This site is hilarious.
https://raddle.me/f/196/158044/sisters-and-brothers-i-come-with-grave-news-i-appears-that
it's cropped out here, but the image attached to the original post on raddle is a U.S. Navy recruitment poster edited to encourage shooting at "tankies"
Rad libs will always tell on themselves
"Fight fascism" by shooting leftists and stand for equality and peace by supporting imperialist warmonger capitalism, classic SPD move :rosa-shining:
Social democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism.
I wish that was just some stupid thing we say to piss them off but it's just true. It's just true. They'll spend so much time shitting themselves and complaining and snitching about people to their left that they end up collaborating openly or just fucking everything up until no response to the fash is possible and we all end up getting shot. Every fucking time.
They're so much more gleeful about the thought of enacting violence against other poor and working class people who "went too far" and became "tankies" (in practice just means they posted edgier stuff, the left is politically irrelevant) than capitalists and the state. I find them disgusting.
I almost feel bad for them. They are well meaning but totally divorced from reality and it's not entirely their fault this was done to them and to all of us that live in the imperial core and it takes tremendous humility and effort to break out of.
I just assumed most 196 users are literal children and this is the most important thing in their lives.
It's the only explanation. When the sub decided to go dark so many people were posting that it was incredibly important to them as a community and they couldn't bear to see it go dark indefinitely. I understand that if you're young and queer the world is not friendly to you so you may seek refuge online, but please make sure to touch grass periodically.
Being a useful idiot and being a willing tool of capital result in the same outcome, so you could argue they’re equal crimes.
flash back to the time that r/196 had a struggle session over saying that stalin killing nazis was a bad thing with the excuse "what about the nazi archeologists and nazi school teachers, who enthusiastically supported the nazis for the sake of their career"
I mean, I've had that struggle session because so many of their soldiers were just dumb kids who had no fucking idea what was going on and were caught up in it with no way out, and I always come to the conclusion; Fuck'em. Can't save everyone everytime. You've got to do triage. And Nazis, no matter what their excuse is, are always at the bottom of any triage list.
Stalin didn't kill those kids. The German people killed those kids by letting the Nazis take power in the first place. So we should mourn those kids, and we should correctly blame Nazis for killing them. Not a hard struggle session at all
But then you don't get to be upset with Stalin for fighting a defensive war
I agree, German kids could have resisted, there was the White Rose and shit, and let's not forget the thousands of leftists thrown into the camps. It's not like people didn't know what they were doing was wrong, they just didn't want to take the risk of opposing the regime like the peers did. And to forgive them, punishes those who did resist. That's why Nazi collaborators deserve a swift execution along side the true believers.
If you go reading that site it's important to remember that for every weirdo anarchist that has politics so bad they will only be harmful to the working class there also exists a weirdo Marxist that has politics so bad they will only be harmful to the working class. Don't let the internet color your view of big chunks of the left.
It really does seems to be that pretend anarchism is attractive for liberals. But on the other hand, there's a duality to this in that it's chuds who are likely to be pretend MLs. Basically the type of person who believes all of the CIA atrocity propaganda against the USSR but also thinks "damn that's based!"
I imagine it's because you don't have to do anything. You can just claim you're an "anarchist" because you don't think anyone should tell you what to do, and then instead of organizing and actually working towards anything you can just sit around being a pissant because you're not telling anyone what to do, so you've already achieved the kingdom of heaven, and it's everyone else who is wrong bc they keep telling people to do things like "wipe your ass" and "go to bed" and "stop hoarding property or face the wall your choice".
Some kid was like "Well what do anarchists do about murderers and violent criminals" and I had to explain that being anarchists means you have no hierarchy with no coercive authority, not that you let people do whatever the fuck they want. If someone's hurting people you can do whatever the fuck you want to them as long as the community agrees. Hang em, exile them, make them pay wergeld, shun them, do a restorative justice process, fucking whatever. The important part is that it's a decision made by the whole community according to whatever process the community agreed on rather than someone who is given, but more realistically takes by force, the right to make decisions on behalf of the community. It doesn't mean you can just do whatever you want and everyone has to let you and no one can tell you it's bedtime. I swear that's just American individualist brainworms. People see "No government" or whatever it is they think they see and since they can only conceive of themselves as an atomized singleton with no community role or obligations they assume anarchy means they can do whatever they want and no one will stop them. Like i'm not an anarchist, I'm not up to date on the latest theory, but that's not anarchism, that's being an anti-social American prick who wants to shoot people for crossing their lawn. Kropotkin's whole thing was that cooperation and acting for communal benefit was a strong adaptation that enabled humans to reach our current dominant position and all the "nature red in tooth and claw" social darwinist every man for himself dog eat dog world stuff was deranged bullshit. I don't think most Americans, at least most white americans, can even understand the idea of being part of a community. Like this set of weirdos who claim to be anarchists but seem to think it means they can do whatever they want and don't have to consider how it effects anyone else don't think that anarchy is being part of a community where people are all engaged in cooperation and mutual aid, and they don't think about a community deciding whether someone's behavior is intolerable and taking action to cause that person to stop behaving that way, whether that means shooting them or explaining why they're being a problem and trying to find a way to resolve the issue that meets the needs of all parties. They just think statism is when people tell you you can or can't do something, and anarchism is when you live off grid in a camper with your dog and a thousand guns and shoot anyone who crosses your property. or they just don't think at all, idk. I ran it to a bunch of people online who called themselves anarchists, but got real mad at the idea of forcibly disarming Nazis because they thought it was authoritarian, And that was so perplexing I don't know what to make of it even months later. Because they certainly didn't mean "Taking another party's guns away is tantamount to coercive imprisonment so you gotta either kill them on the spot or leave them alone", which is a position I could understand and accept. They seemed to mean you couldn't do anything or you'd be an authoritarian, and you just had to wait for hte Nazis to come try to kill you and then try to kill them? Or something? It was really weird and incoherent and I'm probalby overthinking it by even crediting them with having a real idea.
I ain't reading all that. I'm happy for u tho. Or sorry that happened.
This is why I switch between calling myself anarchist or communist based on which is going to scare (or annoy when talking to leftists) the other person the most.
Yeah, we can't forget the patsocs were an actual thing that happened. If anything there's more of them with some amount of prominence than there are prominent anticommunist "anarchists", the former has Jackson Hinckle and Haz (I know Haz only exists on the internet but it's scary that a somewhat significant number of people follow his drivel), the latter is basically just Vaush who only exists online.
Patsocs only exist online as well. Like 20 people show up in any meatings or stuff. And in online existance something like Vaush is way more prominent and and of course in real life/acedmic/ political sphere influence an anti-communist anarchist like Chomsky and others to a lesser degree and to a lesser degree have been orders and orders of magnitude more popular and impactfull than any of these people in the convo and even defined the convo and intellectual approach against communist from the left for decades. And still i think irl you would find many more anti-ML people in orgs like the DSA whether they call themselves anarchists/syndicalists/libertarian socialists.
That's pretty true. Caleb Maupin does get the platform of CPUSA and unless I'm mistaken Jackson Hinckle was on Tucker's show at least once. They get some presence in the real world which I've never seen the likes of Vaush get, yet there's also people like Chomsky who have had orders of magnitude more sway than anyone else I listed. I think I may be a little brain poisoned by the internet so I had that blind spot.
The Tucker appearences just seem to me like they were fishing for people to just come and shit on the dems and their "warmongering" from non GoP "perspectives" and since the DSA/Vaushite activists dont even have that stance or would refuse to even go they can only call up niche weirdos like Hinckle or whatever their name is to show smth
Right, but you don't see Vaush showing up to Rachel Maddow's show to rant about tankies. Maybe reactionaries are just quicker to bring alternative people to the table for the veneer of being antiestablishment, while liberals have embraced their hegemonic position so bringing anyone who doesn't fit into the tight window of respectability will never get their 15 minutes?
Also i feel like lib media do some kind of background check and care a bit about optics so if they saw any discourse online thought some articles or posts would have been made of them "inviting an alleged pedophile streamer" . And even "we should invite a poltical twitch streamer named vaush" would feel like embarrassing proposal within mainstream media. Like Dore has a radio show and is a comentator i guess, Mauphin and Hinckie or whatever can be described as political organizers or activists . So its easier to get the ok
Vaush wouldn't serve a useful purpose. The libs don't care about the Tankies that actually exist, they're shadow-boxing with bernie supporters they made up in their minds who ruined Hillary's perfect election and are secretly undermining the holy and glorious purpose of the democratic party that would definitely fix things if they weren't such gosh darn small beans. Having some weird dude who claims to be a socialist rant about tankies that no one who wantches MSNBC had ever heard of :walter-shock: wouldn't contribute to her narrative or her ratings.
Caleb Maupin and Jackson Hinckle are also piss babies, I doubt that's the only reason.
That's definitely part of the reason. Then again, lib media will have people like Xeni Jardin on. They don't mind trainwrecks.
at least one actual american ml party is palling around with maupin and his cult
chuds who are likely to be pretend MLs
That is real but i think the scale is much smaller. I doupt it breaks 4 digits in numbers across the US. Unless you go to some country where nazbol isnt a meme like idk Russia (even there its not much). But it seems like chomskite-vaush adjustent watchers that would say "im a syndicalist/anarchist/libertarian" are way more common at least in the US
you get a lot of shit marxists who think the gays are bourgeois decadence
It's so fucking weird. "Yeah we want to overthrow and replace all aspects of bourgeoisie society, but we're going to keep the aspect where the bourgeoisie violently enforced one paradigm of family and sexuality because that's different from all the other bourgeoisie things which are unjust." Like what the fuck is the point of self crit if people go on believing stupid shit like that?
I'd be shocked if there were a thousand of them in the whole country, and I'd be shocked if anyone but us and some of the left twitterati even know they exist or what they believe in any detail.
Well if the american left at large has failed to take or organized on even the most rudimentary anti-NATO stance then its no wonder RT will have to look for niche weirdos if they want to do an "anti-NATO dissetent activists from within the empire" segment.
There are a lot of social democrats out there still calling themselves Marxists for some reason, and like half of organized MLs are barely held in check by the party
It's hard to keep a party in line when you're probably infiltrated by cops and even if you're not enough Americans have individualist brain worms that enforcing any kind of party discipline is like rolling a boulder made of dipshits up hill eternally.
Americans have individualist brain worms that enforcing any kind of party discipline is like rolling a boulder made of dipshits up hill eternally.
:dont-laugh:
unfortunately, the weirdo marxists don't have internet connections and are all in on bob avakian
It's kind of flattering when they talk about us like we're a secret society pulling all the extremely online strings, I could get used to being spoken of in somber warning tones like this.
How else can you explain people moving left as contradictions heighten and they get exposed to more things than just the osmotic stew of liberal pop-culture propaganda they were raised in? Clearly they were just sleeper agents for an omnipresent and all powerful cabal of bad evil fake leftists all along, no one learns things or changes stances over time!
Especially because, even online, MLs are such a tiny, tiny minority of the western left. For every one tankie, there's probably about 5 online left people like this.
Gotta be very afraid of those left wing trans tankies that are ruining America!
I’m Don Draper in the elevator with that guy, the guy is 196 and I’m saying “I don’t think about you at all”
I literally don’t know what 196 is tbh
As far as I could tell from being linked it a couple times it was basically like liberal cth. Like "yeah we're cool and don't give a fuck and we're scared of communists please save us US government :powercry-2:"
It used to be a chill place that was very much like CTH but less political like Dryad said, but over time it got taken over by Vaushites. It wasn't a liberal sub at first, they just got very averse to communists over time.
As the libs took over, r/MoreTankie196 was created, and then moved to https://lemmygrad.ml/c/moretankie196. Still waiting for moretankiehexbear to get away from all the libs here.
We had moretankiechapo a couple of times but I don't remember much coming of it.
Because left unity and anti-sectarianism is better. Was a weak attempt at an ‘everyone here is a lib but me’ joke. Thank you for the added context, though.
/r/chapotraphouse2 was where the real hotness was :garf-troll:
Yeah respect to moretankie196. Admittedly I ended up not browsing it much because I got the sense that the userbase was just as young as the other sub but much smaller so their culture isn't really for me.
One of this site’s founders and a former admin was a mod on both r/chapotraphouse and r/moretankiechapo.
You’ve all been duped, the authoritarians took control like they always do.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ziq-eradicate-left-unity
Oh no, I’ve been duped into being part of the only community I’ve ever been a part of online that isn’t populated by normie liberal head in the sand pieces of shit, I feel so used
The totalitarian dictator of Raddle has updated the comment to link to a self-written anti-communist manifesto. Raddle is AnCap land, where capitalism and private property are good actually as long as they are unregulated and not 'crony'. Somehow also being anti-democratic and burning ballot boxes is encouraged. So next time your 'authoritarian' union holds a vote, burn the ballot box and go back to the apartment you rent from your local landlord if you want to be a true Raddle 'leftist'.
But hexbears are being duped, btw.
That tracks. Next the commenter will post a link to a self-rant about how the hierarchy is no longer unjust if the child consents.
:libertarian-approaching:
So is tankie a slur or an identity? You sure seem to have trouble making up your minds about that.
Who was historically more friendly to Nazis, soc dems or the big bad "tankies"?
Oh thank God, I was afraid for a second that I hadn't followed r/moretankiechapo.
anyone who starts off a sentence with "sisters and brothers" is 100% about to follow it with some dumbass shit
Except Stalin's first speech about the Great Patriotic War.
If you stand against fascism and stand with equality, peace, and your fellow leftists
We tankies seem to be standing alone here.
So stupid I want to believe it's an op. Real "war is peace" shit.
stand against fascism, but don't actually fight them, because that's authoritarianism or something
Stand bravely and watch the fascists commit fascism! Judge them harshly, history will remember this!
But I swear to fucking God if you punch a Nazi I'll judge you the same and you're NOT going to like it.
Leftism is when I refer to anyone to the left of me as a fascist. And the more people to the left of me I call fascists, the leftismier I am
Or a site used in place of the toy to occupy a baby, which is basically what it is
A site dedicated to the best character from the Nickelodeon show Chowder
It's hard not to grumble because that site was actively unwelcoming to /r/cth refugees, who were predominantly demsuccs, but is apparently fine welcoming vaushites as long as they're explicit anti-communists.
Authoritarianism is a feature of fascism, but it consists of much more than that. I think it's a political error to collapse all ideological opponents into a monolith, and it reduces your ability to see your enemy clearly and fight them effectively.
"Tankies" are not politically relevant. They only feature so heavily in anarchist polemics because they help us tell an easy fable about why the revolution failed. The US empire, however, is very relevant. It is the dominant institution that capitalism operates through. Anarchists can't afford to abandon an effective anticapitalist line of critique just because we can't stop seeing Stalinists lurking in the shadows.
At least liberals a few decades ago had the self awareness to invent words like “totalitarian” to draw false equivalence between socialists and nazis. Now they just go right ahead and call MLs “red fascists” lmao.
Anti-authoritarianism is anti-fascism.
-The SPD, just before doing the thing
Do you have some kind of humiliation fetish or what? I genuinely don't know what exactly you plan on getting out of commenting on this site, especially with your previous comments about you wanting to doxx marxists and report us to whatever the local version of the FBI is.
TIL that fighting fascism is fascist
Are these morons some kind of psyop?
So I take it 196 has split up across various platforms (raddle, lemmy)?
lemmy.blahaj.zone
how fucking DARE they take the name of the blessed shork in vain like THIS?!?! :trans-dagger:
Ikr, nothing more I hate than cis liberals using trans spaces to do crusades against groups that are disproportionately trans
:blahaj: zone does openly federate with lemmygrad and not block them like many anti-communist instances for what that’s worth.
Need to start stocking up on all the finest trans-tankie memes for the eventual opening of the floodgates :meow-knife-trans:
The (now deleted)comment before mine was saying it was a r/196 instance
