“The movement have now deflated tyres on around 9,000 SUVs in cities across the world since March, striking continuously, and look set to surpass their goal of 10,000 SUVs deflated by Christmas,” the statement added.
The group has said its aim is “to make it impossible to own an SUV in the world’s urban areas”, condemning the vehicles as “unnecessary ‘luxury emissions’, flaunted by the wealthy, that are a climate disaster, cause air pollution and make our roads more dangerous”.
lol, lmao
reddit slash fuck cars is having a hand wringing field day over this one. Apparently, this is a "step too far" and will only "push people away" and "poison the message" or some such nonsense
Everything is a step too far when it inconveniences me
"What do you mean, the purpose of direct action isn't to make friends?"
It should be, although the point of the left movement is to build a proletarian movement to crush capitalism in its many forms, not to amend its goals to please reactionaries
Couldn't possibly make any waves. That's not what movements are for! It's for internet clout!
I see this as a generally good action, but yes, agree that I would like to see more.
The campaign is coordinated via a website that hosts instructions on using lentils or other pulses to jam open the valves on SUV tyres, slowly deflating them.
i'd rather you blew up some oil refineries but this is good too. lentil gang rise up
I've been subconsciously lathing this one for a while. The bit about not causing any damaged and only letting the air out not being a crime is pretty funny too.
i dont give a shit if this is in any place with robust public transit tbh. in Yankeeland it might be bad tactics but mf every SUV or oversized truck on the streets of a well endowed city is a crime against the people
unlimited violence to the SUV Kulaks, consideration shall be extended to the proletarians of buttfuck Nebraska until such a time as they get a trolley system. :sicko-fem: then we come for theirs too
Hell an SUV is probably worth more than what most kulaks had.
Really need to hit dealerships. They're all in one place and you can prevent them from being sold to begin with. Also you need to do more than let air out of the tires. They'll just make some mechanic go around and fill them back up, making their job harder. You really need to make them buy new tires. Then purchasing, receiving, and accounting have to get involved. They have to source new tires. They have to wait on delivery. They have to pay way more money than making some 19 year old trainee fill up tires. Cause a tire shortage for SUVs. Can't sell them without tires. Can't really transport them anywhere either.
Also you need to do more than let air out of the tires
Agreed, though I know for a fact in France for example they're doing only that because you incur far far less of a penalty if caught (compared to, say, puncturing the tire). Makes finding new members easier.
Or you could take the next step like that :gigachad: Cal Tech student back in the day. Pretty sure he was a lone wolf, but the pigs tried to tie him to ELF and I think they stuck some terrorism charges on top of the arson. Thankfully they got overturned, eventually.
You know, I bet that would land better 20 years of inaction and reluctant consciousness later. :fedposting:
there's an cool braniac (british tv show, kinda sexist) where they do a pot of thermite into the engineblock of a car and i have never been brave enough.
enjoy your terrorism charges if you go for that. maybe there's a middle-ground between deflating the tires and blowing the car up.
Last year I found this thing in a parking lot which a nearby dealer uses for overstock (It still has the peel-off shit on it).
I receive: 4 brand new tires and rims :trade-offer: You receive: 4 medium sized cement landscaping doohickies.
Some sort of sprayable solution that absolutely ruins the paint. Could hit and run very fast, manyvehicles. Can't sell shit with ruined paint
yes, it will take paint off down to the metal if allowed to sit
I thought that was brake cleaner? Brake fluid is just a specific oil, which should wash off.
brake cleaner used to be harsher, but it's still pretty bad. anyway, brake fluid absolutely does ruin paint in a few minutes.
you may also be interested in 'aircraft paint stripper' which is a super toxic gel you can paint onto a surface and it'll get hot and flake that stuff right off. if you really need to bring some dickhead's luxury car down to bare metal in a hurry, that's probably the best bet
it will also take layers of skin off so, fun stuff
If one is not an aircraft mechanic, is it still purchaseable?
In the US it's sold at Walmart even. It's labeled as "aircraft remover" which is hilarious.
if only the poor folks in the twin towers had know such a product existed.
most autoparts stores will have it. it's not controlled, don't think you even need to show ID like buying spray paint in many shops. i'm not mistaken for under 21 so some places might check ID, strongly doubt it though.
If it makes someone think twice about buying an SUV when they can take a train then I think it's a good thing. Although there are plenty of working class people who are car dependent because of crappy public transport infrastructure in the US, and some SUVs are a good option for driving in snowy winter weather (and in fact other options like a 2WD car may not work at all) and it wouldn't be right for them to be caught up in this. Of course it's easy to tell them apart from the petit bourg big car obsessed - one of them is usually 10 model years behind the other
:this:
No one is gonna be like "Oh no, guess I'll have to learn how to ride the bus"
They're going to demand greater police presence and get more paranoid and violent
Now, if they could do this to, I don't know, a fleet of ICE trucks or the ham wagons they put in Piggy Parking, that would be great
These actions objectively reduce SUV sales in affected areas, which objectively reduces CO2 emissions.
Last months book recommendation on this site was “how to blow up a pipeline” which goes into this exact same tactic in greater detail. Read it, and stop worrying about inconveniencing the worst people you know irl.
and stop worrying about inconveniencing the worst people you know irl.
srsly, can't understand why people are pearl clutching here unless it's the feds clutching at the bukkake that the oil execs dressed them with
Honestly not digging it up for you, no shade just trying to cook dinner. 2019 Sweden actions like this led to a reduction in SUV sales in affected areas, that should be enough to go on to find the primary source.
Dealership -> Cameras, high alert after the few cases, high risk for everyone involved
Private house -> cameras, increased police presence after a couple visits, high risk for getting shot by angry Chuds or pigs
I think most of those cases were done at SUVs which were parked outside on the road.
As someone who lives in a European city with a robust public transit network, if you had a family with a bunch of kids you'd probably want a car anyway, unless you were like a fanatically committed Green Party voter
spoiler
... or poor
Eh, maybe if you're just zipping around town it's fine. However if you live in a poor town or a poor part of town my experience has been that the city does not give enough of a fuck to do a good job plowing. Plus ice and slush are still a concern even on plowed roads sometimes. And some folks don't have a job they can afford to miss or be late for when the weather turns shitty.
I do agree on the 4wd cars not needing to be big point
This is dumb. How is inconveniencing individuals, most of whom probably aren’t rich, going to accomplish anything? Not a single person is going to sell their SUV over this.
“How to Blow Up a Pipeline” was literally last months book club recommendation on this site. Read it.
:read-theory:
That's the argument for this, but the argument against it is:
- It's small enough scale that it does not meaningfully impact climate change (the book isn't titled "How To Smash A Gas Station Window")
- What it might do is get some comrades criminal records, generate spiteful opposition to climate action, and provide fresh material for "violent antifa terrorists" narratives that whip libs back in line anytime the zone gets too cool
Focusing efforts on institutional polluters seems like a lot better use of energy.
Luckily the book has a lot more content than just the title, and advocates with a compelling argument for this exact same action.
Any anti-capitalist or anti-climate action has the risk of a criminal record, that’s baked into the cake of the system BY DESIGN.
on institutional polluters seems like a lot better use of energy
Great, we can do both. Bad news though, both of your counter-arguments apply 100 fold to anyone who wants to blow up an oil pipeline.
I'm legit interested in hearing the argument for small-scale stuff like this. It seems like all risk and no reward.
both of your counter-arguments apply 100 fold to anyone who wants to blow up an oil pipeline
A pipeline is at least big enough to make waves on a national or even international scale. Look at the impact of Russia taking Nord Stream 1 offline. That kind of impact justifies all the stuff in the second point, and makes the action itself more defensible.
I’m legit interested in hearing the argument for small-scale stuff like this.
Then read the book the title of which you used as a foundation of your argument. The basics are that when this action took place in 2019 it saw a very significant dip in SUV sales in Sweden as a response.
If we throw enough people in prison for drugs, will that lower the incidence of drug use? General deterrence mostly doesn't work.
This has got to be a troll.
You’re now comparing using the police state against people with drug addiction to deflating tires of SUVs??
No, I'm saying "punish a few people for X and you'll lower the incidence of X" usually doesn't hold water if X is in any way desirable.
There's a wealth of literature that extremely harsh penalties for recreational drug use don't deter recreational drug use. So why would a relatively mild penalty for driving an SUV deter people from buying SUVs?
Because the things are so entirely different that your analogy makes 0 sense in the actual world.
Sorry man, this isn’t academic hypotheticals. It worked in Sweden in 2019 so idk what to tell you.
How well do speeding tickets keep people from speeding?
It worked in Sweden in 2019
If something worked once but failed a million other times, "it worked once" isn't very convincing.
Cool, I listed the worked once now list a million other times it hasn’t. I’ll wait until you get to one million.
Yes, we need more global action like the one that worked in Sweden in 2019. I agree.
https://internationalfleetworld.com/european-car-market-drops-in-june-as-suv-sales-decline/
-25% in 2019 compared to the European market decline of 7%. Not saying all of that is due to this action, and nobody could, but an effective decrease of an additional 18% in sales is nothing to sneeze at.
Edit: Sorry, that was just June 2019. I will continue looking for further sources after I’m done eating dinner
That’s global sales. Nice to try to use obviously unrelated statistics as a cudgel to stop climate action though. Very cool!
If this worked a million other times, you'd see some widespread effect.
Lol then what’s the comment about “this has worked a million other times” supposed to even mean? This is Looney Tunes land
I misread this:
when was it tried a million other times, dipass?
As "when it was tried."
The original comment was still far away from getting the point, which is that there are tons of examples of similar strategies not working (see speeding tickets doing a poor job of getting people to drive the speed limit). You don't need to try this exact thing a million times to look at similar things and question its value.
those things are not similar and you should shut up and read the book that has been recommended to you dozens of times by now
If a bunch of people who've read the book can't come up with a convincing explanation of how deflating SUV tires is supposed to do anything, I'm not going to get that from the book, either.
:PIGPOOPBALLS:
it's been explained multiple times. did you lose the ability to read? i know american literacy is in the toilet but you're just ridiculous.
there's an audio version linked in the book club threads, go listen to the book, jackass. don't talk to me again until you have. generally adult books are not able to be compressed into 2 paragraph forum comments.
Fuuuuuuuuck off.
The explanation provided is dubious at best and meaningless correlation at worst. Others have pointed this out. People don't automatically agree with what you say just because you said it. Learn how to convince people instead of this online "I guess you can't READ" bullshit.
Almost like deflating tires of SUVs as a means of climate action hasn’t been tried a million other times and is different than giving someone a speeding ticket. Weird.
Lol then what's the comment about "this has worked a million other times" supposed to even mean? This is Looney Tunes land
I’ve never said anything about this working a million times at all. As far as I know you are the only one who brought up “million other times” in reference to your theory on incentives and ticketing and putting people in jail for drugs or whatever. I’ve never made a claim that this has been “tried a million times”
And now I’d appreciate it if you’d stop engaging with me. At this point you aren’t even making sense and responding to me as if I claimed something that you brought into the conversation to begin with.
Also, newsflash driving an SUV might be slightly less addictive than heroine. Not sure though, might have to check the extensive literature.
We're talking about it right now -- can you give even a sentence or two on this point? I can't go and read a whole book immediately.
I just did.
The basics are that when this action took place in 2019 it saw a very significant dip in SUV sales in Sweden as a response.
I thought that was responding to something else, sorry. If that's the evidence for it generating a larger effect, I'm wondering why general deterrence seems to work with this and not work in so many other contexts.
Because having your car tires deflated leading to selecting a different vehicle is so entirely different than being thrown in jail for drug charges like you are running around this thread talking about.
It’s difficult for me to think of two things that are more different.
Fine, look at speeding tickets. How well do they keep people from speeding?
Why do you keep insisting on looking at different things. This thing has already been done and was effective, why would we disregard that and instead look at the migration habits of pigeons that have been given tickets for shoplifting corn at regional state fairs instead?
Idk what your real hang up is about this, but it’s getting weird.
Why am I searching for more tested comparisons for this hyper-specific and small scale action? Seriously?
instead look at the migration habits of pigeons that have been given tickets for shoplifting corn
You're intentionally missing a very simple point, so I'm done replying.
You’re intentionally comparing deflating a tire to being thrown in jail for drugs. So I should have been done 5 posts ago. Silly shit honestly.
Probably pretty well, considering the fact that I don't speed to avoid tickets, and if there were no chance of a ticket, I would speed all the time.
(Do you seriously not believe in incentives or enforcement of any kind lol?)
I do it =/= most people do it. Some people respond to incentives and enforcement, but the manner of enforcement for stuff like this usually doesn't work. Tons of people speed even if the possibility of a ticket causes you personally not to.
I'm going to call it no one worried about the criminality of vandalism is going to blow up a pipeline
provide fresh material for “violent antifa terrorists” narratives that whip libs back in line anytime the zone gets too cool
They literally make stuff up, or continue talking about petty vandalism cases from decades ago. "Providing material" is meaningless, they're clutching their pearls about how we're violent superterrorists regardless of whether we've done anything at all. May as well meet their expectations at that point.
The people who buy whatever story is put in front of them are pretty far from being reachable anyway. I'm talking about people who don't buy "antifa terrorism" stuff as a matter of course, but who aren't on board enough to think it's kinda sorta alright if there's a real example.
It's really cool that we've developed a culture of reading not for knowledge but for vanity.
You disagreed with someone just now. And you read a book so that you could tell them you read a book. Not to impart or distribute knowledge or actually argue back. You just showed them your merit badge and laughed at them for not having the same one as you. What's the point of reading books? What's the point of learning things?
Nah, I gave the general gist of the argument all over this post actually. I also gave some keywords for people to investigate similar actions in Sweden in 2019.
Sorry I’m cooking dinner and don’t have time to share my book report for people that don’t actually want to read anything about the topic.
If you’re interested in finding out more literally google the book title and read some reviews, or go dive into some of the book club threads from last month on this very website.
What else would you like me to do in order to pass your bar of “reading for vanity”?
Here’s a wild fucking idea. If you aren’t willing to have a productive argument with someone, don’t start it!
Here’s a wild fucking idea! Maybe me telling someone to read a book isn’t actually me arguing with them but is instead, idk, recommending that they read the book that I’m mentioning!
Hilarious accusing me of :reddit-logo: but then instantly assuming mentioning that someone should read a book related to the topic at hand is engaging in an argument.
I’ve relayed a point over and over again. This action helped reduce SUV sales in Sweden in 2019, if you’d like to know more read last months book club selection “how to blow up a pipeline”.
Fuck. Never though I’d get this kind of reaction from recommending a fucking book to read.
Fuck. Never though I’d get this kind of reaction from recommending a fucking book to read.
Consider; the book you're telling people to read actually tells people to take action (violent revolutionary action at that!) and that's scary, rather than just rehashing 100+ year old history in an academic circlejerk
Truth. The reaction to this is really opening my eyes about this site honestly. The tiniest bit of coordinated climate action has half the people in this thread bringing up every possible argument they can think of to put it down.
I’ve been here since the beginning, and this is honestly just depressing.
same, same. been involved in leftism a lot longer tho and i gotta be honest: get used to this :doomer:
Fuck. Never though I’d get this kind of reaction from recommending a fucking book to read.
Yeah this is bullshit. You weren't approaching them with that energy. You were telling them they were wrong and that they should correct themselves by reading a book. I made my point here. If all you want to argue about is rewriting your intentions in the first place you should be editing your original comments instead of replying here.
Cool glad you were able to divine my energy through the internet. I’m disengaging with you. Hope you have an amazing rest of your day.
Yeah I'm sorry but this is clown shit. This barely qualifies as "propaganda of the deed" and only because its way easier to slash the tires of an unattended vehicle than shoot a head of state or CEO
Not slash, just tuck a lentil under the cap and let it deflate.
this is europe not the US, people are not obligated to have cars and if out of all cars to have, you chose a large, loud, polluting car that makes it less safe for everyone to be in a city, you are in fact, rich
Are SUV's even driven by wealthy people these days? I feel like this is rehashing culture war shit from 20 years ago. Like, it's pretty ridiculous to go after SUVs when those oversized pickup trucks are sitting right there.
I don't see anything about pickup trucks in their website. Going over the website, their praxis starts to make a lot more sense. It seems like this group originated in the UK. Their American English pamphlet, in contrast to the "just English" version, still manages to have British spelling in it. I guess SUV's have a different customer base in the UK because all the people I know who own SUV's are working class lol. Plus, the UK has functional public transit, so there's less excuses to own an SUV.
I think this is just a classic example of praxis that would work in one country not working in another country.
Yeah I was thinking the same. Those horrible pick ups are worse than SUVs. I'm down to deflate both tho
edit: okay guys fine I guess they're not slashing tires they're just wasting time doing next to nothing
fuck me for assuming "deflating" meant slashing the tire when they say they want to "make it impossible to own a SUV" :shrug-outta-hecks:
Could just read the article before making a multiple paragraph response about how it would have such a detrimental effect on you and your family’s well being.
I get it, I come from a working class family that drives SUVs as well, but come on just read the article at a minimum.
I don't care enough to read every article that gets posted here and tbh if that's all they're doing they're literally wasting their time on performance art, a car powered air pump costs literally $40 wow they're really making ownership impossible :fidel-salute:
The book “how to blow up a pipeline” which was this websites book recommendation last month advocates for this exact action, and similar action in Sweden in 2019 proved effective in reducing SUV sales. You can denigrate the action as much as you’d like, doesn’t change the fact that it has worked.
Not trying to provoke, but is there, like, quantitative evidence to support that inference? I'd be skeptical to leap to that conclusion (re effect on SUV sales)
whatever I do with my life is none of your business and doesn't change "letting air out of tires by deflation" from being weak shit when their stated goal is "make it impossible to own an SUV"
portable air pumps exist but wow go kings
They're not even slashing tires, they're letting the air out. At most your mom would have to spend half an hour putting a spare on and then driving to a gas station to refill the old one.
These comments show both that: 1) this website is painfully American, and 2) Americans don't know anything about other countries
Yeah SUV in Europe means shit like range Rovers right, not a Toyota Fortuner.
Am I right?
Sort of, yeah. There's much more of a divide between a small car and a large car. "Mid-sized SUVS" didn't really exist in Europe until the last decade and now they are only kind of popular. Mainly because of engine-size and fuel regulations, and tighter restrictions on what constitutes a "large vehicle" in urban areas. Hatchbacks have always been much more common if someone wants a 5-door vehicle.
Basically, in most of Europe, in order to own the disgustingly large SUVs that are common in America, you have to pay a lot of taxes, or live outside the city.
Get a Honda Fit. It's basically the same thing but with the benefits of a subcompact tossed into it.
Love to assume bad things about my comrades when they disagree with me. There's no way they could possibly disagree otherwise!
Love to stalk my comrades around and make snide comments on their obviously joke posts after saying I won’t respond to their arguments anymore!
You're being an ass all over this thread over criticism as mild as "I don't think this will work."
Okay. You said you were done replying to me, and I’d appreciate it if you’d stop stalking me around and continuing to engage with me. I don’t believe you are arguing in good faith, and I feel uncomfortable with someone called “420blazeit69” seeking me out specifically to make sarcastic comments towards me.
Please stop. Leave me alone.
Done posting, came out of a long hibernation on this site and it looks like I’m going right back in.
Upbeared not because I necessarily agree about prison but because any adventurous Chapos who want to do this should be thinking about ring cams.
at this point if you're gonna do an adventure you better be doing a mass pork harvest or nothing at all
Police will arrest anyone with beans in their pockets and give them 20 years under environmental terrorist laws
The crushed remains of spark plugs count as burglary tools in two states. And this is regardless whether they actually got used or not.
Not really sure how to feel about this one. While the "this is going to push people away" argument is pretty typical libshit, I have a really hard time imagining how this is going to do anything but piss off anyone who isn't extremely invested in the cause. And yes I know this is a thing Andreas Malm talked about, I loved that book but I was skeptical of this tactic when he was discussing it too. Am I being dumb here?
I don't think you're being dumb, but you're definitely being a :LIB:
Is this action going to help their cause? Nah probably not. Should we care if it's going to "push people away?" Definitely not. They're doing more than I am sitting here posting on this website.
Well, it has been demonstrated to reduce the purchase of new SUV's in an area experiencing frequent tyre deflations. It objectively reduces CO2 emissions, so I'll say it's a good thing.
Not doubting you but I would love a source on that that I could spread around.
I'm incredibly skeptical of that claim. General deterrence likely doesn't work even when you throw people in prison, but it's supposed to work when the consequence is occasional tire deflation?
How many people are even aware of this?
Tbh people are angry enough that it's made much wider news than I expected the few times it's happened, but yeah the prison comparison is a strong point.
Compare it to speeding tickets, then. How well do they keep most people from speeding?
Tons of people speed all the time. Going 5 over in the U.S. is taken for granted even though there are tons of "I got a ticket for 3 over" stories out there. In plenty of places you'll get passed doing 10-15 over.
Comparing this to speeding tickets is nonsense too though, to be clear.
It's reddit-tier pedantry to treat this as if it is some wholly unique thing that has zero comparisons anywhere else. The only time people pretend reasoning by analogy is some foreign concept is when every comparison brought up calls what they're saying into question.
It doesn't matter where the incentive comes from -- the state or some political group.
Either way, if you drive in a certain manner (too fast or in an SUV) you run some risk of a minor bad outcome (a ticket or a flat). Most people don't take risks like this too seriously if there is any appeal whatsoever to doing what they want.
Every little bit helps, I guess, but the skepticism a lot of people here have for this is precisely because they don't belive little stuff like this is at all meaningful.
A bad idea is a bad idea whether you have a better one or not. If I tell people to shit in their hat to protest climate change you don't need a better idea to call that nonsense.
Comparing throwing people that are addicted to drugs into prison instead of giving them access to healthcare to people deflating car tires is in no way a “strong point”.
I think it might not be people directly worried about tire deflation, that simply won't ever happen enough for people to realistically worry about it. But the message going along with it being spread, is probably making people think about whether they actually need an SUV before buying one. Some people will be outraged when they hear about tire deflations happening, if they do anything they might purchase some type of locking device to go over their air valve. Others will have the idea of SUVs causing emissions reinforced in their mind.
So if it actually is reducing purchases, I'd say it's a good propaganda campaign.
I read about it in "How to Blow up a Pipeline" by Andreas Malm. We had the book club in /c/literature cover it back in august. He specifically mentions efforts by tire deflators in Sweden, and looks at the rate of SUV purchase following their efforts in 2007 compared to other nations. The swedes bought significantly fewer.
Gonna need to hit a lot more than 600 SUV's to make a meaningful dent, and you won't get the numbers to do that if you can't get people on your side. This comes across to the majority of people like weird crank shit, and therefore actively harms the movement's ability to gain an effective mass.
gonna need to hit a lot more than 600 SUV’s
Good thing they’ve done 9,000 and counting.
And it’s not just putting them out of commission for a bit that causes the reduction, sales of SUVs in affected areas drop dramatically.
I don't think this will save the world, but it's a massive step up from Extinction Rebellion so :rat-salute:
Which was last months book club recommendation on this very site and yet half the posts in here are talking about lib optics. Wtf is going on in here.
:fedposting: Please stop inconveniencing the first world! That’s not how we do a climate action!
A lot of people here are first worlders and accepting the validity of this method (however valid it is) requires some self criticism which frankly is not easy. I think we should be giving people levity as often as possible in situations like this. Most people will come around if you give them space to self crit.
I'm not sure anyone is questioning the validity of this -- "ban SUVs" would get nearly unanimous support here. People are questioning whether this is meaningful action or adventurist pranking.
