For me the movie leon the professional takes the cake. It's got great action and performances but the movie is literally about the directors own affair with a pre-teen girl via Jean Reno and Natalie Portman. Ever since I learned this I had a hard time coming back to visit the film.
Jean Reno had to make his character mentally slow so the character just seemed aloof to the child’s flirtatious advances lol
The only part of that entire series worth watching is in La Femme Nikita when "the cleaner" shows up at the embassy and shoots every mothafucka in the room.
Otherwise forget it.
The misogyny is for sure but he is a bad guy who you're meant to dislike. Growing up with the show, I can say as a little kid I didn't like how he treated Harley and took it as a bad person doing a bad thing that you shouldn't do. I'm not everyone but I can recall that as a childhood memory, I wasn't really raised in any hyper masculine or sexist way in the first place, my parents are libs but absolutely NOT bigots and would crush anything like that if I repeated it from school or TV. It's a bad character doing a bad thing, it does play it a bit comedic, and I do gotta lower the bar cause it was written by 1992 guys and there were some mindsets. I've reeatched the series a few times as an adult cause it's pretty good as well and my general view is....ehhhhhhhh, can't expect much better for the time, pretty sure they were trying to show it as negative cause kids wanna be batman and therefore not the Joker, but also it did have a positive effect on me but that was reinforced already...which makes me feel like they did try with it and teaching kids about how predatory relationships can happen with a softened blow can have its value. So, I'd call.it well intended, badly executed but still worked for me as a kid and the overall idea of soft peddling how to recognize abuse through a cartoon villain isn't the worst idea.
Any examples of scenes from barman tas of Joker being abusive being played for laughs? I'm sure they exist, not trying to challenge that, I'd just like a refresher on examples cause I'm basing most of this on memories.
This was way before villains were supposed to be "the cool guy" who gets all the awesome lines. People unironically cheered for Superman and Captain America back then. Villains used to be just...bad. Bad people who do bad things and suffer a bad end.
I thought the "Joker x Harley is the ideal relationship" thing came from post TAS stuff. Most of it was extremely edgy in a way the TAS stories never were. TAS was kind of a light noir for kids, but then the comics and other media picked up the Harley character and did what everyone was doing with comics in the 90s - Made it cringeworthy edgelord bullshit.
Sorry, I didn't mean to criticize. I'm just thinking back and most of the cringe joker idealization in my very fallible, mushy memory is Jared Leto joker from. Which can't be right bc that was '16. But like up until ~11 Harley was in her jester costume, then in 2011 the Arkham game's put her in various corsets and leather pants. I mostly remember the Harley x Joker as an ideal relationship stuff after darker-and-edgier Harley became popular.
But who knows. This is all memory and my memory isn't any better than most and worse than some.
It's funny, Joker is and probably always will be Mark Hamill in my head. I'll read Jack Nicholson's joker in Jack's voice, and Cesar Romero's in Cesars voice, but anyone who played the character after TAS is Mark Hamill.
True. Mark was still a kid and as much as I love Star Wars Luke isn't the most powerful personality in cinema. But Mark did such an amazing job as Joker the performance stands out decades later.
I legit haven't seen it for a while. And yeah, that's not great. aspirational and immitable I'd give an eh, it's certainly not good but also literally no one wanted to be the Joker back then. There's a different cultural tie with being the Joker pist Dark Knight. It probably shouldn't have been done but I don't really think it had any significant effect on society.
Yes. Cause it did. Abusive creeps existed outside of batman fandom
Did the Joker increase the number of abusive creeps or simply give them a media figure to latch on to? Wouldn't they just pick something else otherwise? Do you think they would be different people if it weren't for batman tas?
Okay, and a lot of people consider Stsrship Triopers a leftist masterpiece. It's almost like there are things other than the media we consume that inform our interpretation Moreno than the media itself.
So does that make Starship Troopers bad and should he have not made it?
Fuck you. I've been genuinely trying to see where you're coming from and you've been patronizing the entire fuckimg time. NOT EVERYONE GETS THE SAME SHIT OUT OF ART AND NO ONE HAS THIS WEIRD FUCKING OBESSION WITH DIDACTICS THAT YOU DO. THIS IS A YOU THING. I can make the same brick wall emoji and frankly I've been trying to be nice and address your arguments and not you as a person, but frankly I find you to be one of the most fucking annoying and obstinate posters with a singular weird focus on culture and how you specifically interpret it.
:wall-talk:
It doesn't have a totallizing brainwash machine direct 1:1 effect on people. Media isn't a adbreakers art piece brainwashing ray. It's a cultural overlay that effects different people differently and in the MACRO SCALE can be manipulative, the cultural stimuli you absorb outside of media has a greater effect on how you absorb media than the content of the media itself. Your observations aren't universal either. Interpretation of art is probably one of the most inrinsinctly individual things there is and that interpretation works in subtle tandem with media's intent whether intentional or not to create an individual perspective.which though unique to everyone contributes to a greater core culture. Cherrypicking this and that which you don't like or hasn't aged well is fairly meaningless without any observation of outside context or that a plurality of people simply didn't take things the way you think they did. It's being incredibly reductive to both media influence and individual human intelligence and awareness of when they're being hocked to. People aren't blank slates who only watch TV and learn from it, we don't live in Platos cave and why people are the way they are demands much more rigorous understanding than what shows they watched.
I didn't say there no effect. I wrote an entire paragraph about the effect. It's not totalizing, and is a small piece.of a great cultural whole, like microbe small. It's not worth a thread every 2 days
I could give a fuck about my entertainment being criticized, this 'you just wanna defend your treats' bullshit is way too easy of a dismissal around here. I'm just looking for good criticism.
They're both anecdotal so there isn't a high ground cause neither of us are basing anything in real data.
Which was aimed at adults and depicted eating bacon as positive. That's not a parallel.
Bacon was associated with masculinity beforehand and they took that and ran with it. My grandfather was epic bacon guy in the 60s. It increased sales but that's because it took a previously existing cultural thing and blew it up. That's the difference, Batman tas was a part of a culture, epic bacon time used that existing kernel and turned it into a franchise. There is a difference there.
Yeah, I said they exploited an already existing kernel and blew it up.
If you want to ignore that, ignore that.
I recall feeling bad for Harley a lot. I don't recall sympathizing with Joker ever, but I do remember rooting for Harley and thinking Joker was a bad guy for how he treated her. This is all fuzzy thirty year old memories, but I remember Joker being genuinely cruel and mean, while Harley was mostly goofy and having fun. Joker was a sadist, Harley just didn't care about breaking the law and occaisionally hurting some people in a stylized cartoon way.
I really like how Harley's character has been developed, though I do miss the old clown suit. I'm sick of the grim dark batman and I'd really like to seem something more whimsical and goofy like the Adam Westbatman, Brave and the Bold animated series, or even just Tim Burton's dark gothic tragicomedy. Just lighten the mood and have some fun with the characters for once. Robbie's Harley Quinn has been a nice break from teh grimderp batman stuf of the last decade and change.
South Park episodes that aren't either really fucking awful or trying to have a point. Thst guinea pig three parter, mecha Streisand, Casa Bonita, Fun Times With Weapons, the show is fucking hilarious when they're just being silly.
The weird romance subplot in They Live. A classic tale of man meets woman, man kidnaps woman at gunpoint, woman falls for man inexplicably because of this????
happens in three days off the condor too, which is an otherwise decent enough but kind of dumb spy movie
Stockholm Syndrome was really big in the news back then, so of course movies had to put it in
What. Wasn't she lying to him the entire time because she was a collaborator?
I wish we had a Pizza the Hut emoji with which to respond to this, but I feel like posting the emoji request would violate the site's conflict of interest policy
Oh no, really? I haven't watched any since I was an actual child...
I love Invincible and it deserves a lot of praise, but characters using "gay" as a pejorative early on was a jarring reminder of how long ago the series started. Thankfully the show has been great at fixing this so far, though there will definitely be more challenges regarding content in the future...
Also mega deep cut but the Dr. McNinja webcomic was tossing out r-slurs left and right early on, but it got better
I think that happens with a lot of media that span the era from the ending of normalized homophobia to the beginning of mainstreamed queer acceptance. It's really obvious with Homestuck, which began as a mirror of late 00s internet culture and is expectably full of casual ableism and homophobia. But then, the fandom that had a large percentage of queer tumblr kids began to call the problematic stuff out and the creator just accepted that criticism and ran with it. So one of the characters, Dave, at some point discovers that one of his alternate universe clones is gay, which leads to Dave questioning and overcoming his own homophobia and calling out the corny homophobic jokes of his friend.
Buffy The Vampire Slayer is based feminist girlboss patriarchy-smashing but only if you're cute, thin and blonde
Basically every 'wholesome' Nintendo game ever
Marios a monarchist
So is Link
Pokemon is about cock fighting
Everything I love is a lie :kitty-cri:
Even non-Nintendo games I like are questionable.
Monster Hunter is about beating the shit out of wildlife.
Mass Effect is about being Space CIA and choosing between lib and slightly less racist lib
Undertale is lib as fuck and sees you forgiving a cop (Undine), and monarchs and a psychopath (Asgore, Asriel and Toriel) if you want the best ending
I guess Dark Souls and Portal aren't problematic as far as I remember... right?
RIGHT?!
dark souls makes a good metaphor for late stage capitalism and communism, especially if you see the age of dark as communism/socialism. also it's heritage is from berserk which is directly inspired by micheal moorcock who is an ancom so that's cool.
portal doesn't have good things to say about megacorps and little else so i think it's good. plenty of anti-capitalist messaging peppered throughout, even if no solution is offered.
I just want to be a cute fairy boi that explores dungeons and bombs dodongos Miyamoto pls take out the fash crap and make a game about forest pixies :kitty-cri-screm:
The reason for the repetition is they think new stories might disrupt the cash cow so they just keep telling the same one every 2-4 years.
And that story is all about how a long-nosed brown person is always the great evil to be overcome by blue-eyed blonde saviors.
lol but Nintendo basically made Ocarina of Time like 5 different ways already.
I wonder if by "innovate" they really mean, "make it earn as much money as zelda".
Pokemon is about cock fighting
Pit fighting. Like Micheal Vick did with all those dogs. You can do it with people, too. That's how UFC got started.
Casablanca - Everyone seems to let Captain Renault off the hook pretty easy after he
CW: SA
is shown to be in the habit of raping refugees who ask him for favors.
Louis, I think this precludes any possibility of a beautiful friendship.
(Rick is disgusted and he does intervene, but it doesn’t seem to make an impression longterm. Renault teases Rick for being a sentimentalist, and that’s about it.)
I read the entire Belgariad cycle when I was a teenager and only found out that David Eddings abused his son LONG after the author was dead. In my defense, I got the books at the library instead of buying them.
The Simpsons is super ageist and it's only when I've gotten older that I've finally noticed lmao
Grandpa was a fucking asshole to Homer as a kid and adult, theyve really lightened up on it in the zombie simpsons era. They're kinda harsh on moleman for no reason though lol.
The first Ranma 1/2 run is adorable and the visuals are gorgeous (it was made by a different studio for the first 18 episodes) but the comedy is Japan boomer and the family is so egregiously abusive.
As a trans kid it will always hold a place in my heart tho.
The only anime movie I own is the original Macross movie and during the finale a female character is in hysterics so a male character slaps her to get her to snap out of it.
Also some sexist stuff about women not being as tough as men despite having an integrated military.
Still nostalgic for me, gorgeous hand drawn animation, but there's a few scenes that make me cringe. Like the obligatory shower scene with a young woman. Just inserted for the boob shot.
1982 was quite a while ago. There's a few silver linings, like an interracial couple that was one of the first black/white pairs in a major anime iirc. In the finale the woman aliens and the man aliens team up to destroy the giant man that's been forcing his male soldiers to fight for 500,000 years. Also a great soundtrack with some fun 80s Japanese pop. Bit of a problematic fave, still. But I grew up with it, and I got a lot of nostalgia for it. Cool dogfights. Transforming robots. Lots and lots of missiles.
I actually saw macross before getting into battletech so the first time I saw a marauder I was like "hey that's a Zentradi officer pod!"
