• Rojo27 [he/him]
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      4 years ago

      Yeah, I give a ton of shit to Western politicians for their distant future plans. This really isn't terribly different. I get its not easy to make these changes, but we're literally out of time. Shits already getting worse.

      • Bedandsofa [he/him]
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 years ago

        We can’t actually plan shit as long as we have capitalist relations dictating what gets produced, and how goods are distributed, according to a suicidal perpetual growth trajectory. Forget avoiding it, under capitalism we can’t even realistically plan to mitigate the fallout of climate change —the mass displacement and migration, the breakdown of supply lines, the mass starvation and lack of water.

        The climate crisis is a crisis of capitalist production, and any meaningful plan to address the crisis will be a plan to get rid of capitalism and win socialism internationally.

        Wouldn’t it be nice to have a little working class political leadership from the self-proclaimed socialist government of the largest nation in the world?

    • acedia
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      5 days ago

      deleted by creator

  • dallasw
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    deleted by creator

    • OgdenTO [he/him]
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      4 years ago

      That is also depressing - that when we're talking about a 5-8 degree Celsius increase, that 0.2-0.3 is literally the best that the most capable country in the world can do -- and it will be fought tooth and nail by global energy interests.

        • OgdenTO [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Exactly what the ghost said. The media reports 1.5-2. that's already locked in. The most up to date data I've seen shows that we are already at about 1-1.5 C above preindustrial levels. Like, right now.

          The actual models are showing our current track puts us towards 5-8C if nothing changes in the way we are using fossil fuels and consumption.

          These also still underestimate the way we're seeing positive feedback mechanisms and tipping points occurring like Antarctic warming, disruption of the ocean currents, and methane release from the permafrost.

          It's very depressing, we need big change.

          • WhatDoYouMeanPodcast [comrade/them]
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            4 years ago

            I think 1.5C is story book catastrophe. 5C is to the Earth what Luke's torpedoes were to the death star. 8C is as incomprehensible as a billionaire's wealth.

            Edit: I might have misspoke, it looks like 1.5C is the target which, while still warm and damaging and causing catastrophe, isn't a storybook horror. I think I heard an off-the-cuff about how bad 3C is.

            • LibsEatPoop [any]
              ·
              edit-2
              4 years ago

              I have such a hard time understanding that but embarrassed to admit it. Could you explain or link to something that goes into why a few degrees matter so much?

              • WhatDoYouMeanPodcast [comrade/them]
                ·
                4 years ago

                https://xkcd.com/1732/

                This is the clearest and most concise I've ever seen it presented. I'll try to find the expert quote I heard about that 1.5C comment, one sec

                • WhatDoYouMeanPodcast [comrade/them]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  Here's a digestable surface level news site talking about the significance of the half degree between 1.5 and 2 extolling the insanity of 5-8

                  https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45678338

          • acedia
            ·
            edit-2
            5 days ago

            deleted by creator

      • LibsEatPoop [any]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Aye can you send some links for 5-8 degree Celsius?

        • OgdenTO [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          I can't find anything right now, I'll look again later, but here's one that suggests a model that would predict 4-5C, and also doesn't take into account many of the feedback loops that are occurring faster than predicted.

      • gammison [none/use name]
        ·
        edit-2
        4 years ago

        It will be fought tooth and nail by the local party too. Coal power use hugely spiked in 2018 onward because the local party officials refused to use imported solar power from western China. They are already doing unneeded production increases as a jobs program. The compartmentalization coastal factories prefer has resulted in hundreds of tiny coal power plants each one going to one or two factories, it's really not good.

        • kristina [she/her]
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          4 years ago

          tbf imported solar power has massive cost effects, there is a huge issue with storing and transferring solar power which is why it is not popular on a countrywide scale. this is why china is building a fuckton of nuclear plants. its a constant, effective source of energy that you can place almost anywhere due to new tech.

          solar does have its uses (re: in a place that is sunny, has no sand, has low wind, and cannot be easily accessed nor a grid built) but it will never be the big player. wind, nuclear, and hydro are gonna be the big players.

          • gammison [none/use name]
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            4 years ago

            Nuclear doesn't look too good either, the Chinese Nuclear Association has continuously lowered expectations and they failed to meet all goals between 2010 and 2020. The only thing that massively ramped up was new coal power plants.

            • kristina [she/her]
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              4 years ago

              whats your source on that? afaik they were trying to increase safety after fukushima and have continued normal production. china is the only country to not have a major incident with nuclear despite high levels of continuous operation. they also work with france which has a similar track record.

              iirc theyre going to be relying heavily on hydro, wind, and nuclear going up to the 2060 mark, with around 25% nuclear projected by 2060 at the current rate. considering how much fucking energy china uses, that is a lot of nuclear plants.

              • gammison [none/use name]
                ·
                4 years ago

                Here's an article on the slowdown from 2017, https://www.neimagazine.com/opinion/opinionnuclear-in-china-why-the-slowdown-5896525/

                I went and checked current construction status and it does not look that different, they did not meet the 2020 targets.

  • CoralMarks [he/him]
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    4 years ago

    Watch western media spin Chinas commitment in some sinister way.

    Maybe something like these:

    Those solar panels, they’re built using slave labor.

    China destroying the natural habitat of sand by reclaiming deserts.

    China is using nuclear power for balancing their CO2 footprint.

      • lvysaur [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        The cells in those solar panels are nearly impossible to recycle.

        pretty much like everything else humanity has shat out

      • kristina [she/her]
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 years ago

        wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang wind and nuclear gang

  • GenderIsOpSec [she/her]
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    4 years ago

    Overheard about this on the radio yesterday, they ended the news with: "Xi didnt tell us how they're going to do it."

    Now I know for a fact that if a western country head would come out and say what Xi said they'd be falling over themselves fellating them but when China comes along nope, you gotta have all the graphs and plans and a pile of reserch ready to show to our western (white) experts so we can denounce it.

    Nothing wrong with scepticism but the white chauvinism is really showing.

  • SirLotsaLocks [he/him]
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    4 years ago

    this image got me dead lol

    https://foreignpolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/GettyImages-186080009.jpg?resize=800,533&quality=90

  • OgdenTO [he/him]
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    4 years ago

    Now all xi needs to do is invade Indonesia and Brazil (and the USA) and save the forests there too.

      • Bread_In_Baltimore [he/him]
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        4 years ago

        Imperialism is when you invade places and the more places you invade the more imperialister it is

        • OgdenTO [he/him]
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          4 years ago

          Exactly, like Canada was imperialisting in France and Europe to fight Nazis in WW2

          • Bread_In_Baltimore [he/him]
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            4 years ago

            Critical Support to Nazi Germany in its struggle against Soviet and Western Imperialism 😔

            • Hungover [he/him]
              ·
              edit-2
              4 years ago

              Didn't Bordiga literally say this?

              Edit:

              Therefore, June 10 (the date of Mussolini's declaration of war) was for me what you call a great day. But now that Hitler has grown soft, I begin to lose the trust I had placed in the Axis to strangle and pull down the so-called British colossus, that is, the greatest exponent of capitalism. They are afraid of bringing down England, they are afraid because they know that with it, the whole capitalist system will collapse. [...] I still hope that Hitler will not renounce the struggle, and will go all the way, to the extreme consequences.

              The great and authentic revolutionaries of the world are two: Mussolini and Hitler. But Mussolini's past shows that Il Duce has always been against the plutocracy and against the democracies, which paralyze the life of nations.

              Stalin, allying himself with London and Washington, has betrayed the cause of the proletariat. Moreover, I can say that on this I agree with Il Duce, when he says, as he did in his speech from last November, that if there is a man who desperately wanted the war, who first prepared it and then instigated it, it is the American president. From my point of view, however, I clarify that Roosevelt is nothing but the exponent of supercapitalism that aims at the conquest of a totalitarian imperialism.

  • GVAGUY3 [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    I feel at this rate we just have to plan ahead for the worst.

  • kristina [she/her]
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    edit-2
    4 years ago

    fyi this coincides with their nuclear roadmap. by 2060, china will have the most nuclear plants in the world by a long shot.

    nuclear gets the goods.

  • abdul [none/use name]
    arrow-down
    42
    ·
    4 years ago

    No, the guy exterminating muslims in his country did not “save the world”.

      • abdul [none/use name]
        arrow-down
        34
        ·
        4 years ago

        People are being tortured and mutilated in concentration camps in China right now but yeah, whatever you need to tell yourself.

        • asaharyev [he/him]
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          4 years ago

          Do you have literally any evidence for this that does not come from Adrian Zenz?

          • abdul [none/use name]
            arrow-down
            29
            ·
            4 years ago

            Let’s address Zenz first since you naively seem to believe him to be the only example. What exactly about his claim (not he himself, but the claims he made using data provided directly by the ccp itself) do you find so hard to believe that you would dismiss any accusation of genocide at all as being a psy-op.

            • Awoo [she/her]
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              4 years ago

              Fill your boots: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d0lynghlCnR6Hs57pypEEhlhHczFVgaYX-TIZD61s_w/edit?ouid=104343924564237344347&usp=docs_home&ths=true

              • abdul [none/use name]
                arrow-down
                22
                ·
                4 years ago

                How about you directly answer my question instead of hiding behind a nonsequitor link like a bitch

                • GottaJiBooUrns [they/them]
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  You asked about Zenz and were given a document that in part discusses Zenz. I don't think that counts as a nonsequitor.

                • Awoo [she/her]
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  How about you show us your dick?

              • abdul [none/use name]
                arrow-down
                10
                ·
                4 years ago

                Cmon this should be a softball! It’s Adrian Zenz! Everyone here hates him so much they don’t care if China is killing thousands of people! If you can’t even address that, what’s the point of taking you seriously?

                • asaharyev [he/him]
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  lmao, literally shut the fuck up, you smooth brained lib

          • abdul [none/use name]
            arrow-down
            10
            ·
            4 years ago

            Why should i whitewash the truth to make sensitive white commie larpers feel better about supporting a hyper capitalist terror state that has the support of every corporation in America

        • lvysaur [he/him]
          ·
          edit-2
          4 years ago

          People are being tortured and mutilated in concentration camps

          FUCK CHINA for creating guantanamo bay

      • abdul [none/use name]
        arrow-down
        21
        ·
        4 years ago

        https://www.reddit.com/r/FreeTheUyghurs/

        There you go. Take your pick.

        • Awoo [she/her]
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          4 years ago

          Stop regurgitating and uncritically consuming unsubstantiated propaganda that has been rejected for investigation by the international courts as "without evidence". Hearsay from a handful of dissidents amplified by thousands and thousands of media rehashes of the same content over and over and over again is not evidence. This is extremely lib.

                • GottaJiBooUrns [they/them]
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  Hands off

                  While I commend your commitment to your Volcel pledge, do you really not understand "post hog?" Can I ask how you found this site?

        • RuthBaderGonesburg [he/him]
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          4 years ago

          Lmao literally the second post on that sub has an image from detention centers in Texas claiming it’s from xinjiang.

          • abdul [none/use name]
            arrow-down
            22
            ·
            4 years ago

            The only comment in that thread is someone from the sub pointing that out as false information. How about you take something thousands of people have been killed over seriously for a little longer than the two seconds it took you to dismiss it completely.

              • abdul [none/use name]
                arrow-down
                11
                ·
                4 years ago

                We do know. Check the sub. Read the accounts. Fight the reflex to resort to ad hominems and consider the stark realities of life in China for these people. If you don’t care, it’s not my job to make you, but it should be clear by now this goes a little farther than Zenz.

              • abdul [none/use name]
                arrow-down
                9
                ·
                4 years ago

                Ad hominem: attacking someones character instead of their argument

                If the only thing you have to say in response to the claims these people are making is stupid greentext nonsense meant to derail and delegitimize discussion because you don’t like who is saying it, then you aren’t taking it seriously and just resorting to ad hominems.

                • sysgen [none/use name,they/them]
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  Only for a very limited definition of argument, which is a logical construct that goes from premises to a conclusion.

                  They're not critiquing the argument, they're critiquing the credibility of the premises, as they require you to trust their source as they are a claim and not evidence.

            • asaharyev [he/him]
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              4 years ago

              uhhhh....*pushes glasses up nose*...that's a logical fallacy....*snorts*....ad hominem, le epically owned