Permanently Deleted
Assuming this has roots in the opium situation. Pretty unfortunate but I can see why they'd be wary about it
Pretty much this.
It’s unfortunate, and I favour the Portuguese model, but the Chinese model seems to have achieved results. Given the historical circumstances, it’s understandable.
It is worth consideration that the opium gangs in the time of Mao were more like warlords than gangs as we know them in the imperial core they were also responsible for several famines as people cannot eat opium and all the land given over to growing drugs grows no food
although I remember reading somewhere that Mao implemented a policy of helping drug addicts recover while focusing on cracking down on dealers especially at high levels
Drugs weren't grown in China. They were grown in India and Pakistan (was the same territory back then) and imported to China.
they were grown in China. The British when they were in the process of getting the Chinese addicted to opium grew the drugs in colonial India. However over time the British were largely pushed out of the Chinese opium market by domestic competition
there were actual Cash crops of opium during the sino-japanese war, a lot of japanese General made fortune in the trade (tojo iirc)
According to my Grand parents, that policy was implemented but i'm not sure what really happened with those people, I assume they were sent to a workcamps alongside some lumpen elements of society (ei: beggars and vagabonds)
had a discussion with my cousin in China about the issue.
'' it would be easier to convince China to abandon reunification with Taiwan than to legalize drugs''
Ah, I figured out the game.
Step 1: Get red fash anarcho tankies to argue China’s drug prohibition is understandable
Step 2: Argue with them about Amerika’s war on drugs as if they somehow support that.
Step 3: Try to flip it on them by connecting the two.
:very-intelligent: “The ol’ :reddit-logo: switcheroooo”
Step 4: Shit and fard out of their doo doo ass while they crank one out in a corner like a goddamn swamp rat.
:fidel-sarcastic:
The whole “OP asks bait question and then goes silent as they jump to alts or set off a struggle sesh” move is completely flaccid at this point.
Truly the best and brightest minds of their generation.
Edit: OP had an early post removed titled “There are still suicide nets for abused workers in China. What's China doing to end these working conditions?” so yeah, I called it. they’re some kind of weird :reddit-logo: mutant.
tbh i don't see it that way, Regardless i think the subject is a good way to initiate a smart and constructive discussion on the laws a country apply due to values and historical event that happened, but also on the consequences of the law application
I’ve already outlined in other replies why I think the post starts from a place of chauvinism, but perhaps.
I’ve just seen this same pattern play out on repeat a number of times lol
Edit: op already had another post removed earlier about “zomg teh evil ccp suicide nets” so I called it, they’re a reddit*r
This is the real intent behind all drug related questions. There has to be a deconstruction of what a 'drug' is before any serious conversation can start. Don't buy into the "I just really want to talk about drugs but I'm scared of some totalitarian regime that will take it away", the framing of the question itself should be rejected.
exactly. not all conversations are worth having, especially if the person who put forward the question is some fuckheaded chauvinist
You do understand why it would be sus that someone posts back to back struggle bait and dips out though right?
China tends to be pretty wary on drugs after the whole opium wars thing…
This whole post is ignorant at best and chauvinist at worst
Post hog cracker
Agreed. China has way bigger concerns in the world than care about some westerners opinion on their drug policy. BTW OP, socialism will make it so you have no time to "explore your mind" or whatever. You will work hard.
Sorry for getting defensive, we deal with a lot of wreckers posting this sort of thing as struggle bait. Glad you are open to the more constructive responses from other users.
it's not a phenethylamine, tryptamine or lysergamide, but it definitely has physchdelic effects, I guess it's a semantic issue over whether or not it is actually a 'psychedelic', I vote yes
you're probably a daily smoker like me so don't get much beyond a mood lift, but for first time and intolerant users they can absolute experience ' non-ordinary states of consciousness (known as psychedelic experiences or "trips").[2][3][4] This causes specific psychological, visual, and auditory changes, and often a substantially altered state of consciousness.' aka physchdelic effects
they can absolute experience ’ non-ordinary states of consciousness (known as psychedelic experiences or “trips”)
one could argue that the same goes for sober people who have a spontaneous mystical experience, or meditate, or practice lucid dreaming. i mean, sure, i've had highs that were fairly trippy, that happens, there's moments like that, but if i take 200 ug of LSD i can guarantee that i'll be tripping balls for hours and i can't guarantee that with any amount of weed, i can only guarantee that i'll fall asleep part certain dosages.
No, I mean these definitions are nebulous at best and that is the pretense on which it is classified as a schedule one substance. It's bullshit drug war propaganda to call weed psychedelic.
Of course. Also the main reason I responded to this post was because this person is trying to do a China bad struggle session.
lame, China good. Psychedelics should be legal regardless of what their position is though.
and anecdotally, I do think weed can have psychedelic effects on people. It's not in the like technical category of psychedelic drugs with LSD and psilocybin, but if we used the term more broadly for the kind of effects you associate with them and consider, say, a dissociative like ketamine a psychedelic, enough weed can be like that. Personally I've had closed-eye visuals from smoking a lot on a low tolerance
Sleep deprivation causes all the things attributed to psychedelic effects.
sounds plausible but I'd want a source on this
Oh that's pretty well documented . You can see all sorts of weird shit while sleep deprived.
Do not recommend
I knew that it can, but I have trouble believing that anyone who trips on some gas is cause they're that sleep deprived. hallucinating from lack of sleep happens but most people aren't at that level? anyone who gets less than 7 or 8 hours or night is technically sleep deprived but that's a different degree from hallucinating
Thank you for typing that out. Genuinely good read while I have my morning coffee and cigarette
:maduro-coffee:
true
the scheduling for school, work, etc. is so punishing on young people's sleep patterns.
we'd have to see if a middle-aged adult who regularly gets enough sleep would trip from smoking then :party-parrot-science:
I have trouble believing that anyone who trips on some gas is cause they’re that sleep deprived.
The point is that all sorts of things can cause hallucinations, but cannabis is not a psychedelic by any definition. I also have to reiterate that this entire post was intended as struggle bait. OP either has an axe to grind with China and is too cowardly to come right out and say it or is deliberately posting wrecker shit.
Notice they have not responded to anyone in this thread or their other bait post that was more obvious.
of course I heard that sleep deprivation can make you hallucinate. I've had it happen to me.
I meant I want a source that attributes effects people claim to be weed to sleep deprivation.
of course I heard that sleep deprivation can make you hallucinate. I’ve had it happen to me.
I meant I want a source that attributes effects people claim to be weed to sleep deprivation.
Fellas, the :reddit-logo: is thick on this one, it covers them like tar on a pelican after an oil rig disaster
it was just a question damn lol, one you misunderstood at that.
the Schedule I-V classifications are ostensibly based their potential for abuse ("psychological or physical dependence"), not the subjective experience.
e: to be clear because this is the internet, the schedule classifications are obviously not evidence based
:strangelove: The reefer, it’s a deleriant, you see. I am very smart and understand the jazz cabbage
its silly to call it a psychedelic but i did trip off of strong brownies once. With eyes open, I was seeing kaleidoscopic effects from patterns in tiles. With eyes closed trying to fall asleep, I started hallucinating music with accompanying windows music visualizer-like hallucinations. I was frustrated because the loud music and bright visuals were keeping me awake.
(not my first time using cannabis, wasn't sleep deprived unless you all just spontaneously start hallucinating by staying up 2 hours past your bedtime)
Have you previously used psychedelics? I take shrooms regularly, and if I get even moderately high with cannabis I will have closed-eye hallucinations. Sometimes I'll even get auditory hallucinations if I get really high. It's a symptom of mild HPPD.
This lol
ib4 the reddit bro “well umm aktualy {refer madness technicalities}”
That talking point in the imperial core is literally based in American yankee racism and was used to justify the war on drugs and brutal devastation to millions of lives.
fucking ignorant crackers
:fidel-sarcastic:
reefer madness isn't purely a myth weed does increase your chances of developing psychosis.
Also the negative effects of addiction (I'm not necessarily talking about physical addiction here although I have known people who struggle to sleep or eat when they don't smoke) can have negative effects on your life.
Obviously prison isn't helpful to any of this but just because punishing drug use isn't helpful doesn't mean drugs are good for people
weed does increase your chances of developing psychosis
No, it doesn't. It can exacerbate existing schizophrenic tendencies in people, but the link is clearly not causal given the lack of increase in rates of schizophrenia as cannabis use has increased dramatically.
No no marijuana will make you do psychotic stuff like suck dick, eat hot chip, and gommunism
omg so scared for you honey, hope you got better and didn’t drink out of the wrong fountain while you were sobering up
the rate of that is marginal at best and I’m not going to rehash the drug debates I had with my one white alcoholic uncle at quinceañeras back in the 90’s lol
addiction bad, alcohol, caffeine, and tobaccy more addictive than weed
So you asked a question and got several responses and yet you don't seem to care to engage further?
What's your point here?
Interestingly enough it seems just today they decided to post china struggle bait after posting fairly normally before
idk but unless they deleted it themselves you can still find it in the modlog
When I opened the user's profile, I couldn't see the post. Since I saw mods deleted their other post about China, I thought this was deleted too.
They posted before about China? That’s odd
You can tell when the post has been deleted, the site shows you
Edit:
Removed Post There are still suicide nets for abused workers in China. What's China doing to end these working conditions?
lmfao okay they’re literally a racist troll
All China needs to do is legalize weed and 1 billion new Marxists will be created overnight.
I dunno I think normalizing psychadelic drugs (even if just weed with its relatively minor psychadelic effects) would go a long way with raising class consciousness. It definitely puts things in a different perspective for a lot of people, combined with the commonly reported feeling of the interconnectedness of everything it's not a huge leap from that to communism.
Of course it's not realistic to expect this to happen overnight nor would it be enough in of itself but it would sure as shit help greatly IMO.
We agree on that, I just see it as a separate topic than china’s material and historical reasons for banning different substances
I have never seen anyone become a communist or elude dialectical thinking after taking psycdelics. It all seems to just confirm whatever you already thought, even if it was in hidden in the self consciousness. There's a pretty big fascist psychedelic scene and they obviously have not gotten smarter for it
xi xinfpinf haz all the weed in gyna and keep it for himself
:xicko:
You’ve heard of stalins big spoon, now get ready for…
xi’s massive fuckin blunt 😱😱😱
:anarxi: :nuke: :stalin-smokin:
Yes but mostly those countries did so by addressing material conditions. Also alcohol is a drug so it holds little water to say the USSR had little drug use.
As in giving people hope and addressing the material conditions that led people to escapism, and naturally people will always use drugs in some form and it's obviously bad to crack down on them but at the same time the US and before that the British empire weaponized certain drugs against those places so it's understandable that their governments would take a hard stance on them.
That is the unfortunate truth
Unfortunate how? Humans have been using mind altering substances for as long as we have been human.
Yeah that's fine but this whole post was (admittedly effective) struggle bait.
Is it that effective if most people are just dunking on OP for being a stupid fucking lib?
Well unless they have 17 sockpuppets then some people thought it was worth talking about.
wouldn’t be surprised if they had like half that after some of the cracker-ass fred flintstone motherfuckers I’ve seen lurk here
but past that, we’ve got a handful of spiteful libs, good faith people who are curious, and then bored sickos upvoting bait.
:sicko-yes: :bait:
This site’s demographics are an interactive Kelly cartoon.
:kelly:
It's kinda understandable why they'd hate drugs. Historically, drugs have been intentionally used against the global south to bring them down.
hmm? AES countries have completely different material conditions than the imperial core.
I understand why China has many substances either banned and/or decriminalized.
I can also believe those same substances should be completely legal in the imperial core.
That’s to say nothing of how different china and other AES handle a substance being illegal than the US. Amerika is completely deranged and the breadth of it’s incarceration system is unparalleled. The Amerikan carceral slavery complex is an abomination.
It is a very liberal brained impulse for western chauvinists to assume all country’s governments behave like the united states. They simply do not. Amerika is uniquely and horrifyingly evil.
I have no interest in debating whether china is bad because they don’t want another century of humiliation. I trust they’ll probably legalize such things whenever it eventually works for them as a country.
As to other AES, they should of course be taking notes from imperialist tactics of oppression and adapting accordingly. Not doing so would be negligent.
Death to Amerika. Death to the imperial core. China good.
:amerikka: :xi-lib-tears:
You can support the war on drugs in China and not in the US if you want, but calling my position chauvinist is absurd, especially in view of the harms that enforcement of the drug war has caused in non- western countries, from cartels in Mexico to people being gunned down in the street in the Philippines
Again, you are assuming that two countries still under the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie have the same exact response to drugs being illegal as a country run by communists.
That’s to say nothing of the horrors inflicted on all of those countries by the imperial core and CIA, which have a vested interest in destabilizing both of those countries through… you guessed it… drugs :fidel-wut:
the fact remains that material conditions in countries who are essentially still capitalist are not particularly different from the west
the imperialism and socialism understander has logged on. this sentence makes the rest of the talking points even more impossible to take seriously
that there are large numbers of drug users in these countries and that will continue for the foreseeable future, and they are being harmed by the war on drugs in the same way that people are harmed in the west
Saying China has “a war on drugs” and comparing it to the United States is ignorant. It is based in chauvinism. It is incorrect and boring.
Frankly, it’s also insulting to compare the horrors of the American backed Duterte regime to China as well. Especially since he is engaged in a decades long struggle against communist groups in that country
You have no idea what your talking about. You have no idea of the conditions of the working class in China nor of drug addicts there. You do not understand the international nature of the drug war. Your opinion is an incoherent and idealistic nonsense. And you are disgustingly smug for someone so uninformed.
:wojak-nooo::speech-l:
The working class in China are more free than the working class of the United States.
:deng-smile:
Juvenile idiots like you make this site a real pain in the ass. You are the other side of the coin to reddit anarchists yelling about tankies.
No investigation, no right to speak.
:xi-lib-tears:
Right, because I’ve actually lived for years in an aes country and I’ve also been a drug addict, what is your opinion based on? What you read on an Internet forum? Don’t quote mao at me, take a minute and consider why you have such a strong opinion on something you have no fucking idea about, and why you’re acting like a smug little kid trying to win the internet
mhmm alright. Not giving you doxable info about my life, but I can comfortably stand behind what I’m saying and believe.
:fidel-cool:
Basement dweller
Basement apartments are typically some of the most affordable housing you can get. sorry sweetie, this is classist 💅
You have no idea what your talking about
also *you’re
ftfy
:che-smile:
Yes, it is chauvinist to declare a universal moral ruling onto a different culture with a different history.
Drugs have been used for Western imperialism into China before, they likely don't want a repeat.
America's war on drugs is an explicit war on black people and the poor. The same can not be said for China's stance.
It’s not a western view as much as an extremely understandable defensiveness position after fighting multiple wars against colonizers hell bent on keeping everyone there as addicted to opium / heroin as possible
If you want a socialist country that doesnt have baggage from the opium wars take a look at the DPRK. DPRK weed is street legal and common and sold in popular markets by anyone. One article I read on it said they got some weed from some grandmas
also the weed the article mentioned was bought under supervision of the tour guides and local police
I’m pretty sure really any non-medical drug use (excluding alcohol and caffeine) is a big no-no over there if that’s what your asking.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Yeah. After the opium wars, It’s a pretty understandable policy in China
But opiates and benzos are really easy to get at the hospital if you complain of the right symptoms!
For quite a long while, even as the gov cracked down on weed use (there were some very prominent cases involving celebrities — one shouldn’t ignore how much the gov’s anti-drug campaigns are intertwined with campaigns against celebrity culture, which is a very important context), CBD products were legal and were in fact a booming industry of sorts. But in 2021 they formally banned the production and import (though not use) of CBD products.
The rationale given was that too many CBD products are found to have more than trace amounts of THC and the government thinks it’s too prone to abuse (abuse in the sense that companies will make “CBD” products that are actually high in THC, etc.)
hear me Xi!
China needs to become the world leader in dank cannabis production and export! Chinese Super Weed is the only way to repay the anglos for their terrible Opium crimes. Really cheap and powerful flowers must bloom in China and be sent all across the West to destroy their for-profit weed enterprises!
The US will be crippled as everyone is just stoned as fuck and dealing with cyclical vomiting constantly.
a lot of people cite China's historical relationship with drugs as a reasonable pretense for harsh laws against it.
I however, would challenge the CPC to consider such a philosophy in conversation with policy toward Western Missionaries an equally-or-more harmful societal force, and reasses the drug policy in light of the example of missions in China being apparently in check.
There's a tight control over religion as well - an example is how the CPC went full medieval style in nominating their own bishops for their catholic churches instead of letting the Roman Church select them.
I’m sure they will eventually. I’d be hesitant to lift the bans as well if I was them.
Kicking out the missionaries fully would set off the imperial core. You can mitigate them with functional education systems anyway.
you can mitigate ills of drugs with education and regulation as well
but uh fuck missionaries all my homies hate missionaries 1000000 dead bible bringers
yup. we agree here on principle, but we’re also looking at this from a mostly western lense without much of the historical and cultural background involved in China’s policies.
in other words kick the fucking missionaries out or legalise some drugs. ideally both
Re-education camps for missionaries but it's just making them smoke bowls until they stop being dorks :stalin-smokin:
the problem is the implementation of progressive law is not because the government doesn't want to, it's more the social conservatism of the population. When more that half of chinese population was hooked on opium leading to a social collapse, you tend to ''learn the lessons''
but harsh punishment due to drug posession leads to grave consequences. Yunnan province is the biggest drug trading hub and it's also a province with an AIDS epidemy
if not applying death penalties to drug dealers would lead to a public lynching i suppose i'd get it, but is there evidence that thats where the policy originates? that public outrage at druggists is that high?
''if not applying death penalties to drug dealers would lead to a public lynching i suppose i’d get it''
Twofold with the ideas that i find interesting with this comment. Drug dealing is indeed a crime in China where the government try to control drug trafficking with laws and punishment because the population's general opinion on drug is not good.
What is interesting in the case of Drug users in china is that the population don't regard them well neither. This is a vestige of the Chinese socialist society of the 50s-90s
i would say there is no real policy, it's more an retrospection on the 2 opium wars and the outcome, a lot of Chinese values are shaped by historical events (aka how the collapse of traditional value during cultural revolution came back in forces after the market liberalization in the 90s)
the real policy is harsh laws against use and import of drugs.
if this originates in a popular belief and violence within the people its an uncontrovertible policy the CPC has an obligation to promulgate---but i can find no way to confirm this beyond believing every policy in the PRC is dictated by popular will, which is obviously not true.
It does seem odd that drugs have such a stronger reaction while 10s of millions died in the Taiping Rebellion around the same time.
''you are allowed to beat your brother but you don't let some filthy randos do the same'' -my father
