Not a coincidence this is at the same time one of the largest coal miners' unions is saying they'll accept environmental legislation if it invests in jobs in coal country
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/04/19/business/stock-market-today#a-coal-miners-union-indicates-it-will-accept-a-switch-to-renewable-energy-in-exchange-for-jobs
Just cut the coal miners a lifetime pension at this point. It will be cheaper than trying to develop "clean coal" or whatever
You can just take the coal and clean it I don't see what's so complicated here
you just need a hose and some water, maybe some borax. How hard can it be?
They meant a mixture of renewables jobs and jobs in carbon capture technology that would let coal plants stay open if they buried the carbon underground. They're not ignorant to the fact that half the coal jobs have died in the last ten years and it's just gonna keep dying regardless of who's president. They want a just transition off fossil fuels.
My old college just got a program that runs along the heavy equipment program that specializes in working on electric mining equipment, the sector definitely knows what its doing.
They have known for fucking decades. It’s politicans and mine operators who are being shit about it.
I remember doing a job out in west virginia, and i was surprised at how much diesel equipment they were still running compared to the canadian mines i'd been working in up till then. It blows my mind that they were still using combustion engines in the barely ventilated shafts that i was in.
It’s almost like banning most regulations and relying on owners to provide Saftey features on their own is a terrible idea.
This is what the PRO act is about:
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So-called right-to-work laws in more than two dozen states allow workers in union-represented workplaces to opt out of the union, and not pay union dues. At the same time, such workers are still covered under the wage and benefits provisions of the union contract. The PRO Act would allow unions to override such laws and collect dues from those who opt out, in order to cover the cost of collective bargaining and administration of the contract.
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Employee interference and influence in union elections would be forbidden. Company-sponsored meetings — with mandatory attendance — are often used to lobby against a union organizing drive. Such meetings would be illegal. Additionally, employees would be able to cast a ballot in union organizing elections at a location away from company property.
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Often, even successful union organizing drives fail to result in an agreement on a first contract between labor and management. The PRO Act would remedy that by allowing newly certified unions to seek arbitration and mediation to settle such impasses in negotiations.
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The law would prevent an employer from using its employee's immigration status against them when determining the terms of their employment.
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It would establish monetary penalties for companies and executives that violate workers' rights. Corporate directors and other officers of the company could also be held liable.
(from NPR)
True but it's still good. One of those rare moments where DNC interests align with leftist intetests.
I supported these guys and now Lenin won't leave my house and keeps screaming "IMPERIALIST OPPORTUNIST!" at me all night. I haven't been able to sleep in weeks.
Unions are a pretty consistent supporter of the Democratic party, yes so is capital but the DNC can't afford to just tell unions to f off. Increased unionization will lead to more D votes, for good or ill.
Edit: said another way, unions are to the DNC what evangelicals are to the GOP. Yes their interests are different from capital but the parties still need their votes.
Multiple unions have threatened to end contributions to Democrats that don't support the PRO act. Some are listening.
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OK but you also need Sinema AND you have to get rid of the filibuster, so while I do genuinely appreciate the DSA this still has a long way to go.
OK but you also need Sinema AND you have to get rid of the filibuster
It's proof-of-concept.
For everyone saying "Nothing can happen because Joe Manchin", here we have a clear example of a great piece of legislation for which Manchin is now officially a co-sponsor.
TFW the American proletariat slept for so insanely long in a beer, tv, fast food induced stupor that every major victory runs into 2 additional roadblocks the bourgeoisie have managed to set up in their 5 decade long rape of American society.
The bourgeoisie be removing all the safety valves from a pressure cooker and wrapping it in duct tape while increasing the temperature and thinking they've solved the problem
Are we still trying to avoid that r word? I know the mods were big on that a while ago.
Framing it like what? A question? Because I want to know. Stop being so hostile.
Okay, but I'm just asking because I thought that word was banned here, so I'm surprised to see it used like this.
Joe Mansion is not a real name. It's a joke like calling someone Mr. Moneybags.
Electoralism leads to Unionism. Unionism leads to Class Consciousness. There's room for growth here.
And communism to the one place that has not been tainted by capitalism... SCHPACE!
Electoralism is the path to the Left Side.... I sense much electoralism in you.
And when there is electoral failure, when it is principled and points the right fingers, it will also build class consciousness.
Looks the last 70 years of socdem/demsoc electoralism, (much more successfull and lasting than everything the US is even a decade from hoping to do) ,unions and searches for any increase or spread of class conciousness anywhere
uhhh lets not be so sure about these correlations even if they make sense theoreticaly
French unions have been pretty aggressive. British unions were big supporters of Corbyn's democratic socialist project. It's hard to find a social democracy that doesn't have a larger leftist movement than America.
aggressive at keeping their social democracy, nothing about advancing class conciousness and socialism. Also europeans countries having a larger leftist movement is explained historicaly by many other reasons other than social democracy ,under which socialist movements almost never grew in Europe, only stagnated
Manchin's base in West Virginia is union workers and he doesn't stand a prayer of winning without support from groups like teachers' and miners' unions. Labor unions are one of the very few groups that has leverage over Manchin.
How can this be true and he can still be opposed to the $15 minimum wage? I could see a guy reliant on the union vote being socially backward, but you'd think he'd need to be more hooked in to economic issues like that
Because while teachers and miners unions are good, an increase in the minimum wage at best marginally impacts them directly, not a hill they're gonna die on.
Show this to whomever says biden couldn’t have put pressure on Manchin
Manchin didn't cave on this because of pressure from Biden or other Democrats, he caved on this because his voters and groups like the United Mine Workers pressured him. Biden has fuckall leverage over Manchin. If Biden publicly denounced Manchin it would probably help Manchin's numbers given how unpopular Biden is in West Virginia.
The only groups with leverage over Manchin are his donors (ghouls) and his voters (mostly union workers). Manchin caved on this because his voters told him to sponsor this or fuck off, not because of pressure from other Democratic electeds.
I still can't get over the constant aoc struggle sessions a month ago. a bunch of leftists ganging up on one another over a vote that would inevitable fail and drawing the line between who is a real leftist and who is a pseudo-leftist based on that useless issue.
yea it turns out labor unions are the only way in which we can persuade lawmakers to our side in the fight between labor and capital. and there are still dummies out there who still care about the whole force the vote thing.
FTV was always radlib nonsense pushed by three podcasters who realized you can make a quick buck punching left. People who think AOC and the Squad can uproot global capitalism because the Democrats only have a 4 seat majority are the left equivalent of conservatives who think Mike Pence could have overturned the election because he was president of the Senate. Just a complete misunderstanding of what power is and how it works.
When anti-FTV people were saying "organize, don't fight the people already on your side", they meant doing shit like what DSA/Sunrise/unions are doing pressuring Manchin/Angus King/other shitbird Democrats who are the ones actually blocking progress.
The whole damn point was they could have used that opportunity to demand a variety of things including measures to make labor organizing easier. It was an opportunity for the left to actually act as its own political force instead of piggybacking off reforms neoliberals within the party wanted to do anyway.
yea all that sounds nice. but the post is about the dsa flipping joe manchin on the pro act with the help of labor unions. so a policy can be passed with different tactics.
the shit that I can't get over is the searing anger of some(jimmy dore fans) against the 5 congresspeople in office who are somewhat left leaning and the constant screaming at people who were apathetic or against it.
debates over tactical decisions get heated quite often. but people who are members of leftist organizations or labor unions know not to personally attack others who are on their side over disagreements of tactical shit.
in my opinion all that drama was the result of the fact that most online leftists are not members of any leftist organizations. they just browse the web together. that's alienation.
Forcing the vote was literally a DSA a plan to begin with, like I can't with this anymore because the situation had DSA members themselves pointing out the org was not paying attention or even trying to implement its own agenda. It's like schrodinger's organizer or something where nobody on the left seems to care what you actually do. It's just a bullshit version of pulling rank on people. We're just going to pretend people like Brie aren't also DSA and that FTV wasn't being championed by a bunch of activist when by our own logic they would also deserve credit for the shit everyone is in here celebrating.
here's the thing you have to understand about my position on the issue: I dont care right now, and at the time I did not care at all. If you can make the PRO act or m4a happen, please make it happen, I dont care how.
the only thing I have a problem with is someone who is so strongheaded about a tactical decision that they're willing to create chaos and disunity.
I have no problem at all with BJG or any other youtuber who was acting sensibly at the time no matter what side they were on.
The people I have a problem with are the ones who create stupid controversies that lead to disunity.
And let me tell you why this matters to me and why it should matter to you: the downfall of the cpusa in the 50s and 60s wasn't exactly caused by cointelpro and the fbi. it was the fault lines that existed amongst them at the time that the fbi and cointelpro exploited. cpusa leaders at the time were so paranoid of trotskyists that they couldn't imagine a greater enemy. hence the fact that at their height, something like 20% of dues paying cpusa members were fbi informants.
this is why we should ask ourselves when agitators start creating controversy, is this person who is creating drama really worth having around?
Are you a member of the DSA or any other organization, comrade? what do you know about the context in which 'the dsa plan' was passed. critiqueing organizational processes without taking on organizational discipline is a form of liberalism.
You could have just stopped at the fact you don't care. Like honestly what is even the point of going on about any of this when you didn't even bother to know the details of what happened? What is the point of endlessly fishing around for ways to discredit people? Is it just so we don't have to acknowledge indifference and apathy aren't actually signifiers of being the big bad arch socialist? I really think on some level people really prefer the narrative that everything is sabotage, grifters and enemy infiltration. It is so much more flattering than saying you didn't try because you didn't care.
So let me explain this one more time(I'm really not trying to create conflict here, I just wanna make sure you understand what I mean.) If we can pass m4a or the pro act, it would be good. I do care about that. What I don't care about is how we do it. So I did not at the time care about the ftv debate. But what I did care for was the fact we were so willing to tear each other apart.
And I damn well know what happened at the time. My contempt for the controversy in no way means I dont know what happened. I was following along the whole thing, and was frustrated (and still am) at the fact that we're so willing to tear each other apart over such inane bullshit as tactical decisions.
I'm also not saying that Dore is sabotaging or infiltrating. I dont believe that. I'm saying he's a leftist in the most shallow sense. As in we dont need him, or anyone who who creates that much controversy. It would be better if we stop empowering folks like him.
but lemme ask you this; do you care how m4a or the pro act is passed? if not, then why do you still care about this? also, do you think the vote would have passed the lower house? If you answer yes to this, idk what to say other than you're wrong. If you answer no, then why do you still care?
stop listening to jimmy dore. he's a lib.
That’s literally what I’m saying.
Biden defenders say Manchin couldn’t be pressured. That was objectively false.
Oh okay I interpreted it as you saying Biden could pressure Manchin. Yeah Manchin can be pressured without a doubt, just not by Democrat politicians.
I’m saying Dems could easily use his base to pressure him. They have done it before for other things. They just won’t.
Dems could easily use his base
How? Like the other user said, if Biden denounced Manchin, that'd probably help Manchin.
The biggest recent example was VP Harris going before WV local news stations and very loudly questioning why he didnt support the $1400=2000 checks as part of the stimulus program. That flipped him pretty quickly.
That said, I dont really know how much leverage the Biden admin could meter out with the PRO act wrt Manchin's base, as the Union leadership would have to be the ones directing most of the questioning.
They're pro-labor by America in 2021 standards. Like fighting right-to-work and opposing bad trade deals and stuff.
https://actionnetwork.org/forms/proactphonebank
Lend a hand comrades :rose-fist:
dsa is good stop pissing your pants that they’re never gonna be the vanguard party or whatever the fuck tendency fetish you have lol
