On one hand chapos are very horny on main and very sex positive despite not having it, but on the other hand the volcel police send horny chapos off to horny jail and porn is exploitive.
Hentai is just male artists appropriateing womens bodies for profit.
The only ethical porn is scrolling through fetlife profiles and leaving cryptic comments like "good vibes" on homespun clown bdsm scenes.
male artists appropriateing womens bodies for profit
The only ethical form of pornography is cranking it to pictures of yourself
Personally I'd rather just join a monastery or something at that point
Porn industry bad and exploitative, but porn as a medium isn't inherently bad
This is the case with virtually all industries, but most industries aren't rife with sexual violence.
as rife with sexual violence. I struggle to think of a performing art that's not still grounded on the Casting Couch.
Well yeah, I said most lol. I mean sexual violence and coercion exists in all industries, especially the latter. One of the most common things for retail managers to get fired for is "fraternizing" with those below them, probably number 2 after stealing.
As an artist that makes porn part time with 4 years of experience: Working conditions can be shit especially at first; but living in a third world country ALL WORKING CONDITIONS FOR ARTISTS ARE A LOT SHITTIER HERE. There is a lot of talk about parasocial abuse against artists that make porn, but i've never been on the receiving end of that; just a couple of mildly creepy people. I think the worst part is the lack of benefits. But again, that's most artists not working fulltime for bigshot studios.
mr mod, what is your comment on hentai often bordering pedophilia?
should just turned 18 porn be legal, should someone that's done porn be allowed to recall it?
i dont know i dont actually watch porn i just wanna ironically hornypost and then go on grindr and instantly fuck some guy wno works from home because i am normal and have sex instead of subsuming my desires unto the deep neurosis of internet perversion
anyways gonna go take a dick up the ass from a puerto rican bye
remember to wear a mask while giving head to avoid catching corona.
"despite not having it"
I'm in this picture and I don't like it
I'm pro- porn as a concept, anti-porn under capitalism
I think this is like hating monsanto vs hating GMOs. I hate the companies that produce it and exploit workers not to mention what gets produced is decided by a handful of perverts with a monopoly over what direction the industry goes.
Maybe something like the failures of prohibition need to be looked at when deciding what to do with porn. The demand will always be there so it's up to peeps on the left to maybe offer an alternative.
As much as the volcel police is a bit it might do better to solve porn addiction kind of like how the soviet union tackled alcohol addiction. By changing the culture as opposed to legislating it idk.
I wanna recommend somethings if y'all don't mind. First is three episodes of lumpen radio, the first is an interview with a sex worker https://lumpen.libsyn.com/sex-work-marxism-i-ft-juniper The second on sex work and disability https://lumpen.libsyn.com/sex-work-marxism-2-disability-self-determination-ft-maranda The last on on curing crime under capitalism https://lumpen.libsyn.com/curing-crime-criminals-william-z-foster-toward-soviet-america-theorythursday
The last one just got me thinking about what do.
I also been listening to peepshow podcast https://peepshowpodcast.com/ This was recommended during the second interview by maranda and I've heard the first episode and thought it was interesting.
Also think maybe it would be beneficial for leftists to make their own porn so pick up your pencils and get to it. If you can't draw then write something.
I really feel like sexual mutual aid was a good take and everyone mad about it was projecting.
it is if I am bored and have nothing better to do so I am just doing it to make my homie feel loved and appreciated.
Just kiss his ass, vigorously, and with tongue and now we're back at mutual aid.
As an enlightened centrist, I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Getting laid is at the top of Maslow's hierarchy, not the bottom. Mutual aid usually prioritizes the needs at the bottom of Maslow's hierarchy.
Pro people sharing their lewds on their own terms, or as much as they have control over it as far as payment is concerned. But like everything else under capitalism the industry will inevitably lead to people being traumatized and exploited.
But yes I have watched and busted to plenty of fucked up scenes so what do I know.
I'm generally pro-porn personally, but this place has a loud unironic anti-porn minority unfortunately.
some are also asexual, but I doubt they're the ones being weird about it
I don't know why it's surprising that anti-porn is an unironic position given that the porn industry is particular heinous with its labor abuses. That said, porn ain't the problem so much as porn under capitalism is.
Alot of the people I'm referencing aren't that nuanced unfortunately.
Yeah there's definitely some "sex work is worse than normal work" brainworms around the left, and it sucks big time. Misogyny is a many headed hydra, and we must always be striving to slay it.
When sex work is often criminalized, under-the-table, or highly hazardous work with few if any safety regulations, it's not that much of a stretch to consider it worse than normal work, in the same way that working in a mine and risking injury/black lung is worse than other forms of work. To be clear I'm not talking about camgirl type work or doing patreon-funded erotic artisanal work here, but performing borderline-athletic feats to film pornos and dealing with constant abuse on the job, or risking life/limb to do emotional labor for johns. When people talk about sex work as "worse than normal work", this is what they're talking about. Selling nudes and dirty illustrations from the comfort of your own home, not so much.
I mean I agree with this take except for the end. There is definitely a part of the Left that views any sex work as "lesser" because it's "selling your body." Does this display a fundamental misunderstanding of how labour exploitation works? I think both you and I would argue it does, and we should both be on the lookout for it.
Yeah but it comes off as some second wave bullshit. The labor exploitation is pretty clear, but there seems to be a genuine undercurrent of second wave bs in a lot of people's critiques.
Porn brings with it a lot of horrible shit, human trafficking etc, but that stuff has to be seen as a result of porn's existence under capitalism - there's nothing inherently morally wrong with people fucking and filming it and sharing it around.
At least for now, the most moral forms of porn are onlyfans and hentai artist patreons.
I don't know if it's really pro or anti but I feel like the left doesn't actually make any serious attempts to fix any of the issues with the porn industry and pro sex work positions usually exist more as marketing than any kind of labor movement. Like I don't really know how to square it when people go from ranting about the gig economy or amazon to singing the praises of onlyfans.
It always bothered me how when podcast would get on the topic how you'd basically end up with something like the pitches military recruiters use. You have the industry faces whose job it is to keep the flow of naive 18 years olds coming doing these interviews and it never gets called out.
That said maybe there is a way to fix this and build something healthy, but I don't think that's what's happening. The dudes working now who raped and abused people aren't really feeling any heat from the left. They basically have to self destruct like Ron Jeremy for anything to happen to them.
Yeah only sex workers really give a shit.
Leftists need to be better about reaching out to disadvantaged groups and seeking their input and helping however we can.
The reality of porn is that wherever the is a porn industry, or sex industry in general, there will be an increase in rape, human trafficking and other forms of sexual exploitation. That's just how it works. Obviously these things will still exist in societies that ban production of pornography, but there is less of a commercialized incentive. The sex industry commodifies people's bodies, especially women's bodies, and when anything is commodified it will be fetishized in an unhealthy and damaging manner. Just look at that other thread and how many coomers were livid that they lost their porn videos. They are not videos of people having sexual encounters, they are commodities to be consumed and they were taken from them.
The concept of consent is also degraded. In any job, you technically consent to carry out your duties, but there is always the looming threat of loss of livelihood if you refuse to do so. Have you ever seen a porn video where one party kinda looked like they were miserable and just wanted it to be over? Well, they consented right, even if they were only doing it to pay their rent or medical bills or whatever else. The concept of consent cannot stay in tact in a Capitalist system where their bodies are commodities to be consumed. There is always a coercive aspect.
I think people on the left have a reaction to puritanical anti-sex values that come from living in christian-dominated societies that blinds them to the exploitive nature of stuff like porn and prostitution. The label SWERF is often dished out to people who bring these issues up, as if attacking an industry is attacking the workers in it. There is a difference to saying that the sex industry is bad and saying sex workers are bad people that should be criminalized for the exploitation they endure. I've never really seen people on the left attack sex workers themselves, though I know it was an issue in the old Marxist left like 100 years ago (Kollontai arguing that sex workers degrade solidarity etc). It wouldn't surprise me if some of the TERFy radfems did do this though.
Is criminalizing it going to reducing trafficking? Doesn't criminalizing make conditions worse?
Why not advocate unionizing/some other form of building worker control?
Do you trust a capitalist government to handle criminalizing sex work in a positive way?
Criminalizing the drug trade made people not get harmed by the drug trade I don’t know if you knew that.
No I am very serious please see my medium page where my 8,000 word treatise on this is hosted
The short answer is you basically cannot completely eliminate the sex industry under capitalism.
Efforts for unionization won't eliminate sexual violence, especially considering many male sex workers are perpetrators of violence themselves and there is a financial incentive to overlook these things.
I think there is a contradiction where criminalizing sex work (even if it's just criminalizing the customer) does lead to overall worse conditions, but legalizing leads to more exploitation and violence. Kind of a catch 22.
Why would legalizing make the problem worse? The more above ground something is, the harder it is to use the law as leverage against workers
If I could but in the solution offered in the podcasts I listed wasn't to legalize but to decriminalize. Legalize would mean that only a few people could afford the permits necessary and sex workers usually don't have that kind of money. I don't know if they heading down this route.
You're right, decriminalization is a better option. My language was inaccurate.
I was reading David Graebers Debt and had a thought: Sex work is inherently involuntary. Most prostitution as in selling your body for money or survival appeared together with the poor and rich divide and with people getting into debt and being forced into the profession. Prostitution was not a voluntary profession even in ancient Babylonian times. Babylonia actually had prostitutes next to sex positive temple workers that did it because sex for pleasure is divine, and not for the money (although the line between them blurred with time).
The various exhibitionist sites are the most ethical way to get porn imho. Getting off to people who are posting purely because they like the thought of people getting off to them is about as ethical as it gets. And yeah some of those sites have problems too but I think they're still probably the best choice.
