it or if their work is meaningful. I've enjoyed ContraPoints content in the past and she's pretty funny sometimes.
Call me a lib all you want for this
"I will never read Marx"
Bitch I’ve read Marx, I’ve also read Mao where he says to acknowledge the material conditions of your situation and work around those. And that no one movement is the exact same.
Being a purist for purity sake is fucking stupid ESPECIALLY now adays. We can either big tent and succeed. Or can be picked off in small groups one by one, blaming everyone else for not being the one true leftist.
deradicalize
if our politics are determined by our material conditions, they're still radlibs
Better then being fucking Ben Shapiro listening N word spouting reclaim the west types.
Plus most of us started atlas radlibs, don’t fuck with people simply because they aren’t as furhh th era long as you down the radicalization path. That’s how we loose a movement.
Pretty much. Personally I just logged off listening to her and haven't had anything to do with her since.
Honestly, she's like, fine I guess, if she's actually succeeding at speaking to the right then okay I guess. Her videos certainly don't do anything for me, but if it means one less nazi, then okay.
I just wish she'd stop and think before saying, uh, anything related to The Trans Experience:tm:. Like, whether she wants to be or not, she's become the trans voice for the internet at this point, so all her questionable takes (i.e.: "people asking about pronouns is hard for me, i know NB people need it but 😭 😭 😭 ") on the topic will be the main one people hear. That's, uh, pretty bad.
I will say I'm impressed by her ability to turn a paragraph of actual content into a 50 minute long rambling video, though.
50 minute long rambling video with multiple set and costume changes. Come on, social credit where social credit is due.
Much like chapo.chat's choice podcast (no, not Current Affairs, the other one) the consumption of a political comedy podcast means as much as the consumption of an edutainment youtube channel.
consumption
The spectacle promotes passive, status quo affirming engagement with society. Matt literally told people to kill everyone around them
I think she's definitely part of the lib/"apolitical"/edgelord to comrade pipeline. I used to like her back when I was unlearning lib shit, but I defiintely outgrew her a year or two ago. The Buck Angel stuff didn't help either.
I've admitted before that I at one point in my life, I had some TERF-y opinions. I felt bad about it, educated myself, and stopped being a jerk. I have to say that when I saw the Contrapoints videos on TERFs, I recognized a lot of the things she said about them as opinions I used to have, and I think that the way she responded to them was really effective. Granted, at the point I saw it, she was preaching to the converted--and I was pretty convertible anyway, since I went out looking to convert myself because I felt bad about what I was thinking. I was a lib then (well, I still am of course. I'm here, aren't I?), and I knew I should be an ally but I wasn't feeling it. So anyway, she's not our Revolutionary Goddess, and if you expect her to be, you're going to be disappointed. But I do think she serves a purpose on the pipeline.
On a related note, if you're trying to talk to a TERF in your own life and you'd like a window into the wretched mind of a TERF, I'm willing to be transparent about how I used to think and approaches you might take to be persuasive.
I like her to be fair. She is not all that bad. Although these days her videos tend to lack argumentation and veer a lot more into aesthetic, I like that too, cause I like aesthetic and can watch a video just for that, and go for bad takes to someone more serious. I think what is cringe is all breadtubers trying to imitate her...
why? she's a lib, sure, but why single her out? She makes cool videos and gets a lot of hate for being trans.
Lmfao she's at least on par with Hasan in terms of liberalism
i don't get the hate and lib accusations. There were only 2 takes i disagreed with that i'd define as lib, first is the electoralism video but whatever i get the sentiment. fair enough you know?
The second one, was the justice video in the part about cycles of violence. She mentions a certain conflict she won't name but "we're expected to pick a side in" where each side hurts the other, so the other retaliates and it repeats forever.
...It's Palestine. That's the smug, centrist (mind numbingly dumb) way Zionists and shit libs speak about Palestine. I heard that phrasing word for word hundreds of times.
Anyway lost my respect for her at that exact point. But i still acknowledge it's just one mistake from MANY of videos and there's still value in what she says, regardless of whether i think she's awful on colonialism.
Come to think of it, Philosophy tube had a garbage take on Palestine too in his antisemitism video (criticism of Israel "can" be antisemitic especially when you're neither Arab not Jewish) . It poisoned the rest for me despite it being good.
He just erases that and plays into a status quo that harms a lot of Jews all just to be extra careful he does not get canceled
Well he succeeded didn't he? No one ever gets cancelled over Palestine. H3H3 still have their video calling Palestinians terrorist, Ramallah a "terrorist town" with Hila bragging about illegally raiding a Palestinian house there just because she wanted to experience it. Compared to that his Israel apologia is child's play.
Don't be surprised though. My comment pointing out to that got removed. It had a high number of likes and the conversation going in the replies was really interesting because I got to see the opinions of anti Zionist Jews for once. No idea why. We were all respectful. So it surprised me when it got removed.
Can't say I walked out of that with the same amount of respect for Ollie. I can't make sense of how the same guy who introduced me to Frantz Fanon and made that antifa video pulled the "criticism of Israel anti-Semitism" bullshit. What happened to his understanding of fascism all of a sudden?
Even if he didn't discuss the difference the "focusing on Israeli crimes alone while not being Palestinian or Jewish can be a sign of antisemitism" is objectively a bad take. All that does is smear BDS allies and make people afraid to stand up for Palestine. A criticism of a state is only bigoted if
a) it's a fabrication meant to dehumanize them, their race, or religion's adherents. For example Iran used armies of children to clear our land mines by stepping on them.
b) it's a reasonable criticism used to support racist or fascist ends. Like saying Sharia law is bad for women and LGBT people therefore if Iran votes wrong we're entitled to nuke it, à la Sam Harris.
One of my favorite things Michael Brooks said was when he responded in a Q&A that “So it’s not a complex issue, that’s the big thing, super simple” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62I61kBahNY&t=283s
God i miss Michael so fucking much. Why did he have to go so young.
Don't know if proper criticism or not but stopped listening to her vids when they got so damn long. I can focus at most for like 12 minutes before I start tuning out and passively accepting what's being said. Might be my own fault but I don't know if she do this on purpose or not.
