Smh my head, dude was my introduction to leftism
the conservatives won the courts already and biden has no climate policy. what apocolypse are we avoiding with Biden? Going down pretending like nothing is happening instead of going down screaming ? This election is the last shot of Melancholia.
Because under Biden people like Biden/Markey can at least attempt to get climate legislation passed. Trump is actively trying to prevent California from setting it's own environmental standards. Recently California banned the sale of ICE cars in 2035, which will have a national impact. That's something I expect a Trump administration to challenge in court.
what's Melancholia
California blaming its lack of progress on Trump is too Pelosi for my liking. You know Newsom loves playing beat em up with the republicans. Those libs don't enjoy actually engaging with the more progressive populace. That makes for nasty wine galas
California libs: Trump has ruined California, I'm moving to Texas.
I don't think that relates to what I was talking about, which was like auto emissions standards. That's not why people move
I'm honestly not tripping about liberal bourgeois Californian's moving to Texas so that they can afford a house. We might get legal weed out of it. Maybe they'll even clean up our beaches.
I almost moved to Texas but I ended up bombing that interview and found something in California
That was a good move. I'd rather be homeless in California than scraping by in Texas.
I'm not referring to a incident where a California politician blamed the Trump administration for anything. But I'm saying that letting California set emissions standards for car will impact cars emissions positvely
Yeah I get that. I'm saying that California can set its own standards for cars whenever it wants. Just like Nancy could introduce good bills instead of dogshit airline bailouts whenever she wants.
It's not Trump that stops California (or Biden for that matter). It's California itself.
Like if Uber doesn't want to get rid of ICE by 2035, then California just...won't.
I’m saying that California can set its own standards for cars whenever it wants.
California has been doing that since the 60s. The 1970 Clear Air Act let's California specifically set it's own emission standards that are stricter than the nations since it was the only state with regulations at the time. 12 other states adopt these regulations, and automakers generally follow them since they don't want to make different models of cars for different states.
https://www.green-technology.org/california-auto-emissions-standards/
It’s not Trump that stops California (or Biden for that matter). It’s California itself.
This is not the case. The Trump administration removed California's ability to to this last year. California was setting standards from 1961-2019
"The Trump Administration is revoking California’s Federal Waiver on emissions in order to produce far less expensive cars for the consumer, while at the same time making the cars substantially SAFER," Trump tweeted Wednesday morning, noting that the move will lead to "older, highly polluting cars" being replaced by "new, extremely environmentally friendly cars."
California is currently pushing for stricter restrictions despite this
"The California Air Resources Board (CARB) and major automakers on Monday confirmed they had finalized binding agreements to cut vehicle emissions in the state, defying the Trump administration’s push for weaker curbs on tailpipe pollution. The agreements with carmakers, including Ford Motor Co, Volkswagen AG VOWG_p.DE, Honda Motor Co and BMW AG, were first announced in July 2019 as voluntary measures, prompting anger from U.S. President Donald Trump. A month later, the Justice Department opened an antitrust probe of the agreements, only to end it without action."
Which is why I'm saying that Biden literally just leaving California alone will have a positive impact on auto emissions.
We don't seem to disagree -- I'm just not sure why you see that as Trump doing anything. You have it right there - CA is doing whatever it wants to do. It's entering into the same contracts it would have had to anyways. Having them labeled as "defiance" versus "blank" seems to be the only meaningful distinction you're raising.
I fail to see any impact on auto emissions comparing Biden against Trump. As I said, the barriers to CA completely adopting green policies is itself (and by extension, capitalism). Biden/Trump doesn't change that imo
Because the Trump administration took away the ability for California to set it's own auto emissions standards in 2019. That certainly is Trump doing something, no? California is currently trying to get companies to voluntarily agree to certain targets, which is less than idea. It does not cover every auto manufacturer
As I said, the barriers to CA completely adopting green policies is itself
Why are you saying this when I'm giving you an example of the federal government limiting what the California state government can do
an example of the federal government limiting what the California state government can do
What can't California do? It's setting its own standards through binding agreements with state auto makers. I'm not seeing what Trump or the feds have limited here.
It’s setting its own standards through binding agreements with state auto makers.
California is trying to persuade companies to enter voluntary agreements. These are not legally binding. These do not include every automaker. Toyota and GM did not enter this agreement for example. It's not the same as having actual rules.
What can’t California do?
Set auto emissions standards! It's not a power California has anymore, the federal government took it away. Voluntary agreements is absolutely not a substitute.
These are not legally binding
It literally says "binding agreements" right there in the quote you posted. That's part of what I'm trying to say. California can do whatever it wants with respect to what happens in the state. If they want stricter emissions standards they can just demand them, and they are. Trump is huffing and puffing, sure. But practically I'm not seeing any consequence or fallout. I'm not seeing any practical impediment - just political posturing.
I still don't quite understand what it is the federal government "took away." Or what you mean by a substitute - they are getting results. I understand your general point that there might be more work to do under Trump than under Biden. I'm just not seeing it in this instance.
If they want stricter emissions standards they can just demand them, and they are.
Toyota and GM and not part of the agreement, California can't do anything about it. It's binding to the companies that agreed to be bound by it, which I don't think is as effective.
I still don’t quite understand what it is the federal government “took away.”
The ability to do anything about it. The Clean Air Air 1970 specifically let the state of California make rules stricter then the federal government. This part was taken away.
In 2018 California could stop Toyota from selling cars in the state if they didn't follow the emissions regulations, today Toyota has to voluntarily agree to be bound by them. They have decided not to, this is a difference.
I had crippling treatment resistant depression my whole life, now I feel well-adjusted for the first time. Who wants to sit under this stick teepee with me
Is that like the thing where Brace Beldon and Tom Sexton said they felt great during quarantine when everyone else was losing their shit?
I constructed a life with my SO that sort of only works when I'm working 60-80 hours a week and often out of town. It doesn't go to well when I'm at home just chilling.
It’s easier to imagine the end of the world than to imagine the end of capitalism.
I read "Understanding Power" when I was 15. I will always have a soft spot for Noam considering how he persisted during the Left's darkest period and how nice he is to strangers. But as Leftists we can't hold onto idols or "great men." The ideas and struggles are unimaginably bigger than any one of us.
Noam is and always will be a great leftist. But he's not always right. Neither was Lenin or Bookchin or Mao.
If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.
An important distinction I didn't fully appreciate until recently. I heard Parenti from those Choking Victim samples, but I read Chomsky. It took until I also read Parenti to really appreciate the difference and understand that they're not both cut out of media for being too dangerous, Chomsky has just ben boring for three decades.
Brie: "okay so for a lot of people it can take like actual hours of their time of standing in the cold, during covid, with it requiring them to take time off work." Noam: It takes 10 minutes.
It was worse, he said only 5 minutes after Brie said that. He had been harping on the 10 min thing but after "hearing" Brie's very reasonable argument that not everyone lives in a safe Cambridge, Mass Dem seat that it may take longer and also it takes people who depend on their day to day work time off that won't be paid - after that he said "Well are you gonna take 5 minutes, then, to vote?"
Miss me with that lib shit.
If I'm being very charitable, wasn't Chomsky basically just calling Brie and Virgil libs for thinking an electoralist strategy like protest voting is a good idea?
yeah almost could swing that but there was the part where he specifically said it takes 10 minutes -.-
What if it turns out he thought that because he's never actually voted.
That sucked so much. They even kind of just accepted his premise after a while and starting asking about how we avoid this in the future, what we do to get people to the polls who don't see things in that manner, etc., and that's literally all he had to say for the entire hour. Awful. The only good part was Brie going off after the interview.
Where the fuck does Chomsky live where voting take 10 minutes?
The 45 states and DC that allow mail in voting. It literally took me 8 minutes from pulling the letter out of the mailbox to putting the completed return letter back in.
Cool, some people have to wait 6 hours to vote even in this election
I've heard multiple 9 and 12 hours stories in GA. The 9s were personal so I can imagine it's even worse other places.
It's different in each state. I got mine in the mail automatically
The only main issues where Biden represents a clear advantage over Trump are on COVID-19, the Supreme Court social liberties (LGBT rights, Abortion rights, etc), and white supremacy IMHO. After all, one candidate is firmly against chauvinist militias while the other tells them to "Stand back and Stand by". For that alone I would vote for Biden if I was in a swing state because with Biden saying Antifa is an idea, not a group, it shows that under him we at least won't have random leftists being locked up on the arbitrary charges. But on the issue of "working class struggles" we really shouldn't be fooled into thinking there is a significant difference. Really I want to see these progressive pundits and politicians start talking about all the different legal and civil disobedience tactics they are going to start enacting right now to prevent Trump from doing a fucking coup, vote shaming people when Biden is in all likelihood already on track to win the popular vote by like 9 points misses the mark of where our energy should be on this issue.
Both Noam and Brie are wrong IMHO for assuming the vote this November is going to be even at typical American levels of democratic, let alone anything resembling a true democracy. Why is the discussion of whether or not we should vote for Biden important if Trump is already planning to invalidate all Democratic votes anyway? That issue is what our (ideally limited) discussions of electoralism should be about.
THAT'S NOT THE QUESTION THAT ARISES ON NOVEMBER 3RD
My man was rebooting like a computer during that whole debate.
my vote doesnt matter -> voting is the way to change -> voting doesnt matter in a state where the bourgeois control all -> only way for change is through armed revolution -> my vote doesnt matter
He can rest himself. He has agency. He can refuse to get wheeled out every 4 years to shill for the democrats. Fuck him
He’s just scared because he’s too old to fight off the proud boys when they come to kill him.
