Remember, it's possible to like something while also accepting criticism of it. I know disabled comrades that have had similar experiences to this article as well. Asking for better access to the treats doesn't threaten the existence of the treats. :only-good-gamer:
This was one of my first thoughts while playing. How tf does the "best game ever made", in 2022 no less, have no accessibility options, in an already inaccessible game? For example, music and sound is essential to know when enemies are behind you or around. so just fuck deaf people, I guess?
One poster in a different Hexbear thread already had the sizzling hot take that "Elden Ring is the most accessible game of its kind."
If that was true, that'd be actually damning for From Software.
If that was true, that’d be actually damning for From Software.
That's the thing: it is true, and it is damning. Like it's objectively more approachable than their previous games with some of the QoL things that those sorely lacked, but it's still obtuse for no reason and has terrible controls that fundamentally break a lot of basic design best practices also for no reason.
It has decent things to it once you get past those serious problems, but actually getting to those means overcoming the terrible interface and controls itself and even there it's not like they're great, just somewhat enjoyable in spite of the terrible decision Fromsoft made.
Deaf and hard of hearing people are going to get screamed at, maybe even doxed, or otherwise driven out of internet spaces for so much as mentioning that having a sound specific warning mechanic with no visual alternatives to represent it makes the game unfair for them.
Fairness is a curse word in capital-G G*mer culture, though.
Yeah reminds me of when that one person notified Cyberpunk 2077 devs that the flashing lights on the sim chair section could trigger seizures and then peeps sent her emails to content meant to trigger it. Capital G Gamers are pieces of shit
I remember similar issues with The Witness having sections that colour blind or hard-of-hearing or even just tone-deaf people could not even in principle solve. And the same bastards came out with the same excuses. It's not just a hardcore Action-RPGer problem.
A good way is to either allow the visual/aural equivalent of subtitles to be toggled, or to better yet have less obvious cues in other ways to solve the puzzle. A clever designer might even put in ways that someone with different abilities might more easily solve a puzzle (this is trivial with colour blindness.)
Im confused about what im hearing, and I trust hexbear opinions more than generic 'gamer' opinions who would huff From Softwares farts if asked.. Seems like its a very good game with some weird ass issues according to most people here, not 'perfect' like some gaming outlets are claiming.
the weird ass issues are the same weird ass issues in basically any fromsoft game in the past decade... in other words if you're used to them they don't bother you, but if you are new to fromsoft games you go "wtf why is this a thing in the year of our lord two thousand and twenty two"
Nah i've played Fom software games too much for any of their usual jank to bother me.
I said in another thread, I do feel bad for the dudes who are going to buy this game expecting Skyrim just because its open world fantasy.
It's a solid souls game that generally does what the franchise does well better than previous titles, and what it does bad about the same or a little better than they did. There are tons of optional bosses absolutely everywhere and generally more of the short NPC storylines than previous titles so far, and the combat is smoother than ever. I haven't run into anything it does worse than previous souls games, just downgrades from some of Sekiro's improvements (though some parts of its combat system made it through under the hood, like the poise break staggers from just whacking enemies hard enough).
Honestly Sekiro and bloodborne made me feel like more of badass than i ever have in an RPG. especially sekiro once you got the combat nailed down to a science.
Is it more like Dark Souls 3 and bloodborne in its speed, or is it more like the older souls games in that regard?
It's like DS3, but refined a bit. Poise is a thing again and it makes big weapons feel good in a way they didn't in DS3, and there's true dual wielding unlike DS3's "there are some weapons that are technically two weapons" thing (also you can dual wield greatswords and it's very silly, if not particularly good).
Im a single player guy as well, and I haven't played Elden Ring yet, but I always fuckng hated getting invaded in From Soft games. Half the time it's just people trying to ruin your session and be a dick.
It's pretty easy to control invasions. Just don't summon multiplayer people. You can only be invaded if you've summoned someone for coop and the blue cops get called extremely fast if you don't already have two coop partners. Plus you can only ever have one invader unless you use a special item. And there are bonfires everywhere and it's pretty easy to get to most of them with your horse. Also the invasion item is, like, crazy difficult to get unless you complete an easily missed quest that requires you to be reasonably high level.
Re: Not summoning people; there is an item you can use to summon AI allies for most boss fights and difficult areas instead of summoning players, so you can entirely skip MP and still have buddies to help you fight.
lol yeah. I did that hack to remove the anti-cheat from Elden Ring to improve performance, which also forces you to play offline, but I consider being 'forced' offline to be a bonus.
Those are all valid criticisms.
If I were to apply theory brain, I'd guess a lot of the challenge and masochism for some players is rooted in the same energy of those people that brag about working twelve hours a day every day without taking a break. Or those who went without basic comfort and enjoyment in a workplace setting because they could handle that.
I think some people can enjoy souls games for other reasons, but I think the folks who are against difficult scales etc. are the ones I described above.
I think a difficult game that approached difficulty well was Bayonetta. The first few stages don't give the full catalog of her powers are you're introduced to new mechanics.
The real difficulty is totally optional - choosing the mode and trying to increase your score.
I still get satisfied dodging just in time to slow the enemies. I think that's the satisfaction people describe with souls games, but I think giving a couple of early/easy wins can just be fun. Especially if you revisit it and realize how much you've accomplished.
One thing I like about the souls games is their lack of interface/clutter. I wish games like elder scrolls or fallout could have that without making it difficult to interact with certain things. Like how the quest radar is tied to the target reticle. I can't pick things up and know if I'm stealing unless I have a perfect sense of where I am.
It all just boils down to options. Give people the options that work for them and don't give people shit for not playing it your way. If somebody wants to run around a map exploring the areas in very easy mode, let them.
The take I will stand for and fight for about such games is that accessiblity/difficulty options should not in any way negatively affect people that crave the challenge of higher difficulty, unless the purpose of that difficulty wasn't really the enjoyment of such difficulty but was instead some weird gatekeeping elitist chud Epic G*mer bullshit where anyone playing the game differently by having that choice is bad and wrong and destroying the experience somehow.
Do you have examples? I think I understand what you mean - like how later Mass Effect games have 'cinematic' mode? Or hand holding tutorial/levels that ruin potential exploration like many Pokemon games?
Some recent Nintendo games, including at least one Mario Kart, had a (very) easy mode for people that just wanted to sort of enjoy zooming around on the map. That was upsetting enough for Epic G*mers.
Even the suggestion of lower difficulty or introductory difficulty settings for Cuphead caused a notoriously toxic fanboy reaction to anyone and everyone that so much as brought it up.
Oh I see. I thought you disagreed with me. Yeah, Mario kart is a game I play with friends and I quietly take off the steering assist when we play.
Celeste's assist mode lets you slow down the game by up to half, pause and let you select a direction whenever you dash, skip entire chapters, have infinite climbing stamina, have infinite dashes, and can make you invulnerable.
That sounds like the best option, like the slow mode on guitar hero or the walking exercises you would do while learning an instrument.
The base game is genuinely too fast for people to learn.
Improvement happens at the edge of someone's abilities. It's genuine ableism to set a single difficulty.
I invite every gamer that says otherwise to spend 5,000 hours to learn Hammerklavier by brute force, only playing Hammerklavier, no training regimen, no sheets or other music to practice.
This might be an interesting watch on the subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIWivb-8C1w
Very valid criticisms, and I definitely agree on the direction aspect. I was told to go after someone in the big castle and follow the way the bonfire's point. So went to the castle and struggled with the boss you meet after entering. After that I decided to explore, but I don't have any real aims or direction and while that's fun I still have no idea what I'm doing. I also feel like I'm not getting that much stronger. I can deal decent damage it feels like, but that doesn't matter when most of the bosses just 1 shot me.
My first few hours have been like this. I've been watching a few beginners' guides to gain more of a sense of direction and I still kind of just feel lost.
Yeah, I'm blown away by the sheer size of the world and how many interesting things there are, but I feel like I'm barely engaging with it because I'm mostly just touring around rather than after a goal.
I guess I'll have to watch an LP and just see what they do and follow along like that for a bit. Maybe it becomes more clear later.
You've got to learn the boss's move set until you can dodge most of their attacks. Like 90%. Or you need a good shield and good armor and a ton of poise and a lot of stamina so you can tank hits. Or summon coop players or spirits to tank while you hang back and shoot spells or arrows.
Getting stronger is as much about developing skill as it is about getting better stats. More health, stamina, and FP will definitely make things easier because you'll be able to make more mistakes, but winning comes down to frame-perfect dodge rolls and mastering damage dealing abilities like parry, guard counters, bleed, or just raw damage output.
Also, that first boss is a major skill check. He telegraphs all his moves and has plenty of spots where you can get a hit in. He's arguably harder than other bosses you'll encounter at that level. He's basically the end of the tutorial. Once you can beat him you have git gudded enough to move to the rest of the game (which will kill you many times).
Ok, cuz when I first encountered him I was thinking I'm not doing enough damage and while i can dodge well enough I'm still running out of estus fast. On subsequent returns I've gotten him down to half health, which becomes hammer time.
I'm not new to Souls games, but getting my shit rocked the first time made me think maybe I'm supposed to do something else come back later. I'll just throw myself at him tonight then.
You definitely are supposed to do other things for a while. Try heading south and poking your head in everywhere you can. I think they did a major disservice to players by directing them right to Margit. He's a very difficult boss compared to some of the things you fight.
I've done a few of the dungeons since then beating a few bosses and exploring/running for my life through a few of the areas. I found the Berserk sword, which is what I'm aiming to use eventually.
I should be ok it'll just take a bit. Got frustrated last night
spoiler
Fighting a Sif knock off with magic. Felt like I could kill him but he was so fucking fast.
So I guess now is a good time to just go back to the main quest I was pushed towards.
If you're talking about Margit, try using the Jellyfish ashes. I tried using that jelly dude on my third try and absolutely rocked Margit.
Thanks I'll give it a try. I've picked up a few of the Ashes things, suppose I should actually use them lol
Give everyone all the access holy shit it isn’t hard, it’s a microscopic ask, what’s the problem?
I mean, from a console perspective, the controller schema is already pretty dense. I have no idea how you'd play it one-handed, for instance.
But things like color-blind settings and a fucking pause button shouldn't be that hard by comparison.
If you mean the stuttering, then not yet. All they've done is release an announcement acknowledging the issues exist. The first patch for Sekiro took a month so it probably won't be out too quick.
I'm talking about it straight up not working on graphics cards that don't support DirectX 12 feature version 12_0+.
I'm an old and don't keep up with anything even remotely new viddya game wise, but... this "rolling goat" thing has got me curious...
One of the coolest parts about TLoU2 was how extensive the accessibility options were. Ivenever seen a game with so many, from color blindness to aim lock, and more games need that.
The dark souls games don't need difficulty options, but they absolutely need more accessibility options
Recreated an account just to say Horizon: FW is leagues above “the dark souls of open world souls-like games” or whatever the journos have labeled Elden Ring. Especially in terms of the writing, world, and story and ESPECIALLY for us as lefties. I’ve been having the best time ever sinking my teeth into it, as traditional as some of its systems are I’ve never played a better synergy of writing, gameplay, and graphics. The combat is difficult af if you don’t do research or play the first game though so beware that. Accessibility options are available in it too! Don’t trust the reviewers and the angry gamers, it’s spectacular. I might need to make a post ranting about how it’s the best AAA title since TLOUII.
This is a bit, right? The writing for Horizon is atrocious, and it's open world design is painfully dated.
It’s an evolution of the first game, so yeah some of it is dated and some of it seems traditional, but overall it’s a massive improvement of the formula they started with, especially with how creative some of the “dated” shit is to try and spice it up. and yeah I love the writing especially how in depth every tiny quest is. Parts are cheesy but it’s a fucking video game where you kill robo triceratops in the future! The character interactions are super cute and no other open world game has the level of detail and care put into each little piece. Just my opinion though comrade, some people prefer reading scrolls or talking to scantily clad lolis to get their stories. I prefer decently acted well thought out storytelling.
I prefer decently acted well thought out storytelling.
Then why do you like Horizon?
Because it’s a massive step above any other open world story in terms of making every quest purposeful and charming… let me guess your bar for open world storytelling is Geraldino Witcher man Vibeo game and you’re butthurt that you can’t fuck every character you see on a unicorn.
That's a leap there, bud.
Being better than other open world games is a low bar, but you keep it up
What’s your bar for open world storytelling then? I think it’s fair to assess horizon by comparing it to other traditional open worlds just like it’s fair to compare ER to other souls like games. In the lane of open world, there’s nothing better than horizon
The writing is fine (when compared to other open world games). Serviceable even. But pretending it's good or well acted is a stretch. By nature, open world games can not be well written because they are almost entirely filler designed to arbitrarily stretch play time. This kills the story.
But they try really hard to make each side quest and everything not feel arbitrary, which brings the games writing above that of other open world games. A lot of the quests are directly connected to the main storyline and it’s effective.
Yeah that might be better than most open world games, but that's like saying it's the best written soap opera
Ppl are sick of open world games but if it’s a good game it’s a good game lol. A good example of a game within a genre is good even if you don’t personally like the genre. It’s like when a non 4x player reviews a paradox game and just doesn’t get it. I’m not even a huge fan of open world games but I’m still able to point out when a game is exceptional. Esp in comparison w the universally praised game the OP is about that appears to be just as dated and fucked up just in ways souls players have come to accept as part of the genre.
My experience was struggling with the shitty third person camera controls and uninstalling. It's been how long and we can't have a functional camera still? Literally more of the difficulty of the game comes from the crappy controls than trying to learn the moves or whatever.
I suppose the hostile controls and UI are seen as a feature to the true believers.
