Honestly hilarious imo
"What a spiteful little bitch you are Putin." - Ritaredditonce +2900
"I'm starting to think this Putin guy might be a bit of a twat." - RudigherJones +413
😂
EDIT - Also I'd like to thank y'all for the amazing thread we've got going here. Real mix of comedy and quality discourse on the material situation
Surprised Pizza Hut didn't step up to bury their favorite spokesman and saint of the neolibs in a pizza box.
If Thatcher didn't get a state funeral in Britain Gorb doesn't get a state funeral in Russia I don't see why the fuck redditors think he (or anyone) deserves state funerals paid for by the taxpayer. Fuck off.
:very-smart:
lenin would have shot stalin for being a liberal if he knew the future
Unironically Stalin was too meek and trusting in the post-war, but hindsight.
Its funny the longer you're exposed to the reality of what happened during the 20th century, you realize the degree to which most cultures around the world simply could not understand the degree of cold, calculated, sociopathic supremacy the US would fall in line with, time after time. The US, and really the west in general, is and has been under a spell of supremacy culture based violence that's shaped the world for thousands of years. The US was the end result of all of this, "manifest destiny" and the great purge and ransack of the entire newly "discovered" continent was a shock of a scale humanity had not yet seen, and has not seen since. Hitler could only dream of emulating the project of north america. All the western "opponents" of the past hundred years have all made the fatal mistake of overestimating our humanity. The western project is not one of humanism, and never was.
Probably totally tangent from your point, but 🤷♀️
I'm talking about the immediate years after, not the 50s. Throwing the Greek communists under the bus, for example.
America used nukes in 1945 to end WW2 and that was the most dangerous time for the Soviets because they did not have any.
America did not have a "stockpile" so to speak, until 1950. And even by then, other non-nuclear powers could afford to toe around the line around it, like China in the Korean war. And I'm not even talking about something as "brash" as that either. The Red Army was practically a stone's throw away from the Greek Civil War and had other means of keeping the West out (ie the fact that communist parties were empowered in newly liberated France and Italy). That alone could have extended WARPAC's reach and possibly averted Yugoslavia's split from the Warsaw Pact, even if there were other sources of tension.
The reason they didn't go through with it was largely because the RKKA reached its near-breaking point and leadership wanted to get reconstruction back on track. Even the slightest provocation is something they were wary of. Which is understandable.
Trotsky being an anti-Semite is huge brain
The dude during the civil war was just going around liberating Jewish villages from the tsar and stopping pogroms done by the White Army, and he’s Jewish himself
Like how the fuck is he an anti-semite
Like how the fuck is he an anti-semite
He obviously wasn't sufficiently pro-israel.
Funny thing is that he actually spoke out against Zionism on more than one occasion.
Doesn't stop :frothingfash: from thinking he's part of the (((conspiracy))). So :reddit-logo: thinking he was an antisemite is doubly funny.
:bird-screm-2: red okrana antisemitic trotsky soviet pogroms
oh yeah its reddit time
The purges started before the Civil War was over
REDDITOR USE CRITICAL THINKING CHALLENGE (IMPOSSIBLE)
Motherfucker.
How DARE the USSR be so mean to their enemies in an existential war. So authoritarian!
Russians have only spoken to me about Gorbachev one time, and it was them (completely unsolicited) telling me how much they hate him.
mr gorbchev i love you i miss you im gogin to throw you a state funeral if mr russia wont he wont get away with this
THE SECRET HISTORY TANKIES DON'T WANT YOU TO KNOW
GORBIUS ENDED THE IRON CURTAINHE SAID IT'S GORBIN TIME AND PERESTROIKA'D ALL OVER THOSE RED FASH CLOWNS
TANKIES DON'T EVEN KNOW HISTORY
THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT THE IRON CURTAIN
YOU KNOW?
WHEN RUSSIA PUT UP A BIG FAT WALL AGAINST THE WEST FOR NO REASON (THIS IS WHY TRUMP IS A TANKIE TOO)
JUST TO BE BIG MEANIES
THEY DID THE NUCULAR WEAPONS AND THE COOZE AGAINST GOOD WHOLESOME CAPITALISTS AND THE RED FASH IMPERIALISM FOR 50 YEARS ON MILLIONS OF INNOCENTS
THEY MADE THE LONG BREAD LINES AND ATE ALL THE GRAIN WITH THE BIG SPOON
THE WEST TRIED TO BE SO REASONABLE TO THEM
BUT THE EVIL SOVIETS DECIDED TO BE MEAN FOR NO REASON AND FORM AN OFFENSIVE ALLIANCE (1955) CALLED THE 'WAR SAW PACT' BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO
GO TO WARANDSAW PEOPLE IN HALFAND THEY WERE NOSTALGIC ABOUT THEIRPACT WITH THE NAZISTHEN AFTER THAT (1949) THE WEST MADE A BIG FAMILY CALLED NATO AND LET EVERYONE IN INCLUDING THE FORMER NAZIS WHO CLEANED UP THEIR ACT (UNLIKE THE SOVIETS) AND PROMISED TO PLAY NICE WITH THE CIA AND THE UN AND THE EU COMMISSION. THEY CLEANED UP THEIR ACT SO GOOD THEY GOT TO JOIN ALL THOSE ORGANIZATIONS.
BUT THE BIG MEANIE SOVIET UNION HAD TO HAVE IT THEIR WAY. THEY TRIED TO JOIN NATO TO BE BIG BULLIES (1954) BUT THE WEST STOOD UP TO THEM AND SAID "NO, YOU HAVE TO BE NICE BEFORE YOU CAN JOIN"
THE WEST TRIED TO GIVE THE SOVIET UNION A VERY BIG LOAN CALLED THE MARSHALL PLAN. ALL THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO DO IS PAY BACK 9999999% INTEREST AND STOP DOING EVIL COMMUNISM AND LET MARKETS FIGURE EVERYTHING OUT WITH THE INVISIBLE HAND.
BUT THEY DIDN'T ATTEND ECONOMICS 101 SO THEY REJECTED THE WEST'S VERY MODEST AND REASONABLE OFFER
THE ONLY GUY WHO DID ECONOMICS 101 WAS GORBACHEV, AND BECAUSE OF HIM EVERYONE NOW HAS A TOOTHBRUSH
DON'T READ EVIL TANKIE LIE HISTORY. TANKIES INVENTED NUKES JUST TO BE MEAN. THE USA THEN MADE THEIR OWN DEFENSIVELY.
THIS POST BROUGHT TO YOU BY NATO GANG :funny-clown-hammer:
(user was banned by red fash tankies for this post)THEY WANTED TO GO TO WAR AND SAW PEOPLE IN HALF
well sometimes the pit is too small to throw whole nazis into it
Hmm the Russian Government is not holding the state funeral for the Pizza Hut Advertisement Star? Is it because he is massively unpopular in Russia? No, it's definitely a part of Evil Putlers 10000 year master plan.
fuck you putler, you're worst than stalin!
i hope atleast they bury me next to Pizzahut :sleepi:
It's speculated that he's dealing with cancer right now and the Ukrainian genocide he's currently committing was an attempt at a legacy building moment.
They really still think the war came out of nowhere completely unprovoked, and are making up reasons why it happened.
I was a redditor once. There are a lot of potential Tankies in there they just need to be pushed the right way. Of course there are some terminal cases in there but they are also helpful in turning the others into tankies. a debate needs opposition and the more rabid the terminal redditors are the easier we have it to push rational people to accept Marx into their hearts.
The problem is that debate is not allowed on reddit anymore. Anyone who voices even the mildest of reasonable responses gets either downvoted to obscurity or more likely banned.
I completely agree with what you said, but it's moot when the all conversation and discourse is being cultivated by the mods such that only a liberal and pro-west narrative can be heard, no matter how ridiculous it is. Reddit is astroturfed to he'll now. There was a reason the chapo sub was banned and it had nothing to do with advocacy for killing slave owners.
Dunk the mods in acid for sure. maybe one day I'll get up the patience and go back there to try to liberate minds but right now I'm too fiery and just get banned in a few days at the best.
Acid-dunking anyone aside, I am just commenting on how infuriating it is that it has been made all but impossible to liberate minds when you are never allowed to even be heard. I 100% agree with you that we should still be trying to argue and counter liberal bullshit, advocate for reason wherever we can.
It's amazing how much Liberals are showing their ass with Gorby's death.
You'd think the mere fact that Comrade Pizza Hut is celebrated in the West but reviled in his own fucking country (and other parts of the world) would steer them into the right direction.
"Why are the Russians not too keen hosting a state funeral for the guy who
plunged them into dark timesgave them freedom. Am I a chauvinist with tunnel vision? No, it is simply because Gorbachev was too good for them!"I think this past year or two has been one where all of the flavors of liberal are finally diverging from the left 'socialist' pipelines and showing themselves for what they always were. Depressingly, the circles remaining seem much smaller, but then again I'm sure anyone that went through the early 2000s would say we are much better positioned culturally than then. Pretty clear as soon as Biden got into office that the overarching policy guidelines would be that of silence and immediate quelling of any popular energy.
Gonna be interesting to see how long it takes for another wave our direction. The liberals are making fools of themselves in broad daylight increasingly every day that passes since COVID began, but the bill has not yet come due. Its been building and we've all been feeling it, only a matter of time.
I wouldn't resign myself on libs just yet. Many people who are committed Marxists today were mindlessly parroting HK Protest talking points yesterday (I would know personally). But yes, it is a headache to go through now, even if we will get our "payout" later.
^ This absolutely. The circles might by smaller but a good portion of those who opted to fall in line with the safe "left" (libs) than risking social pariah status for
asking for proof of WMDsquestioning the narrative on Ukraine will quite soon be further and faster radicalized left when the ROI on this wars propaganda becomes too unpalatable for the ruling class and they move on to a fresh war to inflate their weapons stock prices because of aonce,twice,three timesfour in a lifetime economic recession. That's when the veil fades and anyone who was on the fence notices all their lib friends back at brunch and starts aggressively posting about how we can't trust the US narrative on new forever war. That's how they end up in this comment thread as principled non chauvinists, etc.Each time the cycle repeats we grow, we get popular, they get worried, we lose 70% of our new growth back to libs, then 25% return permanently. Rinse, repeat. Capitalisms self destruction is inevitable because they cannot survive against themselves and dial back the greed even one iota or be consumed be those who don't. Natural selection of the poorest outcome. Obv I'm making up numbers to illustrate a point and we cannot "sit and wait for it to happen" or whatever, but my point is their bandaids never quite stop the hemmoraging self inflicted gun shot wound.
Edit: To put it another way that I've seen stated before (paraphrasing) "The first world war led to the Soviet Union, the second world war led to the entire planet divided into two spheres of influence, communist and capitalist. Capitalism cannot survive their next."
Damn, sometimes I think, is Putin secretly really bitter about the fall of communism and is he hiding his power levels?
Like, I’m not sure why Putin would hate Gorby, aside from him facilitating the fall of the Soviet Union which kind of benefited Putin’s oligarchic agenda.
I mean Gorby is pretty universally disliked in Russia these days, its a fairly easy political boost at minimum, but also Putin certainly despises Gorby for dismantling the power of the former USSR and handing it over to the US to be sold off to the highest bidder.
I doubt Putin is in any way marxist in the way that we define things, but frankly I dont know enough background and cultural relevancy to have a solid opinion on Putin lol
Putin chased away the vultures that were feeding on the corpse of Russia, stitched soviet nostalgia into its skin and made it walk upright, for now. It is however a frankenstein's monster and the stitching will eventually come apart.
I like this take - I think Russia is in uncharted waters historically, it could go a number of different directions. Does a long history of socialist/communist education within a larger national/cultural identity withstand decades of post-fall ad-hoc capitalist stop-gap measures? Will another collapse lead the way Marxists would hope or would we see another autocracy?
I think its impossible for any western analysts to speculate with any degree of certainty, always need to remember our place in national/cultural self determination.
with China having shown itself as a successful example of what could be a socialist model for the rest of the world
liked the rest of the post a lot, but i don't think this is correct
i do think most of what china did was correct for their particular material conditions (not just domestically, but geopolitically as well), but if i ever had a revolution in my own country it should be vastly different
In my opinion a collapse must not happen in the conditions that we currently see in the world. It would be taken over by the western imperialists and turned into another front against China which is their true target.
I think the major marxist victories in the past have occurred in these ways:
-
WW1 + 2. Soviet Union and China. These victories could not have been won without such large distractions sucking up resources of the imperialists.
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Supported by Soviet Union. Many of the african and middle east victories.
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Blindspot. These marxist victories were accidents that the imperialists weren't paying enough attention to and didn't realise the significance of until too late. (Cuba for example)
Russia will not be a blindspot to the imperialists. It can only be won by communists at a time when the imperialists are in such deep crisis and/or distraction that they can not interfere. Until that time arises I oppose any attempt to collapse it as it will absolutely not work out in our favour.
It is not enough that revolution occurs, it must occur in the correct conditions for marxists to be the winners of it.
:100-com:
A current revolt with the imperialists fixated on Russia would 100% be quickly taken over by color revolution liberals and their fascist militant arm even if it didn’t start out that way. A communist revolution in Russia will only occur after the imperialist nations collapse or are infighting
This is partially why I think China has been pushing so hard on the sovereignty issue.
If national sovereignty is respected and outside interference in countries is stopped then homegrown communist revolutions legitimately become possible. As it currently stands it is fucking impossible because homegrown revolutionaries can rarely compete with the CIA and their funding/support for opposition.
Problem is there isn’t much you can do to counteract spook shit except your own counter-spook shit. Otherwise you are just naively believing the lies of their politicians saying they aren’t up to anything, and you are a sitting duck for their actions.
China can say to respect sovereignty all day long, but at the end of the day the US can just coup Pakistan their “iron brothers” and ally and China just sits there doing nothing
China is going to need to emerge from their cocoon of ignoring geopolitical realities, shielded by their economic ties to the west
See and I think they do focus their spook shit, but it is entirely on buying American politics. Even American conservatives especially the biggest employers, cannot resist the siren song of China's cheap markers, and so will never truely get rid of that economic and political relationship.
Basically their position is still on trying to keep that shielding up, which makes sense for them militarily.
As it currently stands it is fucking impossible because homegrown revolutionaries can rarely compete with the CIA and their funding/support for opposition.
let's not overrate the CIA, they're not an all-powerful entity
i know we talk about the blunders that happened during trump's term as if they were his own, but imperialism is weakening and has been so for the past few years regardless of who happened to be in charge
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Dude was one of the vvultures. He stole like 100 million as advisor to a mayor right after the fall and Russia only kinda recovered cus new source of oil was needed during Iraq war. He's just a really competent yes man cus soviet education is fire
Lmao. The dude was twerking at the west and tried to join NATO. He only wake up when the west intention is to subjugated his country and want to turn it into another Poland. Satellite state without nuclear weapons
“The colonized nation only became anti-imperialist when it started getting colonized”
No shit, cut the moralism and look at outcomes
I don’t expect imperialist nations to be anti-imperialist. I expect them to be destroyed by anti-imperialists and from their own contradictions.
Likewise, saying Russia is bad because their anti-imperialism isn’t pure or ideological, merely out of necessity, fails to grasp the entire concept of materialist analysis. There’s no such thing as “good” or “bad” using this specific lens on geopolitics and class struggle and the direction of imperialism. Russia is not the “bad” sub-type of anti-imperialism because their intentions are impure. They are just anti-imperialist because they oppose the imperialists, regardless of the reason for doing so
I’m deeply sorry you cannot grasp materialism and are stuck in idealism and moralism as a framework
Yes.
A Marxist lens does not require any morality whatsoever, and the injection of it vulgarizes its analysis. You start thinking in utopian judgments, such as your earlier comment imagining that all nations could be anti-imperialist in a world system of imperialist capitalism. This is not possible and is a utopian dream.
Imperialism isn’t defeated by the imperialists deciding to knock it off after they have been scolded for being naughty and have a change of heart. It’s ended by the movement of history and violent struggle by the forces and interests opposed to it, and by its own contradictions.
At this current point in time, the Russian federation is one of the most powerful forces opposed to the empire and is therefore by definition de facto anti-imperialist. No mind reading, ideology or anything else required just brute facts and interests
To say that he was always antagonistic to the west is so contrary to the evolution of Russia under Putin. He was effectively privatizing industries and liberalizing the economy, painted as the savior that would heal the relationships between Russia and the West on Time, and whatever prestige shit rag being published in the west at the time.
It's only after he discovered the West will always be xenophobic against Russia and see it as a hostile power that he changed his tune and nationalized some of the same industries he helped tear apart.
Putin mostly led nationalizing efforts after Yeltsin privatized everything. Please stop talking about Russian politics if you are just going off of vibes
Let’s take a look at the timeline of Gazprom ownership as an example that is indicative of the bigger picture:
1943: Gas production was centralized under the Soviet state
1989: Established as the first state run corporate entity
1992: Privatized by Yeltsin. Sold off as shares to connected cronies. Given tax exemption loopholes and deregulated. Asset stripping started.
2000: Putin comes to power and re-nationalizes Gazprom. Fires the corrupt chairman crony running it and installed his own clique of loyal bureaucrats. Stops asset stripping and orders other companies to return what was stolen. Private entities were regulated and forbidden from exporting gas, only Gazprom and the state held the option. Protectionist tariffs were used and state subsidies to build up capacity
It’s not socialism, but calling Putin’s politics “oligarchy” and “neoliberal” is simply incorrect and conflates him with those forces within Russia that he is opposed to. It would be more accurate to label Putin a protectionist nationalist and anti-imperialist, most similar analogue I can think of would be Gaddafi or Lukashenko. There’s a reason why people preferred Libya under Gaddafi over the neoliberal market anarchy of today, and why Belarus has a better standard of living than the rest of Eastern Europe & why Russia reversed economic course under Putin and differed drastically from Yeltsin’s market anarchy.
If he’s just a competent western comprador vulture like the rest then why is he so uniquely reviled by the west? He’s clearly not the lapdog traitor the others were because he nationalized industry and recovered the Russian economy
He did tried to join the west circle once. Let’s not forget that, it’s when the west reject him and want to subjugate his nation, that when he wake up
Sure but he didn’t. Why are people here so obsessed with mind reading and moralizing intentions?
All that matters is outcome, and at the end of the day Putin stands in opposition to the neoliberal imperialists and the “oligarchs” in his own nation have a complicated and adversarial relationship with his government. That’s a fact.
It doesn’t matter if a man fights off the imperialist invader for principled anti-imperialist reasons or just to regain control over his home. He’s still fighting them.
Yes but he also browbeat the national bourgeoisie incredibly hard and brought them all into line. It is inarguable that the conditions of the average Russian has been improved by him in doing so, partially why it hasn't fallen apart yet.
Putin’s oligarchic agenda
Did you learn these words for westoid libs? Russia is not any more “oligarchic” than the bourgeois dictatorships of the west, it’s a buzzword like “regime” to scare you into thinking Russia is uniquely evil.
Putin’s agenda has been mostly anti-oligarch, in that he had to destroy their organized crime networks and privatized power to consolidate his own. Putin is seen in Russia as the force combatting oligarchs, who are seen as liberal and pro-west . Putin’s favorability increased with the invasion of Ukraine because it proved to Russians that he sides against the comprador “oligarchs” and the western capital they support, many people thought he was too moderate on them before. Dozens of “oligarchs” (Russian bourgeoise) who criticized the invasion have shown up dead since the war, Putin is further consolidating power and further purging western capitalist oligarchs
Sure but I don’t see radlibs going around constantly calling Germany or Finland oligarchies or fascist every time they are mentioned, and accusing Scholz or Marin of fulfilling an “oligarchic agenda”. It only cuts one way, like “regime” because it’s brainwashing with connotation and repetition that even westerners here have not fully purged from themselves
Well it’s further amplified by the fact that the Russian so-called oligarchs are the comprador class that sold out Russia in the 90s under Yeltsin. So the “oligarchs” Russia gets blamed for all the time are in fact the agents of the very same Western capitalist forces that posture to be “anti-oligarch”. They are using the existence of their own cronies to blame the victim they are sucking dry.
Liberals don’t know anything about Russian politics, and don’t realize that these western compradors are antagonistic with Putin who is struggling with them constantly for control
So the western nations back foreign “oligarch compradors” and are run entirely by capitalists domestically - not an oligarchy.
Colonized nations who have been infested with western cronies forcing neoliberal capitalism onto them - oligarchies apparently
you realize it’s not just western compradors who had enormous influence among the ruling class but other billionaires as well?
you think someone like Roman Abramovic was a Western comprador or do you think he was some venerable oil magnate that totally has Russia’s best interests at heart?
Every single oligarch that was made in the 90s is a western comprador, it was a western project to loot the nation and they were the local mafiosos enabling it. By definition, they are all western compradors just like every mafioso under Bautista in Cuba was a western comprador regardless of how “patriotic” they pretended to be.
I’ll shut up when you stop going around calling US enemy states by the names the US state department has taught you
I literally do not give a single fuck about using the correct label for Russia’s current political system, US state department enemy or not.
If you wanna cry and shid your pants because I called Putin an oligarch, go ahead.
Ok liberal. You probably called Assad a fascist during the Syrian Civil War like your programmers told you to
You really inferred all this because I said something mildly negative about Putin lmao
No because you repeat western liberal brainworms and refuse to self-criticize about your repetition of western framed propaganda. Criticize Putin in a Marxist way, not in this Liberal framing with words taught to you by radlibs in the west
Keep going around calling Assad fascist, Putin an oligarch, KJU a monarch & Castro a dictator. You are stuck in your tiny little liberal world and lash out angrily and anyone who pokes and disturbs your homeostatic bubble
Criticize Putin in a Marxist way, not in this Liberal framing with words taught to you by radlibs in the west
:yes-comm:
Well known anti-oligarchism
Just say capitalism. Why do foreign nations get called feudal/barbaric/oligarchic (a pre-feudal order) while the west is capitalist? It’s all just capitalist, use real Marxist terms
Why do foreign nations get called feudal/barbaric/oligarchic (a pre-feudal order) while the west is capitalist?
Yes, the west is oligarchic. People on this site call the west an oligarchy all the fucking time.
No they don’t, they call it capitalist and specifically neoliberal. That is an accurate Marxist description. Oligarchy is pre-feudal classical economic order and has no utility to Marxist analysis. You mean to say capitalism, so say capitalism.
yeah, i just don't really care. neoliberal, capitalist, oligarch, whatever the fuck the label is for Russia, it's not communist. I'm unplugging.
western framed propaganda. Criticize Putin in a Marxist way, not in this Liberal framing
Please explain to me the 'Liberal' framing in my halfhearted comment.
The unique use of “oligarchic agenda” applied to Russians is such a common Liberal trope that you are blind to it.
Because the former took a powerful state and looted and collapsed it, while the latter took a collapsed state and rebuilt it.
It’s not that complex or ideological. Gorby presided over massive drops in quality of life, while Putin presided over increases in quality of life. Simple as.
he was only interested in soviet hegemony, he's often described communism as 'a fool's economic system'.
