I've really started to hate it when women like what I like. What can I do to change this?
Do you have any friends that are women? Maybe get to know one and you'll see her interests are her own, not your interests that she also likes
I agree with this. You really need to understand that other people are coming to you as complete human beings with life experiences leading up to this point. They are not a plot device in your life story.
It is hard to remember that every single person you interact with has an entire world inside their head. If you keep that in mind, you'll be okay!
"The normies are NPCs" is a cognitiohazard that has been spreading around the internet lately and it's also favored by :my-hero: and related bazinga chuds so they can feel like the special chosen one main characters of epic destiny.
It's solipsism as folk religion, basically. It's easy to think that just because something is impossible to disprove it's true.
I mean I'm autistic, so I literally am not really able to incorporate that level of meta-cognition into my mental-framework on a day-to-day basis w/ regards to interacting with other people.
So like, wtf am I supposed to do here exactly?
Oh I'm autistic, too! I often have to remove myself from the person/situation that's bothering me and give myself reminders - I repeat that line about "everybody has a world inside their head" like a mantra. You can come to understand these concepts from a neurodivergent framework with practice. It also helps if you can get into psychology and philosophy as special interests.
I guess the real question I have is how do practically live in the world like that though, and manage to have your own needs met? Cause it seems like it's impossible to really meet people at a level of reciprocity today. IDK, maybe this is just me.
Oh it is absolutely not just you. Don't expect reciprocity because most people won't give it to you. That's okay, you don't do it because of the response you receive - you do it because it's right and it will make you feel better to do the right thing. This goes double for us neurodivergents.
The flipside of this is that it actually helps you to advocate for your own needs more easily. When you consider someone's personhood and their full range of experiences, you realize that asking for your needs to be met will hardly register as a blip to the other person. Your weird behaviors that you are constantly trying to mask? They stop thinking about those things two seconds after you leave the room. And so you begin to lose a little bit of that rejection sensitivity because you're able to see that their responses largely have nothing to do with you.
Idk, this has just been my journey lately. Good luck, bud - it's a tough world for little things like us.
You're already taking a positive first step because you've acknowledged you're having a problem, I think.
A good next step would be to internalize and accept that women liking what you like is fine because they are fellow human beings. It can take time and emotional effort, but internalizing that sort of radical acceptance can do a world of good. If you're interested in dating women, it can even help there. The "women are weird and strange and alien" :brainworms: are what trip incels up all the time and make them resent and hate women while the women did nothing really to deserve that hatred.
I'm just trying to acknowledge it before It gets out of hand. I think i've been spending too much time in class reductionist circles on the internet. I'm a marxist leninist but been hanging around the wrong types of MLS.
I’m just trying to acknowledge it before It gets out of hand.
I sincerely believe the fact that you're making that effort means you're not too far gone.
Women are comrades too. As Mao put it, women hold up half the sky. :ranmao:
I’m a marxist leninist but been hanging around the wrong types of MLS
just acknowledging this is a great step for personal progress. there are "MLs" out there who are straight up neocons. patsocs, larouchites, and most trots are just awful.
"To be aware of one's own mistakes and yet make no attempt to correct them, taking a liberal attitude towards oneself. This is an eleventh type [of liberalism]" -Mao. self crit is very important for communists, good on you for working to correct yourself.
as other hexbears mentioned, meet women. befriend them. try to make it strictly platonic. treat them like people! if you have problems at first, imagine you are talking to a guy friend (this attitude shouldnt be permanent but its a good temporary method of correction). its hard to find friends in the modern world but most dating apps have "friend modes". talk to ppl at bars if you go to them. join an online group of ppl local to you, the Socialist Rifle Association and other socialist orgs are great for this, in the SRA state chapters have discords with chats for each region of the state.
read some feminist literature. i need to brush up on socialist feminist theory myself, but Rosa Luxemburg is great! and she has some essays on women's liberation. socialist suffragists are cool, try Dora Montefiore.
and read settlers .
Yeah, you want to get out of those places. Not just because of misogyny, but also racism. Habits can be hard to break, so it would be a good idea to put up some barriers between you and them. Delete your account if it's something you log in to, that kind of thing. It's too easy to just slide right back in to what you're used to, even when you know it's not good for you. Some of the more technologically inclined users here might be able to help you with some ideas for putting up other barriers for yourself.
As for why you resent it when women enjoy the same things you enjoy, I think @Kanna and @macabrett have already given you the best answers. I would just add that it is probably worthwhile to really dig in to where your desire to see women as "other" is coming from. Why is it fine if another guy likes [thing] but not OK if a woman does? I'm guessing there's some resentment there that you need to unpack for your own mental health. Remember that we're just people too, with our likes and dislikes, strengths and weaknesses, etc. You said somewhere else that you're struggling with depression, so I'm guessing you're probably having a hard time being kind to yourself right now, and maybe you're having a hard time being kind to others as well. If it's something you can afford, I can't recommend therapy highly enough.
I’ve really started to hate it when women like what I like.
are you sexually attracted to women? If so, then I would suggest therapy because you don't want to dive into full blown misogyny which might be where you're headed. If therapy is not an option, start hobbies where you can regularly meet women (and not necessarily for romance).
OR OR, you could channel that budding misogyny inside of you into misandry and just a general phobia for all people regardless of gender and race, which is healthier....I think.
Yes I am. I don't want to end up one of those pigs that starts thinking women are explicitly just sex objects. I want to catch myself before that happens. Obviously this is not my main account, I just wanted to reach out for help here anonymously
Firstly, these terms such as incel are toxic and awful ways of characterizing yourself. You are obviously a self-aware person, you're on this site so you are obviously not a stupidpol idiot. You're a human bean with real needs and we live in a time when young people are socially alienated and atomized.
Don't think of yourself as an incel.
There's like 4 billion women, they're not that scary when you get to know them
This is going to sound like a flippant question, but it's sincere, how much porn do you consume? Do you, or did you ever spend a lot of time on the internet viewing pornography? You don't have to answer, but if you are consuming a lot of porn, you should stop and access therapy if you're able. Even if you did previously, but no longer do, therapy is probably a good idea. I've never met an incel that didn't have a dysfunctional relationship with their sexuality, and usually it's because of porn.
^^^ THIS
porn causes SO MANY problems and dysfunctional views toward women are one of them. OP read https://easypeasymethod.org/ to help quit
Ayy I'm glad easpypeasy is gaining traction. Porn normalization needs to go
On the one hand, we’re a very excepting bunch.
On the other hand, there are now apparently nofappers here.
Sex work in the abstract vs. Sex work under capitalism is an important distinction to people, so lots of leftists have different takes on pornography because of this. I think porn made under capitalism is awful, and whether it's liberatory to some people does not offset the massive problem it is for most women involved. It is also socially different from other work because you won't lose most jobs if it came to light you worked in a factory or as a plumber, but you can lose a job if your boss finds out you were in porn. So it's a tricky topic.
i don't mean criticisms of the porn industry, i mean treating porn like a moral hazard like are we catholic now
i think it's really funny that all the blurbs on that self help pdf are from redditors and 4channers tho
It's not that porn is a moral hazard, but that most porn under capitalism is designed to be as addictive as possible, and propagates the dominant patriarchal attitudes toward sex. The criticism that porn makes people more misogynist is no different from the criticism that social media algorithms funnel people toward right wing content.
It's possible to consume porn healthily even under capitalism, but a porn addiction is a surprisingly prevalent issue. If you're spending significant amounts of time every day exposing yourself to the sexist attitudes of mainstream porn that's going to affect how you see the world.
There's a defnitely people who treat it as a weird moral thing though, especially among chuds and SWERFs. I think it's important for leftists to offer a counter narrative and show that porn isn't the problem, it's just (as always) capitalism making it as exploitative as possible.
I watch it all the time. I haven't had a meaningful relationship with a woman in like 4 years. I don't want to blame porn entirely because It can be a useful tool for a healthy sexuality, but I will say it almost had me viewing woman as sex objects with wanton lust before I caught myself and told myself I was becoming fucked in the head.
Pretty insightful question honestly. You seem to have hit the nail partway on the head.
This world we live in has us all feeling isolated and alone. I'm not saying porn is bad or evil in and of itself, but it can contribute to some unhealthy attitudes towards women. It's probably something you should put away for now, though. Go out and connect with people. Hopefully you can find some folks in your area doing mutual aid. The best thing for you right now is to be part of a community out in the real world.
It's difficult to sincrerly hate someone in real life. You probably need to get to know more women IRL. It's certainly helped me
I definitely have hated rich white people, cordial yes but when the revolution comes they get the wall for being absolute pigs.
It’s difficult to sincrerly hate someone in real life.
Either this isn't true, I am an exception, or I have been in some unusual circumstances for my whole life.
Well, it depends. Your landlord? Sure. Abusive parent? Absolutely. A random woman or black person you've never met before? Your childhood friend who's career has taken off whilst you're still stuck in retail? No. You might think you hate those people, but it's only ever an outward projection of your own insecurities or trauma.
I've known people who turned out to be rapists, I know people who have personally betrayed me. And I've had dozens of racists drift through my life. It's not hard for me to hate people who do not have power over me.
I think it just means it's really hard to hate someone over a nitpick in real life, as opposed to when you imagine someone double parking or whatever and you want them to die
Adding an exception: it's easy to sincerely hate people if you work retail, food service, or other customer service jobs
assuming you consider customers to be "people" anyway
No I agree, that's why I came on here and asked for outside advice. I know almost everyone here is either a woman or has healthy relationships with women. So I wanted an outside view of some resentments I had that knew were ridiculous.
This might be better suited for a therapist, but why do you hate it when women like what you like? What justifies it in your own head? Is it just a knee-jerk reaction? When I have knee-jerk reactions that I know are not right, I try to challenge myself and figure out what's at the root of it. A therapist is good for this when it's a deeper issue. Often I find, simply challenging myself on my own reaction once triggers something where every time I come across that scenario, I remember when I challenged myself, and it keeps me on solid ground (if that makes sense).
I'm struggling to understand why you feel the way you do, but that's just what it's like having different lives and life experiences.
To cover some quick topics that I felt were bad advice:
- I highly advise not seeing sex workers until you deal with your potentially growing incel tendencies. While it is extremely difficult to be a caring, emotionally developed man, that is entirely different from potentially radicalizing int he incel direction.
- Do not go down the anti Porn trail, which from what I remember, is highly laden in right wing paths to inceldom. Porn doesn't make you an incel. Anyone telling you porn makes you an incel is doing bad by you. Porn can be a symptom of other dysfunctions, but it is simply a symptom.
It is really hard to come up with advise without knowing much about you. Whatever is feeding this turn is coming from inside the house, in my opinion, and probably has external factors. If you can seek therapy. Journal. Read things like The Will to Change by bell hooks and Beyond Pink and Blue by Leslie Feinberg. Take time out or your week to think about yourself and any pain you have had in your life. Try to deal with it. Connect with your emotions.
If you're sexually attracted to women, have high standards for the men involved in your life. Straight dudes are some of the worst people around. You might not be aware but the straight up misogyny shit that straight dudes like to put out when women are not around, can and will feed into your brain. Challenge them and don't let them spew that in your presence and if they can't respect that, cut people out of your life. Make friends with women and only keep male friends that respect them and do not make them feel uncomfortable.
Finally, since you are attracted to women, you need to create a life that is emotionally fulfilling even if you were never to enter a relationship. I hope that you are able to handle this and you experience a fulfilling relationship but that is not the extent of life and if it were never to happen, you can still have an enjoyable and fulfilling life. Romantic relationships are not the sole reason for living. A romantic relationship does not define you.
Edit: fixed capitalization in bell hooks name. I wasn't aware.
Yeah this is correct. Porn can absolutely be destructive in some people's lives, cause ED, etc. Everything in moderation is the key, but if you're unable to moderate porn consumption it's best to avoid it.
But you absolutely don't want to get involved with the nofap/semen retention freaks. They're a cult-level group that absolutely trend towards hating women and blaming them for their problems.
Sure that's probably fair. I think the effect it has on people varies quite a bit depending on certain factors though.
when her obituary didn't do the thing, i was sad. then they fixed it.
rip queen bell hooks
damn dude that's fucked up. well thanks for making an account on these forums, hope you get over it.
So, you've heard all the W takes about emotional development and therapy. Ready for a fringe, L take? Sub to c/fitness. Hit the gym. Diet down or get gains. Get a more aesthetically pleasing body. People will probably start treating you better. It'll be more difficult to care about anyone else's flaws when all you can think about is food and how disappointed you are that you only got 3 of your 5 reps squatting 165kg because you can't carry the revolution on your back because the revolution weighs AT LEAST 4 plates. Henry Rollins said it best when he said, "Friends may come and go but 200lbs is 200lbs."
More aesthetic -> people treat you more nicely -> easier to enjoy having them around -> regular relationship problems instead of being an incel
nah this is a big W; his issue with women liking things he likes is collateral to something deeper.
There's a very real subcategory of incels called gymcels that do otherwise positive exercise and diet changes to their lives but don't address their own internalized misogyny or other toxic "blackpill" bullshit and so remain lonely and in some cases more bitter and now more physically capable of hurting other people.
I hope dearly that this does not become the case here.
That doesn't automatically or magically fix things. I have distant relatives in rural areas, and without doxxing myself too much, one has been a lifelong misogynist with a far too large gun collection, doesn't even have a smartphone let alone a computer, and may very well have already been involved in a few hate crimes in his local area.
:logout: is a cute meme but it isn't an instant fix for some people.
okay, i apprecate that experience.
online is not necessary to make one a reactionary, though i do feel like the flavor of "incels" is definitely an online phenonemon. and though there are certainly more and less healthy online discourses, i think, if one is struggling, pulling the plug would be helpful, when it's in conjunction w/ doing things with people in real life, seeing a therapist, taking care of one's physical self, and so on.
I actually agree with you there.
In the case of that distant relative, I feel his isolation (much of it voluntary; he's one of those "jackbooted thugs from the UN on black helicopters" old fashioned chuds) is actually making his problems worse, though to be fair if he logged into something he'd almost instantly find Q!non cultists to add more :brainworms: to what he already believes.
Well, you have to consider
Leftist sympathies +1
Being aesthetic af +1
Based as hell c/fitness mod (me) +1
Zizeksniffer's gonna make it
Seek out women who like what you like but that you don't want to date, just for friendships. Hang out with your local lesbians and women older than your dating age range.
You mean incel as like... as a personality, not just being a straight virgin who can't have sex? Because those are different things with different solutions I think
Every single incel forum and community is misogynistic. It doesn’t mean involuntary celibate. The misogynists who identified with the term incel changed the meaning of the term. The term is referring to a specific misogynistic ideology.
"There's glory for you!"
"I don't know what you mean by 'glory'," Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't - till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you'!"
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more or less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be Master - that's all."
-- Alice in Wonderland
So when I explain that words mean what they mean, and the powerful redefine them whenever they want...
...you respond by quoting the powerful who redefined words.
OK.
Incel is an abbreviation of "involuntarily celibate." THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!
