:liberalism: My politics may have gotten a bit extreme for your taste
"She’s kind of trying to do good or whatever she’s trying to do, and she’s losing — I mean, I don’t know,"
Alright so similarities:
- She's a loser
- She's rich
I don't know guys, this one kind of tracks.
Lmao she is such a loser it's really funny. Her whole family hates her, everyone at her job hates her.
This seems unfair to Mon Mothma because though she is kind of a shit lib she is also sending large amounts of money to the space Viet Cong
She's sending money down a well. She didn't really know where it was going. She just assumed it was to a generic "good cause".
I forget at what point she's made aware, but I believe she was as shocked by the news as anyone. Even raced to Skatsgard's shop to demand he admit responsibility.
She is, its really odd how much space they give her in the show when the culmination of her arc is just potentially throwing her husband under the bus.
I'll be real by the end I was so tired of her segments. They just didn't feel thematically relevant beyond the "she is in a lavish prison" contrast. If we needed more Coruscant I would rather have had more scenes with Loni
Or with Leia! It was very cool seeing her at all as a character, and it would be much cooler to see how she got radicalized to the rebellion as well.
Fingers crossed that Fascist piece of shit gets to have a little one on one time with Saw Gerrera.
She didn't do that, but she was shocked and was like "how could you do that, people are going to suffer for this" and he's like "this was always going to happen and besides maybe this will get people to rise up". Essentially Luthen is an accellerationist.
she is also sending large amounts of money to the space Viet Cong
this is how libs view giving money to ukraine so it checks out
actually i think he's right, for the entire series she
spoiler
basically does nothing except for financial impropriety
Easily the least revolutionary character other than the actual imperials. But her arc is also suggestive of the pressures building within the failing Republic.
She can't get leverage as a politician anymore. Her original philanthropic designs are piss in the river. She's a hostage to staff more loyal to the empire than her own payroll. A bit of debt throws her in with the mob for fear of attracting the attention of an imperial audit.
How does a person like Nancy Pelosi become radicalized to the point that she's standing on the deck of a rebel frigate in the midst of a fire fight in RotJ? This is how.
The death of Aldaraan was a radicalizing moment. As it could have been her and her planet.
As to her, Palpatine was now a mad dog who was bad for business.
As she was a chancellor 4 years before rotj.
If not for the Death Star the rebels would probably have lost.
Idk about that. Lando didn't seem terribly radicalized.
But it was a pattern throughout the OT. Otherwise disinterested parties - Solo, Lando, the Ewoks - are moved to action when pressed by the imperials.
Even Luke in the beginning was going to be an Imperial pilot until his parents are killed
His childhood friends who joined the imperial navy defected to be rebels by the time the movie started.
I love the idea that every kid on a shithole planet joins purely intending to defect.
I think it's more "Joins, realises "This fucking sucks" and then defects/deserts.
In the old EU Han Solo, Wedge Antilles, and Kyle Katarn all went through this.
Wedge is only a defector in the new canon. I wont do my presentation on why his original backstory is better though
nah, EU Wedge worked at a space gas station before his parents got killed, then got revenge and joined the rebellion
Phantom Affair is so fucking good. Much better than the suggested origin in the short comic "lucky". Phantom Affair says everything you need to know about Wedge, and why he is so ready to do the right thing no matter what
They join because propaganda and immediately go “I think we are the baddies” and peace out and manage to find the rebels fast.
Pelosi:
:you-think-this-is-funny: they froze my foreign bank accounts and you're laughing
Husband is always drinking and gambling. Probably has a driver because his license is revoked from DUI's.
In the new canon Mon Mothma's defining act as the first chancellor of the New Republic is to disarm the Galactic Military in the face of an obviously bellicose imperial remnant (who totally promises they aren't interested in reconquering the galaxy), and then she promptly retires. This leads to individual systems militarizing themselves and then pledging support to the First Order, who easily destroy the New Republic at the first opportunity.
It almost seems like political satire, but no, it is just a hasty post hoc rationalization for returning to the A New Hope status quo.
but no, it is just a hasty post hoc rationalization for returning to the A New Hope status quo.
the old extended universe wasn't perfect but holy shit is it better than JJ's stool
She disarmed the space military then retired? She'd make a great mirror universe Pelosi
Nah Pelosi is absolutely delighted to fund these trillion dollar plane projects that can't fly in the fucking rain and flip over after landing.
We could of codified the destruction of the empire, but we considered the matter closed.
He continued, “She’s always presented as very proper and sober and perfectly put together all the time in canon and it just seemed like that was such a perfect opportunity to say, ‘Well what’s really going on behind here?’
But like, if you are setting aside all of the EU stuff from novels; in the OT she's only in one scene of RotJ talking about the death star plans and has a 0 dialogue cameo appearance in Revenge of the Sith.
What exactly is there to dig into here?
"Yeah, you see that guy at the end of the bar? That's Kum Guzlerr, he's a notorious smuggler who once stole one of Darth Vader's capes and lost it in a card game to Lando in exchange for a pair of brown leather boots you may remember from..."
In fact, if you had read "Tales from the Mos Eisley Cantina" you'd know he is a card-carrying jizz-wailer that he frequently uses as cover when hiding from the law.
I feel like thats how most of history really is, except you really shouldnt think of it as people but as discreetly different things at certain times and places. Materialism basically. :marx-hi:
What exactly is there to dig into here?
nothing. which is why i thought they were being ironic
She does have speaking lines in a few deleted scenes from Revenge of the Sith. She's definitely more of a shitlib there, she even admits to being a Republic loyalist than a radical.
https://youtu.be/amALBl3kOtU
She is also entirely comfortable with sacrificing plebs as cannon fodder and getting others to do her dirty work then acting all uppity when people talk back to her.
Does anyone remember the names of the men who fought in the Charge of the Light Brigade?
Great people theory is bs. Real humans put their necks, bodies, lives on the line and someone eating steak every day a world away gets the credit.
We should remember the miners who took Lithium out of the earth before Musk. We should know their names.
Who built Thebes of the 7 gates ? In the books you will read the names of kings. Did the kings haul up the lumps of rock ?
And Babylon, many times demolished, Who raised it up so many times ?
In what houses of gold glittering Lima did its builders live ? Where, the evening that the Great Wall of China was finished, did the masons go?
Great Rome is full of triumphal arches. Who erected them ?
Over whom did the Caesars triumph ? Had Byzantium, much praised in song, only palaces for its inhabitants ?
Even in fabled Atlantis, the night that the ocean engulfed it, The drowning still cried out for their slaves.
The young Alexander conquered India. Was he alone ?
Caesar defeated the Gauls. Did he not even have a cook with him ?
Philip of Spain wept when his armada went down. Was he the only one to weep ?
Frederick the 2nd won the 7 Years War. Who else won it ?
Every page a victory. Who cooked the feast for the victors ?
Every 10 years a great man. Who paid the bill ?
So many reports.
So many questions.
I got those vibes when I watched it. It's a decent show in a sea of TV shit. I definitely caught the ShitLib vibes from the character.
can you imagine the reaction if he said he modeled Dedra Meero after Kamala?
so basically the series is going to tilt into how the partisans are extremists that need to be dealt with so the moderate faction with Mothma is the right answer because the alliance is based on hope and having the moral high ground
Theyre still working with the partisans in rogue one, albeit saw goes wildly insane with some sort of desert mind squid situation
I mean Saw is calling everyone not part of his faction out in andor as feds, libs, splitters, and wreckers. Not that he's wrong though.
This is actually the most correct he's ever been shown to be. He didn't want to throw in with Kreegyr because Kreegyr was an idiot who was going to get his people killed, and he was exactly right about that. Hell, he talked shit about people who wanted to restore the Republic and he's ultimately shown to be right about that too, given the Sequels
Restore the Republic
An interesting angle is that Andor says in the movie that he's been fighting the empire since he was 6, and the Andor show runners decided to portray him as a child on a planet devastated by imperial extraction... Except the imperial extraction was long before the Old Republic became the Galactic Empire.
I think they're not going to forget that he's ideologically aligned against the liberal Old Republic almost as much as the Empire.
That's true. Hell, when Maarva takes him, she outright says that the Republic is on its way and they'll kill everyone there.
I'm mostly excited for what this could do for the portrayal of Mon Mothma, given that we know she's ideologically committed to restoring the Republic, and eventually does
And when Clem (andors dad) gets executed for
rabble rousingprotest policing, is it stormtroopers or clone troopers who do the deed? Does Syril’s childhood bedroom have stormtrooper or clone trooper action figures? The Republic was a type of EmpireAlso, Karn's childhood room has a bunch of clone trooper action figures. It's such an interesting detail to specifically say that that little fascist shit grew up idolizing the Republic
I love this line of thinking because the prequels and Clone Wars were basically about how the Republic was basically already an empire, but they rarely if ever seemed to acknowledge that. This thing that feels like the central theme of those works also somehow feels like subtext. Like, the very first episode of Clone Wars has Yoda convince people to join the Republic and the episode ends with a Republic Cruiser, which obviously looks very similar to a Star Destroyer, entering their system. There's a little tongue-in-cheek irony to it, but it's mostly played as a victory rather than very ominous symbolism. And I've had multiple arguments with people who thought that the slavery of the clones was fine because the Jedi treated them well, which A) no they didn't, they threw them into a meat grinder and B) even if they did, they're still basically child soliders.
My point is, I'm glad we have a work directly engaging with this thought and I hope they go further with it. And now I also want something set before or during the prequels that explores this even more, and explicitly.
The Umbara arc is the biggest missed opportunity in the "clones are slaves" and to this day it irritates me.
General Krell basically mistreated the clones, kept throwing them in harm's way because his strategy was just brute forcing everything, and it got to the point he was going to execute soldiers who take out a giant enemy ship because their mission was unauthorised.
The clones only turned against him when it was revealed he was working against the Republic, which lets the audience paint his disregard for clone lives as "oh he was just evil, the jedi don't do that"
Someone once said the arc should have ended in the clones turning against him after the execution order and covering it up, basically rising up and defending themselves.
I would like that. Honestly, the thing I'd like the most is if Krell was never a Seperatist, if he was just really callous and cruel to his clones and the Jedi knew and enabled it because he "got results". That was basically the Jedi strategy at a structural level anyway.
I stole this part from A More Civilized Age, but what if that was the case, and then there was one more episode at the end of the arc for his trial and the Jedi just closed rank to protect him from what they viewed as (maybe correctly?) a power play by Palpatine?
That could be cool, but I do really like the idea that the clones just off him, blame it on the Umbarans and then swear amongst themselves to never let that happen to them again.
Yeah, I'd like that too. And that would also work way better if Order 66 was something that they were all aware was a thing like Episode 3 kinda implied, rather than it being a mind control thing.
It's Clone Troopers but right after Order 66 aka the establishing of the empire. The very early days basically.
This. In fact the rally is pro=Republic. You hear one of the guys who gets shot yell "long live the Republic"
Nah you are right about the themeing. I take it as saying that the Republicans and the Separatists so suddenly found themselves fighting the same enemy. All the reasons the Seppies hated the Republic remain, and all the affection the citizens of Ferrix have for their republic have been taken away. The clones within a moment became stormtroopers, which plays into why the CIS was fighting them (on an individual level) and how the Republic's good had become so easily excised.
Yeah taking into account R1 and the OT it seems like Mothma gets dragged along through the revolution by the more radical wing of her faction, pretty sure she isn't relevant at all in the grand scheme until after the Empire is defeated and she becomes a politician in the New Republic (and fails to stop the First Order from rising lmao).
The New Republic getting wrecked by the fascist breakaway they neglected to deal with is a lovely, unintentional piece of commentary on Liberalism in general.
:chefs-kiss:
all that's missing is space operation paperclip, although the oldschool rebellion was hoovering up defectors left and right so maybe that's where wookiee von braun shows up, idk.
the big mouse really wants to portrait the people actually doing something for the rebellion as insane people.
The very existence of the OT will always undermine this however, since we know that the "insane" people were right and they won in the end. And the prequels will always be about how the "sane" people failed, and even the sequel trilogy wouldn't have happened had the "sane" people not failed again off-screen.
Star Wars is almost forced to be based simply because the enemy is the Empire.
He mentioned a book by Simon Sebag Montefiore called Young Stalin, chronicling the life of the soon-to-be tyrant leader of Russia. In the first few pages, the author writes about Stalin using a team of 15 to rob the State Bank in Tiflis, Georgia. This was in 1907, in the midst of the Russian Revolution.
Yeah i read the book and lol Stalin is not portrayed in a “good” way
one of the chapter:
"The milkman" : was Stalin a Tsarist agent?
it's a decent book, most of the book has a footnote about a person who knew stalin and how some years later they got purged when he was in power
Didn't he laugh and say she wasn't when asked in another interview?
Wait, why is this in the dunk tank? Was Mothma secretly based in the eu or something? I would've though "Mon Mothma is a lib" would be a very lukewarm take around here.
Would actually be kind of cool if they did a Star Wars that takes place a few generations after the overthrow of the Empire and whatever the rebel alliance has turned into sucks and needs to be overthrown.
The new Republic kicked Leia out because it got out that Vader was her father. Absolute morons.
