this is grossly misrepresenting
yall posting on a redditor website
the “left” in the United States completely failed to leverage this and only capitulated to the establishment on this front only signifies how weak and useless left-wing movements are in this country.
Actually its revolutionary to support our brave PMC allies who heroically work to deny healthcare to disabled people
If you're looking for social democracy, the only thing that woul get us there is if China started exporting revolution and american students started getting excited about the south korean socialist republic or whatever.
if China started exporting revolution and american students started getting excited about the south korean socialist republic or whatever
:sicko-charging:
I think this is the actual reason the right opposes the vaccine. Because they know if this was free, why not everything?
Well, they absorb media from the thought leaders who are really masters of spin and dishonesty.
Labor unions generally oppose vaccine mandates because their job is to stand up for all workers - even anti-vax workers - regardless of whether it's right or wrong.
That being said, vaccine mandates are not the reason why there is a strike wave right now. To suggest that these workers are striking against vaccines is a right-wing, pro-capitalist talking point.
Vaccine mandates are good and there is absolutely no intelligent left-wing case against them.
Richard Wolff needs to get vaccinated against :brainworms:
By this anti-mandate logic the union endangers 99% of their membership at work so their 1% chud members can “freely” spew COVID out of their commemorative maga kazoos during lunch hour.
Letting the soft handed professional class run central offices was a mistake.
Isn’t this like defending workers who don’t want to follow OSHA regulations or something?
They are just making the work environment more dangerous for everyone else.The carpenter's union is taking away my freedom by requiring steel toes!!! :powercry-2:
OSHA are regulations the company has to follow for the most part, worker training is part of that, but the standards of safety are being put on the workplace not individual workers.
Vaccine requirements are the same as requiring things such as PPE for workers.
Probably, but obviously people aren't taking it that way. I'm not saying there shouldn't be vaccine requirements, it's just having it at the company level instead of state is always going to get union push back just because that's like their whole job.
I don't think it's because of mandates. It's a tight labor market and quits and strikes are more likely to happen when labor is hard to come by. Have any of the John Deere union leaders cited vaccines? Kellogg's? No, they cite poor working conditions and low wages at a time of record profits.
https://mattbruenig.com/2021/10/31/is-the-strike-and-quit-wave-due-to-vaccine-mandates/
Got a question for ya since you seem against mandates. If I had ebola would you want me to be quarantined even if I opposed it?
Right I'm trying to get at the underlying principle here. On the one hand you got an obligation to uphold a person's right to autonomy; otoh you've got an obligation to the people that would die.
yes, the people who are at most risk of dying are the ones who choose not to get the vaccine, right? so it's about consent still at that point
@volkvulture - This site and its community is firmly against antivax disinformation. This is a final warning to drop the topic.
Extending this as a courtesy since you’ve been on the site for a while and others mentioned you were also on the sub. Any other account would have been banned already.
I’m still working through reported comments, this may shift to a full ban.
Everyone should get vaccinated. End of sentence. Arguing against vaccination is advocating for the systemic deaths of the working class and other marginalized people.
It’s okay for the government to arrest me if I refuse to wear a seatbelt while driving, but it’s bad if I lose my job because I refuse to get vaccinated during a pandemic.
I like Wolff but have been pretty suspicious of his idea that worker co-ops can peacefully revolutionize the world. Sounds like lib mischief to me!
This is like Hanlon's razor but wrong.
Always assume people are a Fed rather than them being wrong/problematic
Hasn’t Wolff said before they were more famous the reason you organize unions and co-ops to provide breathing room for workers while letting them figure out themselves the system is impossible to change
Dunno if he said it, but it makes sense, not only from a strategic perspective, but also from a "let's reduce human suffering" perspective.
If Unions and co-ops when done right can improve material conditions of particularly vulnerable working class individuals, provide opportunities for horizontal/democratic management structures to be created and mature, and undermine neoliberal ideology :zizek: it makes sense they should be institutions we as leftists should push forward.
Socialism is when you, worker-shareholder, undermine your neighbor who happens to be a worker-shareholder competitor. In the name of economic freedom.
Really wish this site had collapsible threads, stop arguing with trolls dorks, I'm trying to goof on radlib Wolff :angry-hex:
But I want the thread automatically collapsed for everyone, so they can see my neat takes
Cursed, but I still wonder how many chuds did actually quit their jobs because of vaccine mandates.
Never underestimate :amerikkka::brainworms:
34 NYPD out of ~35K.
This is basically a migrant caravan fear story.
My mom works for a company that has thousands of employees, tons of chuds. They had to implement a vax mandate for everyone.
Of the thousands a couple hundred complained when it was instituted and threatened to quit.
Of those couple hundred ~100 tried to get a religious exemption (none did).
Of those ~100, none quit.
All anecdotal of course but very few people seemed to have actually quit, which tracks with precious vaccine mandate research showing that it works across the board.
wolff no what r u doing
still willing to give "Big" Dick Wolff the benefit of the doubt, since this is literally the first bad take I see coming from him, and I think he's an incredible educator who has actually had an impact on my way of seeing the world... but damn dude
you're right, that would've been the right call, didn't think of it. for shame
Old white dude in the imperial core has terrible opinion, more at 11.
In before someone says something about how "X was the reason I was radicalized so he's not bad and I will let it slide"
UAW was also protesting on behalf of its grad and healthcare workers against the mandates. Their job is to advocate for employee rights and reject employer overreach but this was blindly stupid and from talking to folks it turned off a lot their membership.
It's a wedge issue and its working marvelously.
Bottom line, if you're in a Union under contract and your boss tries to fire you for <insert reason here> your Union should be defending you. Period. That's what the damned thing is there for.
It isn't the job of the Union to set health care policy. It's their job to back their members from arbitrary management decisions.
If management wants the workforces vaccinated, they can bargain for that in the next contract. I guarantee you'll get more people lining up for the jab if it means better salary and stronger pensions.
Ok but A. The contract is not up right now (lmao if you think UAW would try to bring it to the table early over literally anything) and B. it’s cannon fodder for the “COVID heroes” (hospital and univ admins) to point to the lunacy of labor. A major part of labor action is winning community support for the workers (see CWA strike in Buffalo or Deere strike in Iowa), which you won’t get when most people including workers support enforcing vaccines, especially in NYC where UAW was doing this and where the pandemic was most deadly.
And this mandate isn’t out of the ordinary - schools and many workplaces require FDA-approved vaccine (e.g. MMR) records for their students and employees. Why are unions only complaining about this now? It’s a blanket worker rights policy misdirected into supporting anti-vaccine fearmongering. Take it further to show like less than 1% followed through with taking leave over vaccination and this is such a niche and secondary issue for unions to be wasting oxygen on right now.
And to the point of the whole post, Wolff demonstrated poor judgment here by defending a company talking point that the strikes are about vacation mandates and not poor salary/benefits and conditions during the pandemic. I see this misinformation all over Twitter (someone said the taxi debt hunger strike was about anti-vaccine???) and elsewhere because people blindly listen to the corporate labor reporters acting as stenographers for the executives. At best he’s not paying attention to what the workers are saying on the picket line and it’s disappointing.
I see what you’re saying but I ultimately disagree with the strategy. Blind goals like this demonstrate the shortcomings of trade unions not favoring workers as a whole just their own - this is about safety and the government making businesses mandate what they should have done themselves. But this is the world we live in we’re not getting communism next week.
And you are correct that the unions are strongly encouraging people to be vaccinated regardless, just fighting this weird battle on vaccines instead of say focusing on their the rhetoric on being pro-workplace safety and having the employer paying hazard pay if you have to come in. Otherwise most companies are not firing workers but putting them on leave, but that’s splitting hairs.
And love him but I would not give that much credit to Wolff. Go to your nearest picket line and they’ll tell you what their strike is about.
Go to your nearest picket line and they’ll tell you what their strike is about.
The closest I am to a strike is the SW Airline Go Brandon guy participating in a sick-in to shut down Southwest for a week.
So I'll openly admit, my perception may be skewed. But all the Chuds in my office and my neighborhood and doing the Uncle Dance on my Facebook feed are bitching about vaccinations. The people I see seriously upset about wages and working conditions aren't striking. They are jumping shit from my current employer and finding work elsewhere.
there's some principled advocacy
but that doesn't cover municipal & state mandates... which is its own beast for sure
the pandemic worsened existing conditions & has been a corporate policy nightmare for the service sector especially
workers are on edge over the entire situation... "working conditions" is just a polite way to say that improperly & unevenly applied corporate policies have pitted workers against customers, with owners & managers ever coming out on top
Working conditions includes workers striking over lack of covid protection measures.
Honestly really disappointed in Wolff for this.
yes, which falls mainly on owners & employers and not average mischaracterized Americans
Wolff is right here
We wouldn't if the US wasn't full of anti-vaxx brainworms.
Don't tell me about what is or isn't about science while doing some underhanded anti-vaxx apologia.
You're just distracting from the original point. People aren't striking because mandates. You're undermining the labor movement and deflecting from the real cause that is workplace safety and wages.
70% is only valid as a herd immunity target for diseases that do not reinfect and do not demonstrate an evolutionary rate capable of vaccine escape.
I appreciate the nuance Wolff thinks he’s applying but it’s neither the time nor place.
Edited as my 70% was vague.
Many people are protesting & striking & resigning against mandates
Better covid protections & higher wages are part and parcel to the larger struggle against being pitted against customers by owners/managers
Many people are protesting & striking & resigning against mandates
There have been dozens of stories about this and they’ve all been debunked as right-wing grift. There’s a lot of money in this narrative right now and you’re literally parroting what amounts to science denial propaganda
yes, which falls mainly on owners & employers and not average mischaracterized Americans
yes
Wolff is right here
no
Everyone knows that the proper way to organize is to focus entirely on divisive wedge issues and burn bridges with anyone who disagrees. Who can forget Marx's famous words - "Workers of the world, divide!"
