Lol in the star trek timeline society completely collapses due to warmongers and class war before we get saved by one guy lucking out and figuring warp drive out just when some vulkans were nearby.
The entire show has an incredibly dim view of capitalist politics. Check out the two parter called "Past Tense" from ds9 for a good look into how trek views our current society.
Mass tent cities for a growing poor populace does seem like a Kamal move.
Star Trek is literally "Posada was right - even the dolphins thing."
Which is why I wonder if this started as a bit, because capitalism did lead to a post scarcity society in the Star Trek timeline, as in it almost driving our species to extinction, before humanity learned its lesson, tutored a little bit by the Vulcans.
Collapse and then restructuring to a better society in science fiction is explored thoroughly in the Foundation series by Asimov if you're interested in it
I've had those books for ages and need to get around to reading them
We neolibs think that causing artificial scarcity and profiting off of that is the best way to reach a post scarcity society. Why no, I don't see anything wrong with that. :whywhywhywhywhy:
They believe only capitalism breeds the technological innovation necessary to generate post-scarcity and also unironically believe tech billionaires should operate society. I've had this whole scheme explained to me too many times.
Which is super ridiculous because if you look at every socialist country throughout history they have ALWAYS had a great leap forward in technological advancements. It's just like libs to completely deny reality
Of course, but you probably understand they mean American style free market enterprise.
The best way to reach a post-scarcity society is to embrace an economic order that deliberately and visibly maintains scarcity to maintain profit
I am very smart
Not just deliberately maintains, but requires scarcity to function at all.
A neolib future would be more like borderlands, where despite the technology for a post scarcity society existing the universe is still controlled by massive corporations which make artificial scarcity.
subnautica too. basically have nano replicators but they are monopolized by megacorps and charge you per use.
These would be some of the most terrifying futures if critically explored, like how do you fight a system where the oppressors essentially have infinite resources but use them to oppress the working class and extract more resources that aren't even necessary. In borderlands you just shoot people for loot and team up with the "good" corporations without changing anything.
like how do you fight a system where the oppressors essentially have infinite resources but use them to oppress the working class
You don't, I think; but in borderlands at least you've got interstellar space travel so you just find another set of planets as far away as possible and go there, hoping the capitalist civilization you came from collapses on itself before ever reaching your new place.
If you go down to that thread you'll see a couple of them quote Marx to own the Marxists and view capitalism-communism as some sort of dichotomy rather than a dialectical process of evolution.
Its absolutely crucial to understand dialectical thinking that is the foundation of Marxist theory. Otherwise you can very easily slide onto liberal brain poison like those guys, or V*ushites
Right on. It's taken me so much studying to finally (kinda) understand this concept. Marx did more than just critique the system and say "smash it," it's much more scientific than that. Capitalism is a natural evolution and improvement over feudalism.
Honestly the neolibs in the screenshot aren't even that far off Marxist analysis, seeing capitalism as a precursor to communism.
EDIT: Replies are smarter & more educated than me lol
eh, i still say smash it. idk if capitalism is really necessary or not. that kinda feels too deterministic like we're living in the only society we could be.
Notably this is also the view of late Marx. He began to become increasingly convinced (by studying indigenous social constructions, no less) that it was not ordained that society needs to pass through capitalism in order to achieve communism.
I'll cop to not reading enough Marx, but describing historical developments as "natural" seems to do a disservice to materialism.
Nah that sounds about right, I'll def also cop to having read not enough Marx.
Neolibs: POST SCARCITY FUTURE!
Also Neolibs: WATER IS A COMMODITY TO BE TRADED!
Lmao this is some real large brain shit. A system that puts all the wealth and economic decision making power in the hands of the capitalist class is gonna get us to post scarcity Star Trek. These people are truly beyond parody.
Its funny, because isn't that a key feature of capitalism, is that if production ever increases too much (able to meet all demands = post scarcity?) Then it collapses. Marx said it, we've all seen it. Capitalism can't exist in a post-scarcity society
They legitimately believe the capitalist class becomes rich out of some inner conviction for a better society.
I can't believe people can be so consistently wrong by accident. You have to understand things to be this consistently wrong.
I think it's both, irony-poisoned spaces are virtually guaranteed to create shit takes like OP.
When the original posters are being consistently wrong on purpose for a bit, and earnest folks come in and ape them, there's no real ideological basis for the shitposts. It's all just aesthetics shit for the folks earnestly posting there, like when folks tweet about their particular flavor of leftism that we meme about here all the time (anarcho bidenism and the like). Those folks are being wrong by accident, but they're so consistent because they're just mirroring folks being wrong on purpose.
An actual neoliberal would roll their eyes at the idea of 'post-scarcity', it's fundamentally incongruous with capitalism, easier to imagine the end of the world, etc. etc..
its fine; due to poor land management and apocalyptic ecological practices; we'll make it back to real scarcity soon enough.
They have confused their own genre of fantasy with sci-fi.
Stick to Avengers and Harry Potter.
They have been approriating it since Gene died and really ramped it up with NuTrek.
"Lets make the Galactic Federation, an organization so famously not-racist that Space Abraham Lincoln was impressed by it, into a bunch of xenophobic monsters who wouldn't lift a finger to help another species escape destruction. Let's also write this in the most science-illiterate way possible for no reason other than to piss off the older fans who actually learned about supernovas and black holes and shit - what a bunch of nerd losers!"
Love for Star Trek to be Mass Effect only much worse
Yeah, and Picard only really dealt with Humans, Borg and Romulans which is pretty vanilla.
Definitely not worth bothering with IMO, I'd rather just rewatch TNG/DS9 again.
Yeah, I know Roddenberry preferred that the Federation was always portrayed positively (I feel like he'd loathe new Trek for that reason) but I quite liked that DS9 showed some of the failures and downsides of the Federation while still making them generally well intentioned.
Yeah for sure, as much as I'm a lifelong fan Star Trek is very much a lib fantasy in a lot of ways, although still a way better lib fantasy than shit like the West Wing (doubt you'd ever see anyone reading Marx and unionising a bar on that show, haha)
I wish there was better writing put into the Bajoran episodes. Then I might, after three rewatches, understand how the hell their society works.
Yeah that's one of a few threads I'm disappointed they didn't do much with or just not resolve. Another was Will Riker basically being left for dead in a Cardassian internment camp.
"Everything needs to be dark and gritty. The kids love it these days, like in that show Game of Thrones or some shit." -Some Exec somewhere
I think I can't possibly hate these people more and every day they prove me wrong.
There are a lot of people who enjoy Trek and just don't get what the fuck it is. I have seen out and proud white nationalists be fans of it.
Coopting of and missing the point of leftist ideas is a basic tenant of fascism tbf
Still not as bad as the "I love Rage Against the Machine, but when did they get so political?" crowd.
that fascist called the golden one loves star trek. I know because I was playing the star trek 25th anniversary adventure game and found his guide on some forum when we got stuck. It was actually really helpful lol.
I misread it as "currency is a thing of the pest" and I kind of like it. :brrrrrrrrrrrr: :quark:
Imagine looking at Star Trek and being like "Yes, those Ferengi have it right"
