literally stone age hunter-gatherer societies took care of disabled, wounded, and sick members. we have evidence of successful brain surgeries (no, drilling holes in the skull was not just 'stupid caveman shit', it is a treatment for brain pressure/swelling), whose patients survived several decades, we have bodies missing limbs from early childhood surviving into elderly years, and basically anyone that ever got eaten by a tiger ends up buried with a tiger skull (because the group they belonged to hunted it down after it became a known threat).
like there's some valid worry over drug-resistant bacteria and viruses, but i'd rather maybe live to 90 with drug resistant threats to deal with than live to 30 knowing that the bacteria that killed me could have been easily treated lmfao.
yeah but have you consindered I have stopped reading at hunter-gatherer society and filled the rest in with my preconcieved notions about humanity
basically anyone that ever got eaten by a tiger ends up buried with a tiger skull (because the group they belonged to hunted it down after it became a known threat).
That's metal as fuck, do you know where I can read more about this?
i can't find where i first read it, but i think i'm confusing this with Dinofelis, which as far as i can tell probably went exinct due to climate change, but theres a bunch of claims i can't find sources for saying they were hunted by humans.
No worries, I'm sure it happened. It's very human. I just love reading about weird burial sites.
If a fellow hexbear is ever eaten by a tiger, I expect all of us to pick up stone axes and hunt it down
One of my favorite videos goes over a few specific cases of disability in prehistory by Trey the Explainer. Personally love the family that seemingly took too good care of their daughter and fed her too many sweets.
we have evidence of successful brain surgeries (no, drilling holes in the skull was not just 'stupid caveman shit', it is a treatment for brain pressure/swelling), whose patients survived several decades, we have bodies missing limbs from early childhood surviving into elderly years,
These are injuries and are generally not inherited by future offspring. A weakened immune system due to genetic factors offset by modern medicine will be.
This is a problem but not in the way eugenicists think it is. If there is no evolutionary pressure for something, it will inevitably be lost and become vestigial. The response to this is gene therapy which will hopefully be available before this becomes a major problem. There's no reason to let random people die since we'll be able to fix the negative effects before it becomes a problem.
i'd rather maybe live to 90 with drug resistant threats to deal with than live to 30 knowing that the bacteria that killed me could have been easily treated lmfao
Let's imagine the same scenario, you live to 90 but for every person treated today, 2 people die due to drug resistant bacteria in 40 years. Your scenario only works if drug resistant bacteria won't kill more people in the future than we could save today. The hopeful solution is that medical science will catch up and be able to deal with resistance. There's no reason to let people die today for a theoretical, but let's not stick our heads in the sand.
let's not stick our heads in the sand
But you've just made up a very speculative hypothetical that seems quite doubtful?
If antibiotic resistance will arise so quickly that it's necessary to withdraw likely life-saving antibiotics from OP, then you run into the same problem in the third generation (except the two lives saved would result in four deaths)
We know incredibly (and concerningly) little about appropriate antibiotic practice and how resistance arises (e.g. advice to take the antibiotics for a week because that "seems about right"), let alone any actual development of phage therapy outside of Cuba
But you've just made up a very speculative hypothetical
It's a good thing I mentioned in my original comment "But that's no reason to let people die because of speculation." The point is that the logic was inconsistent, not that their position is wrong.
You agree with me, you just haven't read my comment.
I'm not suggesting that you were proposing that antibiotics actually be withdrawn. I did read your comment but I disagree about the speculative example.
I've contributed to this becoming increasingly like a reddit debate about a hypothetical example that it seems we all agree wouldn't be used to inform anything - my bad.
I take your point on the logic too
Let's imagine the same scenario, you live to 90 but for every person treated today, 2 people die due to drug resistant bacteria in 40 years. Your scenario only works if drug resistant bacteria won't kill more people in the future than we could save today. The hopeful solution is that medical science will catch up and be able to deal with resistance. There's no reason to let people die today for a theoretical, but let's not stick our heads in the sand.
Longtermist spotted, deploy the pig feces
If we don't fix this problem, millions could die from anti-biotic resistant bacteria within our livetimes.
Lol longtermist
Is climate activism also longtermist by your metrics? We're not talking about the sun exploding, we're talking about stuff you and I will live to see.
maybe, but it's good longtermism and not insane eugenics longtermism
well it's a good thing we let covid rip then, eh? keep those immune muscles well trained!
"We shouldn't do this thing but it could be a problem in the future if we don't make progress"
"I bet you want us to do that thing huh?"
I'm literally on your side, I just acknowledge that there is a problem over a long term.
Your scenario only works if drug resistant bacteria won't kill more people in the future than we could save today. The hopeful solution is that medical science will catch up and be able to deal with resistance. There's no reason to let people die today for a theoretical, but let's not stick our heads in the sand.
Anti-biotic resistance is from people pumping massive amounts of drugs into animals for food in factory farms, not people being saved from dying from a small infection and "stopping natural selection." It will probably become a huge issue. Fortunately, since drug companies have stopped researching anti-biotics for lack of profit incentive, if we achieve socialism we should be able to solve it.
If there is no evolutionary pressure for something, it will inevitably be lost and become vestigial.
I'm not sure about that. Mutation is a random process, and natural selection is pretty random as well. I don't think there's anything inevitable about evolution, and the circumstances that determine if a trait is negative or favorable (for rapid procreation) are constantly changing.
I'm not sure about that. Mutation is a random process,
The problem is entropy. You keep modifying parts of a machine and eventually it'll break. It is infinitely harder to keeps things working based on random changes than for it to break. It's like picking a random car part from a store and shoving it in your car regardless of make or model. The chance that it won't work is the majority. Unless something is necessary for an organisms survival, it is at risk of breaking. After that, the chance it will be fixed by another mutation is nil.
and natural selection is pretty random as well.
No it is not. It's imperfect but if natural selection was random then evolution would be a farce.
These are injuries and are generally not inherited by future offspring
i never implied otherwise. my point was that humans (and many other animals, like chimpanzees and beavers and dogs and ants) modify their environment to survive, which '''circumvents evolutionary presures''' according to vulgar eugenicists, and keep 'useless' disabled people alive and in their communities, all of which is contrary to 'eugenics' (the injured guy was '''clearly''' genetically inferior, a '''superior''' specimen would simply have avoided injury)
I love how natural selection has become personified by redditbros & co. as some man behind the curtain literally selecting things that are Universally Good™. Surely it couldn't be just the effect of random mutations on an organism's fitness in a particular environment or range of environments
Picturing Steve Buscemi's character in Spy Kids 2 punching the wall when he learns about penicillin
Shoutouts to the educators trying to instill into people that 'natural selection' doesn't magically turn animals into some mythical super strong super smart optimized ubermensch creatures after being cooked in the oven long enough, it just optimizes for animals who are able to successfully propagate enough to replace the dead.
'Natural selection' could 'optimize' towards hominids that almost universally die of health complications around 25 as long as they are better at surviving to maturity and cumming in each other and popping out a bunch of babies to continue the cycle.
If the eugenicist model was correct, we would be overrun by super-intelligent and super-strong baby turtles within days, since only like 1 in 10.000 survive to adulthood.
Perhaps the turtles are hiding their power and biding their time. Those shells could be hiding Hamas bases with WMD by now for all we know
If the eugenicist model was correct then we would all become crabs as it is clearly the most efficient form
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinisation
who were those two fascist breeding losers that were profiled in the atlantic or whatever last year? they were trying to breed superchildren but at risk of being ableist, neither of them would survive in the wild. they seemed pretty good at capitalism and spreadsheets but were really just complete treat babies.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/life/pronatalists-save-mankind-by-having-babies-silicon-valley/
Telegraph did an interview of these two absolute gigaweirdoes from Philly who are representative of the "pronatalist" wing of Effective Altruism/Capital-R Rationalism.
I've taken bio classes before, and my professor literally insisted that I NEVER assign human values to nature. Eugenics is assigning a human value to nature and therefore I have a logical reason to oppose eugenics.
Sleeping in caves is the enemy of natural selection. It lets people with too little body hair survive the cold.In long-long-long terms it will screw people over when the next big ice-age comes.
I think at this point the average redditor is an LLM shilling for the IOF and any number of corporations, so yeah
I saw a comment earlier today that just said "The product is actually very interesting" like that's a thing that humans say
I saw a comment earlier today that just said "The product is actually very interesting" like that's a thing that humans say
a few weeks ago there was a tweet going around from a person who got called out for using AI generated email responses, except they did not use any AI, they were just autistic... I wonder how many people who have naturally flat voices/expressions or who learned how to communicate by copying others are going to be unintentionally hurt by people trying to detect AI. sucks for everyone from every angle.
Not even communists are immune to ableism caused by preconceptions of what counts as robotic and what doesn't
the fact that people who have lived life being seen as a robot are just going to get experience that phenomena to a greater extent with AI shit becoming ubiquitous
"The product is actually very interesting" like that's a thing that humans say
neoliberal subjects are not human
He's a redditor, so you just know he's a 6'3" ubermensch with bulging forearms, perfect vision, an IQ of 125, and no carpal tunnel pain from typing on a keyboard all day.
modern weapons reduce the need for evolution into 6'3" uberchadmenshspielenwutzstaffen
we must disarm all of our militaries and return to natural selection by brute hand to hand combat like they do on the Himalayan border
nah, modern weapons just select for the evolutionarily superior Twink archetype (speed, dexterity, smaller target harder to hit, fits easily in vehicles, requires less food, body is thin enough that when it is shot the bullet more likely passes through without fragmenting or expanding)
Great news! By rejecting modern medicine, you can choose to experience natural selection on your own!
I always find that a lot of these CHUDs who preach "law of the jungle" almost never go move to the jungle.
They can do that, but they would likely be surprised to find that for the majority of human history, people made room for so-called "undesirables" and only when we started having such grand hierarchies, that there was ever such a push to optimize our genetics like we're fucking cattle. They think that they'll wake up in Brave New World as an Alpha ready to spend eternity partying it up as a reward for being better, but most likely they will make great gammas and do menial work since they have shown a predisposition to blind loyalty to the ruling class, alongside taking great pride in being little more than cattle.
Our desire to save everyone
From the country that posts "You're about to find out why we can't afford healthcare" before launching a billion-dollar salvo of over-priced, clumsily engineered rocket bombs.
letting natural selection run its course
Like, how does this dipshit think natural selection works? Do you just run the algorithm for an extra 10,000 years and get Human-Plus?
You illiterate nob. Natural selection doesn't just stop happening because of modern medicine. Your brain consumes enormous amounts of caloric intact precisely because its vastly more efficient to learn to wash your hands than to hope your hundredth-generational offspring evolves fingers that leak antiseptic.
The point of modern medicine is to capitalize on that capacity for investigative reasoning. Not to simply lay down and submit to our birthed state like a bunch of instinct-driven bacteria.
Left: Our next generation will be nurtured to achieve their full potential and flourishing
Right: The weak will be purged from our next generation so that only the strong will live in glory
But its not like "Left" and "Right" are genetic cohorts anyway. Human brains are plastic and ideology is learned not instinctual.
What's more, if there's one thing that neoliberalism has cultivated in the modern Westroid, its a strong disdain for fucking. So the real threat to our future is not whether we are right or left, but whether we are ace or horny.
it's hard to believe, but mainstream movies used to have actual sex scenes
They still need cumming, they just want to minimize how much fucking is involved.
i'm sure the OP in screenshot would be the first to volunteer to die if they contracted an illness that could be treated with modern medicine. surely their argument isn't just an excuse to remove their particular brand of "undesirables"
Main character syndrome. "I, the protagonist of reality, could never get a terrible illness"
I sent my son out into the wild with a shield and spear at age 6, modern medicine is making men weak.
Smh he'll never learn how to roll dodge with that shield, this is why there's a crisis of masculinity
REAL MEN learn to CARRY HEAVY OBJECTS and FAT ROLL to AVOID ENEMY ATTACKS
My son failed to beat Iudex Gundyr and is now dead because he didn't use his estus flask in time. This is the 8th time this has happened to me. Natural selection is taking a while to kick in but soon enough, my sons will be parrying Pontiff Sulvayhn with the best of them. Thank you, Darwin!
This guy should go and Steve Jobs himself if he hates modern medicine so much.
Same reason all hateful right wing grifts succeed. It promises the target that their pathetic existence is a result of the (insert enemy here) keeping them down and in a world with (insert horrible atrocity here) they would be the superior special ubermensch they've always imagined themselves to be. It offers ego stroking and enables them to avoid the repercussions of their own actions.
CHUDs see life as a video game.
It doesn't matter if our ideas work or that they will solve any problems, they see that these solved problems as boring and want to keep them so they can feel tough or whatever. Have you seen even some of their fantasies? Look at The Turner Diaries, pages of just mental masturbation about the race war like it's a video game fight. Even their masochistic desire to make life excruciatingly difficult through all their handouts to rent-seekers is them insisting we are all noobs that need to "git gud" like them, It's all pure LARP. Even if they got what they wanted and had an all-white utopia, they'd just go to killing each other.
CHUDs are mentally on the same level of a Powerpuff girls villain.
"PPB-52's, wheels up and on the way."
