- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@sh.itjust.works
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/1338851
Archived version: https://archive.ph/yDjTx
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230811193345/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-fire-all-regional-military-recruitment-chiefs-zelenskiy-2023-08-11/
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"Boot camp" meaning some dumbass NATO instructor showing you how to kick open doors and do counter-insurgency for 2 weeks before being sent off to run into a minefield
True, they were barely in Ukraine for a week before their own lack of opsec invited a rain of cruise missiles down on them
I mean there are literally videos of Ukrainian men being kidnapped so they can be conscripted into the military. The user you are replying to is clearly making a dark joke about that.
I think the lemmee user was making a joke about how such a kidnapper could be called "fuckass" or some other derisive name.
Two countries at war. One is the aggressor and other is the victim of aggression. But of course hexbear.net comrades would want the victim country to act all up to standard, and ignore how the aggressor country is doing its own military recruitment.
The confederacy also considered themselves to be the victims of a war of aggression, in fact some schools in the south still teach the civil war as the "war of northern aggression" even though they started that shit
Nazis are never the victims, if anyone attacks them first it's just self defense
I'm just a smol bean Ukwaine UwU pwease don't agress on me 🥺. Don't look at what I'm doing to the Donetsk, Luhansk, or Roma they're just subhumans.
the aggressor country is doing its own military recruitment.
Conscripting prisoners and shit is also abhorrent. We shouldn't have to say it anytime we criticize what Ukraine is doing though. Especially since what Ukraine is doing is the subject of the fucking thread.
I think they know quite well how it works, and hexbear. Hence the comment.
If they understood it then either they are a conspiracy theorist or they wouldn't call it a "brigade"
This is just a silly "no u". We're federated, not defederated, so one is relevant and not the other at the moment.
Lemmy dot world is always there if you want an instance that defederates from leftists and federates with your "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" types.
Hexbear has been using Lemmy for years, technical issues around our active user count and having to rely on volunteer labour means we were only able to federate recently.
Defend genocide? Please elaborate. We definitely do not support the NATO led genocides of the third world
Then go make your own private instance where you can federate with whoever you want and keep the mean old tankies out
mean old tankies out
Mask off already? Damn, that's kind of against the rules
What mask? I'm an ML and have never claimed otherwise on this account or its alts on any instance.
And being an ML isn't against the rules, so don't bog down our dear admins with superfluous reports.
"Tankies are bad."
Do you believe that that because you genuinely believe that capitalist nations like the United States and Russia are doing good things for the world, while "tankie" countries like Cuba and China are doing bad things for the world? Or do you believe that because you have been tricked by 100 years of racist propaganda that says socialists like Fidel Castro, Albert Einstein, and Martin Luther King were subhuman scum?
lmao How many times has that worked on anyone, honestly? Like I'm just gonna wake up one day and say, "yeah, you know what, my entire worldview has been shattered by @KurtVonnegut@hexbear.net whispering sweet commie propaganda in my ear"
Idk why you are all on stuck on the tankie shit like it matters that much to me. Like I said previously, I don't have a problem with the Christians for being Christian, but just like you tankies, the fandom is weird, intense and circlejerky af
IDK man. You're basically saying "Why are you stuck on that environmentalist shit? It doesn't matter to me. Go worry about climate change somewhere else, stop bothering me."
My brother in christ. Climate change will affect you whether you want it to or not. Capitalism will affect you whether you want it to or not. You can't just be "out" of it. You can't not take a side in whether the earth gets destroyed or not (environmentalism) or whether 90% of the world's population is plunged into neo-feudal slavery. You're either with the slave-owners or against them. You gotta pick a side!
Known capitalist evil practices do not absolve tankies of wanting to impose communism by force.
You use the term "racist propaganda" interchangeably as anti-socialist propaganda...as if the only victims of capitalism were the victims of racism.
Who calls MLK and Einstein scum? Maybe Fidel was called that by right-wingers during the Cold War. Why did you mix and match those 3? Why not Emma Goldman or Gorbachev, if you're just naming random socialists (I'm not even sure MLK ever explicitly considered himself a socialist).
I'm not even sure MLK ever explicitly considered himself a socialist.
Well then.
"I am much more socialistic in my economic theory than capitalistic." - Martin Luther King Jr.
"Today, capitalism has out-lived its usefulness." - Martin Luther King Jr.
"Call it democracy, or call it democratic socialism, but there must be a better distribution of wealth within this country." - Martin Luther King Jr.
"We must see now that the evils of racism, economic exploitation and militarism are all tied together." - Martin Luther King Jr.
"The evils of capitalism are as real as the evils of militarism and evils of racism." - Martin Luther King Jr.
"If America does not use her vast resources of wealth to end poverty and make it possible for all of God's children to have the basic necessities of life, she too will go to hell." - Martin Luther King Jr.
(from https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/01/21/11-most-anti-capitalist-quotes-martin-luther-king-jr)
It says a lot about the education system wherever you come from that you never learned MLK was a socialist. He HATED capitalism! Hated it! Also, the scientist Albert Einstein was a prominent socialist who wrote a famous article, "Why socialism?" explaining in detail why he was a socialist. Einstein and MLK believed in the same anti-capitalist struggle. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Socialism%3F
ok he walked off and the tanks kept going? what are you saying? have you even seen the whole video
- Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
- No NSFW content
- No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
is the "no tankie" rule in the room with us right now?
You don't say! I would've been clueless like walking into a room full of vegans
This site is significantly vegan to the point where there is cw on pics of food from animals.
on behalf of their community
Oh sure 😂
The mods of Lemmy.ml sure as heck didn’t misread hexbear before federating with us
They sure as hell aren't gonna misread the comment sections now
What's hilarious is that you think your mods are on your side in this fight. Why did you think they invited us here?
You've been here for two months. You don't know what the history of the website is. You don't know the character of its administrators. I've got a secret for you: they're leftists like us. In fact the whole lemmyverse was created by Marxist-Lenninists. This must be the very first time you've ventured out of your information bubble. Welcome. We're going to bully the shit out of you until you can behave amicably. Did you think you could just show up to someone else's community and start acting like you owned the place? There will be no eternal september here.
Then fucking check yourself, liberal. When you abuse the word 'genocide' you diminish it. You are doing the work of the nazis in making what they did (and this is what the westerner thinks of when they use the word genocide) seem no worse than the things you apply the label to in your cynicism or ignorance. And this was their literal strategy. Google "the double holocaust myth". When they were still in uniform they applied this strategy to the USSR (which could be one of the examples you're vagueposting at me over). You will find, if you dig into that search, documentation by Jewish hate watch groups to that effect.
I fucking mind genocide denial as much as you pretend to. So knock it the fuck off.
And go fuck yourself for calling me that.
Most people on lemmy came here because they didn’t like the way reddit was moderated
Duh, and somehow irrelevant, but nice try
I'm not gonna let some scumbag tell me to leave. Federating with you all has made this site worse and we'll see how well this goes. This is not a "me" problem, but a "you bunch of scumbags" problem.
"Scumbag"= "Anyone who is opposed to me, the main character of reality"
Wandering into a communist website and refusing to leave lmao have fun baby
You got me there! I admit that I absolutely did not read that stupid AMA
" 😂" does not fool anyone in the year 2023, everyone knows "😂" means
Imagine emojis having different meanings outside your circlejerk. It's hard to imagine the world outside, huh
Someone who can will in a minute, if y'all keep this up. I'm not worried.
Umm, I don't think you realize how the fediverse has panned out in the last year, but go off with your lame attempts at an insult
Umm, I don't think you realize
Holy shit I didn't believe people like you were real
Damn, the threshold for responding with your teenage dreams as an emote keeps getting lower and lower. You wish I was that upset lol
Brigading is whenever a Hexbear user uses the site like literally everybody else that got here.
Never heard of hexbear but why does an instance that claims to be leftist use Trump memes and back Russia?
Trump is funny. Obviously. Terrible but hilarious. We don't back Russia we just understand NATO to generally be far more destructive and deadly. That's just old Tom Bombadilaros thoughts.
That's so dumb... To consider a defensive alliance more destructive and deadly that a corrupt state waging a war of expansion
A defence of what? The people who invented global warming? Nah, hard pass.
Sure it's defensive, I just wish the people it's defending were attacked more
A Defensive alliance made up of all the great colonial powers.
Defensive alliance that bombs every third world country that dares to go against the interests of the imperial core? Who are they "defending again?
Also how much has NATO expanded since the end of the cold war with its mafia protection racket style tactics in Europe?
defensive alliance
NATO is defensive? lol, lmao
a corrupt state
That's Ukraine, it used to be considered the most corrupt place in Europe by the Western media right until February 2022
waging a war of expansion
That's also Ukraine since they're trying to take territory from the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics after they declared independence following the coup against Viktor Yanukovych in 2014
"That's so dumb, to consider a defensive alliance with the Serbian Black Hand more destructive and deadly than the Central Power's Imperialism waging a war of expansion" -Average Allied Nations Second International Member, 1914
Serbia, Libya, and Afghanistan were all defensive operations.
this is why we support Russia (Donbass to be Precise ) , this is also why Propagnda does not only happens to "other people" Mr. @Revanee@lemmy.one
Show
Show
Show
Show
A military alliance of several superpower nations VS one angry revanchist state. Who's more dangerous?
Russia - starts wars and threatens nuclear holocaust - you sleep
NATO - literally just exists - you wake
Russia's #1 export is troll farms and that's why Russia is the most hated country in the world. Y'all just give people more reason to hate Russia.
NATO - literally just exists - you wake
How many millions of civilians were murdered/killed/starved/driven from their homes/displaced by American and NATO led imperialist wars such as the bombing of Yugoslavia, the invasion of Afghanistan, the bombing of Libya, or Isr*el's genocidal occupation of Palestine, which is proudly supported by the US and NATO?
You honestly think less civilians were killed in all those things COMBINED than by Russia? Really? That's actually one of the most wild liberal claims I've ever seen, and thats saying something. You've lost attachment to reality.
You ignorant gnome. We hate Russsia more than you. Russia is the liberal democratic nation built by the US from the corpse of our comunist forebears. I'd ask if you ever read a history book but your Midwest tag proves the only ones you got were written by Haliburton so it isn't your fault you are the way you are. If I wver visit your region I must try to trap you I in a circle of salt and force you to actually read some theory.
Literally just existing, chilling, sprinkling unexploded cluster bombs throughout the country side for Ukrainian children to step on for generations to come, vibing.
dog how can you be this clueless about NATO and still have such a strong opinion lmao
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/1052756
the idea of NATO "just existing" is a straight up rejection of history
NATO - literally just exists
HOLLLLLYYYY FUCCCKKKIIIINNNNGGG SHIIIIIIIITTTTTT
We also use Hillary Clinton and Biden memes, doesn't mean we support them lmao.
Ever heard of this thing called "irony"? Might be worth checking out
Because Russia is the same as America in pretty much every way. So it is fascist infighting. Trump is also the same as pretty much the same as every other president. Liberals just hate him for idiosyncratic reasons. So it is funny
Russia is America's every bad quality dialed up to 12 on steroids. Russia actually manages to make America look good, that's just what a steaming pile of garbage Russia is. The bar is so low even America can get over it.
NATO - starts wars and keeps the meat grinder rolling all in the furtherance of capitalist dogma - you sleep
Russia - literally just exists - you wake
NATO’s #1 export is war and that's why NATO is hated around the world. Y'all just give people more reason to hate NATO.
Russia starting a war with 350,000 casualties and threatening to nuke the West is not literally just existing. If Russia wanted to literally just exist, they never would have literally invaded another country while lying about "training exercises".
You're pro-Russian terrorism, it's not a good look.
NATO encircled a world power and for the last couple decades have worked to instigate a war that has led to the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people on the gamble that Russia would fall and allow the west to loot the country, exactly as they plan to loot a war torn Ukraine. For capitalism.
You’re pro-NATO terrorism, it’s not a good look.
federation isn't brigading. a post shows up in our feeds, we click on it and comment because helping people dodge the draft is cool and good. We're one of the largest instances, and the consensus we have on issues like "conscription is bad" should not be taken as coordination on the part of hexbear users. If we did deliberately coordinate we'd all link you clowns to the thread where we did it because it would be funny.
Brigading is when a post shows up in your all tab and you comment on it
Propaganda is when you say the same thing Reuters, CNN, WSJ, etc are all saying about draft corruption in Ukraine lol
Actually mediabiasfactcheck.org says that Reuters is highly objective!
I'm just here to laugh at bazinga dorks crying for mods
Every wonder why this kind of liberal belief never just naturally develops in new communities like ours? Notice how they always have to insert themselves from outside and takeover modding to have any relevance? Yeah, that.
Idk if "commenting on a post from another instance that showed up in my feed because the instance I use is federated with that instance" is brigading.
No you dont understand, if I dont want you here then youre a PEST whose ATTACKING ME so you need to leave, mkay?
Very cool that the moment someone says "brigading" I can look at their profile and see, yup they joined in June. Wonder why that is 🤔
The wild canuck rages, for it has no values or culture to share
If you're so eager to defend a military conscription/draft, why don't you go and fight on the frontline yourself? This whole article is about Zelenskyy cracking down on Ukrainian citizens avoiding the conscription because they don't want to be sent into the meat grinder that is the heavily fortified front lines.
It's always those that face the least consequences from war that are the most eager for it to continue.
Oh man, that brings me back to the days when r/cth used to brigade other subs. Those were the times.
Never thought I'd live long enough to see it again...
The best part was that it was always just the fact we were all terminally online and saw the same frontpage threads as everyone else. It was (almost) never an actual brigade, just the result of having a bunch of very active posters with better politics than the average redditor. That's all it took to make the worst people on reddit
over being unable to consistently silence people with better opinions than their own.
I just looked, and I think it'd be more accurate to call it a Neo-Bolshevik cesspit.
I know. They like to spread dangerous misinformation that helps Russia and Trump take over the world. It sucks. I wish we had an instance just for us anti-authoritarians.
Hexbear users rushing to bombard this comment with image reactions to say they're not brigading
You act like whining about other people being on the same website as you isn't incredibly toxic behavior that deserves to be bullied.
Hexbear has been on Lemmy longer than 99% of instances. Unfortunately we were only able to enable federation recently due to technical issues.
So how are hexbear users the brigaders? Using your logic, you are the brigaders lol.
I play "count the fallacies" with the comments. So far I've seen: ad homonim; what-about-ism; strawman ; appeal to popularity ; appeal to authority ; hasty generalization / ecological fallacy
I get bored well before I stop counting
God y'all really can't help yourself with the debatelord shit huh?
Lol I don't even bother with reading anything they say at all. I just block anyone who's on Hexbear, I must have half the instance blocked. And my experience browsing Lemmy has been so much better for it!
GOD i hate these STUPID hexbears SO much it makes my SKIN crawl... Sure hope they're not reading this thread and brigading you.. Eek!
“Everyone knows that the left and the right are the same and that the REASONABLE MODERATE CENTER is best! Right? Right? It’s not as though Biden is a war criminal rapist segregationist and virtually the twin brother of Trump, right? America might have some problems (ongoing slavery, genocide, imperialism, civilizational suicide via climate change) but it’s still overall a force for good, right????”
I’ve got friends who were trained by greenpeace to climb nuclear power plants
lol what
the marxist party in my country in Europe
I’m frightened to ask about what their positions are on any policy at all. Let me guess: do what amerikkka says or your are helping putler. That kind of “marxist”?
“I reject them both” = i luv amerikkka
It’s really amazing. “I reject them both, but very curiously I only criticize one. Why could that be?“🤔
I get that you guys love seeing trump do stupid shit and abuse his power as president, because it vindicates your view of the US government, but still, the asshole that tells his fans to harass people and shits on rule of law is objectively worse than the ones who didn't, please. I thought one of hexbear's redeeming qualities was at least anti-homophobia, anti-misogyny, etc. This whole "trump is no worse than anyone else" is just crypto-trumpism and one example of why you guys are accused of being the lefty version of MAGAts.
Roe v. Wade was undone and LGBTQ+ rights are collapsing with Biden and the Democrats running the country. Biden also regularly sends the police to deport and/or imprison anyone who isn’t white. Nobody loves or funds the 100% nazi police more than Biden; Biden has actually signed MORE drilling permits than Trump. Biden and Trump are fascists, as are you for excusing them.
Ironically they support Russia, the bastion of leftism
Hexbear User here: where did you see people claim Putin's Russia being a bastion of leftism?
My minority, lgbtqia+, suffers daily in Russia
I'm going to let someone more educated on the geopolitics involved handle the rest of this (hopefully someone will) but i really want to zero in on this because.
there are like, 2 cishet people on all of Hexbear. Its like the most queer space on the internet thats not explicitly only for queer people.. It is AGRESSIVLY pro-trans, and purged the slightest hints of transphobia in its early days. The admin team is 100% queer i'm pretty sure.
We think the oppression of queer people in Russia is bad. Whatever support an individual Hexbear has for Russia, its not for Putin's regime or the Russian government. It is, as you yourself say, opposition to NATO. Again, I'm not going to get into the why of that, but please don't imply that we support the Russian government's oppression of queer people.
What do you think critical support means?
It's unironically the unsafest safe space I've ever encountered.
If that's really true, you may well be the most sheltered person on earth.
Sounds like someone else has already explained the critical support thing to you, I didnt really understand the term at first either and English IS my first language, so I actually understand this one.
I hope you can see that my comrade's defensive stance is because of past experiances and not anything personal.
I actually dont disagree that people here sometimes make unfair assumptions about the person they're talking to. I remember the human and understand where they're coming from and why that assume that though (past experiences with people who are like that). I wish my friends would try to remember the human more too, but I get why they can forget because of their experiences. I hope that makes sense.
I've been interacting with them recently to see what they are all about and lmao I don't think I've ever had a dumber discussion in my life. Truly they are uniquely stupid.
"Opposing military conscription is stupid" and other hot takes from westerners that have never had to fight a war at home.
How is it stupid to oppose Zelenskyy's suicidal conscription polices? It makes Russia's mobilisation/conscription look pacifist by comparison.
If you pop into that users history, you'll see that the interacting they're talking about is whining at me for a couple of days because I called them a racist.
Not really. You just use the word 'racist' as a general insult to people who disagree with you. I don't really take it as an offense since it means nothing in that context, but using the word 'racist' ignoring its actual meaning is problematic.
How do you not understand how using a racial slur to insult someone is racist?
There is a history of mongrel being used as a racial slur, you chose to ignore the evidence of that I showed you so you could pretend to be a victim.
Negotiations? It's clear after the attempt at a "counter offensive" that Ukraine do not have the ability to gain any significant territory, and they are just throwing lives and equipment into a void of mines and trenches. And Ukraine is not going to gain the ability to break though these fortifications anytime soon, I cannot see western nations giving Ukraine the weaponry required (an air force is the main missing component needed for NATO style combined arms tactics to function).
Unless Ukraine can find a way to convince western nations to give them the equipment required to make breakthroughs (very unlikely), they are stuck in an attrition war with Russia. And I don't see any path to victory in an attrition war against Russia. The article we are commenting on is one of the major reasons why, they're having to fire people just to get more conscripts. At that point, negotiation is the best possible outcome.
Surrender. War crimes tribunals. Re-education. The rebirth of the USSR. We aren’t asking for much.
The same will happen one day in the USA, just like in China and Vietnam 😉
Comparing Hilter to Putin is tantamount to holocaust denial.
Putin is a bad man but they aren't anywhere near to the same level.
Tell me one thing Hitlers regime did that Putins regime hasn't done
The Holocaust.
Russians are almost just like (thankfully) dumb
Generalizing Russians and instead of Putin's regime AND calling them stupid. Not racist at all.
imagine being a grown ass adult and taking the time to write this comment
My cats have learned the wirr motor sound of the feeder means food. So they'll run from whereever in the house at an motor sound. Suddenly like "it's food time right? Right? But the noise means food...." Regardless of any further context.
Same same but different with hexbear.
That's not a good sign for Ukraine in what is an attrition war. Even their own military is making plans to smuggle their men out if the country because they don't want to send them to the death trap that is the heavily reinforced WW1 like frontlines. And Zelensky's response is just to fire and try replace the people doing that, instead of looking as to why that is happening. If the counter offensive tactics are so dire that your own military is doing corruption to avoid sending men to the front, maybe that needs reassessment.
Zelenskiy said a state investigation into centres across Ukraine had exposed abuses by officials ranging from illegal enrichment to transporting draft-eligible men across the border despite a wartime ban on them leaving the country.
I don't think you're necessarily wrong, and I'm certainly no expert. However, I do know that Ukraine has long struggled with corruption, and has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades. And they will always have (there are always, in any conflict) a certain level of partisanship in their own ranks.
I've been mildly concerned about what could happen after the invasion; assuming Ukraine is successful, Zelenskyy's popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship. However, so far I've seen little to indicate that he's anything other than a sincere, effective, and passionate leader -- I like the guy, and I'm inclined to trust his judgement. He's done unexpectedly well so far, and Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.
Maybe Ukraine leadership is making a mistake, but maybe they know something us armchair Generals don't.
Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.
I agree with this sentence but I think we have very different ideas of what the "ethical ideals of the EU" are.
Do you think they're different than the ones codified in Article 2?
Article 2 - Right to life
- Everyone has the right to life
Except those Russian orcs
- No one shall be condemned to the death penalty, or executed.
Sending conscripts to into the front lines instead of seeking a diplomatic solution is quite literally a death penalty
if you ukraine were to win the war (and they won't) whatever remains of their economy is going to be crippled by its accumulating debts. a lot of the 'aid' they've received—from the 'highly ethical' EU among others—consists of loans that are to be paid back in full and with interest.
and we already know what the cost of these foreign ''aid'' packages are; privatization (already well under way—ukraine even has their own website); austerity; lower wages; poorer working condition; a crackdown on labor rights and organizing (like banning left-wing parties in your country, which zelensky has already done), etc.
their economy is going to be crippled by its accumulating debts.
But Zelenskyy told me that Ukraine was going to reach a 1 trillion GDP in 10 years by deregulating, selling off public assets, and reforming social programmes. Are you really suggesting he would lie like that?
GDP is just a measurement of money exchanging hands, so I don't doubt that Zelensky, a man in the Pandora papers for money laundering could figure out a way to get their GDP to a trillion.
Ukraine under his leadership has been acting up to the highest ethical ideals of the EU.
Doesn't seem very ethical to me to ban your opposition parties for being left wing.
has been making slow progress over the past couple of decades
Zelensky was literally in the Pandora Papers lmao
No?
https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/10/4/chinese-politician-in-pandora-papers-looked-to-trade-us-stocks
China’s only politician to be named in a sprawling investigation of millions of confidential financial documents known as the Pandora Papers is a female entrepreneur who the report says set up an offshore firm to trade U.S. stocks.
It's overly amplified by liberal propagandists, but there's at least enough of a connection to make a note of
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35962326
"Relatives" is a very purposely vague term to use
I have so many relatives that I've never met or only met less than 3 times
If the connections were close relatives even to first degree cousins, they would've said so
For a parallel the libs can understand: all other allegations aside, it's extremely clear that Hunter Biden wouldn't have been on the board of a Ukrainian gas company in the first place if his last name wasn't Biden.
You don't see his pandering to the EU as stumbling backwards into this whole situation in the first place?
I understand that it comes across as provocative, but from what I understand about his (attempted) maneuvering over the past couple years, he's kind of a spineless and weak leader who trusted the wrong side and got his country embroiled in a massive conflict.
NATO and the US are not trustworthy allies, and they let him talk up "Ukraine joining NATO ", a very dangerous thing to do, but I don't believe they had any intention of letting them in at any point. Zelensky should have understood this.
Ukraine is fucked. As others have pointed out, western vultures are already carving it up via mass privatization (though they may be disappointed with what’s left when the war is over). The “counteroffensive” went nowhere and whether Russia marches all the way to Odessa is really just a question of if they want to at this point. The war was lost before it started and Ukraine will be lucky if it doesn’t get annexed to pieces by Poland et al in the coming months. Best case it keeps some manner of territorial integrity and limps along as a failed state. Not sure Zelensky deserves all the blame for this disaster, as the wheels were in motion at least as early as 2014, but they definitely bet on the wrong horse here.
Are you comparing a fictional character in a fictional story to a person performing IRL? You're judging his performance in this crisis by hia previous career? Which careers pass your "ok to be voted into presidency" test?
A question, do you truly think the Netherlands or Denmark would honestly let Ukraine join the EU? When they are already moaning about Romania and Bulgaria? Its a pipedream to sell Ukrainians on copium.
The people moaning about people from Romania and Bulgaria are neither the ones profiting from their cheap labour here nor are they who calls the shots on the matter
I don't know. The EU has been having a bit of a crisis, with candidates from several member states floating the idea of their own Brexits, financial struggles, and bad faith actors. I would hope that if Ukraine met the conditions for membership, then yes. It had been doing pretty well, financially and rule-of-law -wise; maybe not perfect, but steadily improving.
I was surprised by Trump, by Brexit, by the political successes of far-right politicians (Rachele Mussolonis) across Europe. I have no idea which way any of these countries will break.
Zelenskyy’s popularity could make it easy for him to transition into a dictatorship
Yes and no. His poll numbers surged from about 30% to 88% after the invasion but Ukrainians want a EU path and Dictator Zelenzkyy would be in the way of that. He could certainly win another term in a landslide and do a de Gaulle but I kinda doubt he's even interested in that, he certainly wasn't terribly ecstatic about it before the war and with how things are looking martial law is going to continue past the election date, that is, there's going to be no elections. Meaning that at the end of it all there's going to be a Zelenskyy who's first going to take a vacation, and then do another season of servant of the people. Opening scene: Goloborodko wins the elections against the incumbent, a comedian who saved the nation from calamity due to sheer stupid luck (something about an asteroid if I remember my season 1 right). Finally, someone with proper qualifications in office again, a history teacher!
Drafts should be considered a war crime against your own people. If you can't defend your country without a draft, it doesn't deserve to be defended because there are obviously not enough people willing to fight for it. Turning your citizens into slaves and sending them into the meat grinder makes you a monster.
Making education so expensive that the only way for some to pursue education is to die for their country is a crime. If majority of your citizen view being part of army is only for poor people, your country does not deserve to be protected because obviously not enough people willing to fight for it. Turning your citizens into slaves and sending them into the meat grinder makes you a monster.
You're right, but the economy forcing people into wage slavery is a separate issue that also needs to be addressed.
The problem is that it isn't a separate issue, it's the same body (Congress, with WH support) that imposes these problems and then offers "solutions" to the impacted population in exchange for acting as a jackbooted thug overseas.
I'm not sure there are no situations in which draft's are permissible. If we were in a socialist society and a fascist government invades and I were Commissar of War you bet your ass the ex-bourgeois are getting drafted.
I see your point, but that's a topic that should be up for discussion among your hypothetical Party/legislature. I don't think it has a clear answer.
100% agree. Me presenting it as a choice by a single Commissar for War is more tongue-in-cheek. The answer whether or we should do it is contextual but my point is that there are clear cases which I can imagine in which drafting would be clearly justified, even if of only certain groups.
But responding to a question of whether or not we should do something by saying it would be decided democratically is evading the actual question of what you would put forward or support as appropriate policy in such a scenario. If everyone one responded that way then nothing would be decided.
I'm really not convinced that they would normally prefer to fight fascists on the front lines than to stay in a gulag, uncomfortable as the latter might be.
draft is precisly because of that necessary , its put a general price on "Imperial adventure" while proffessional army will recruit itself from the lower classes and can be spend easly (they choose soo ) , its a bad as its forces the underprivledge to die for an empire whos fruits the privledge eat , while avoiding the blood...
The elites will just dodge the draft anyway. At least without a draft, a sufficiently unpopular war is more likely to be shut down by people refusing to enlist. Also, you can't advocate for slavery by arguing that it solves some other problem.
Volunteer service means wars are waged outside of public consciousness now. The Afghanistan war went on for 20 years and was essentially invisible to most people in the US. The Fed openly trying to increase unemployment is at least partially motivated by the military recruitment issues going on right now. Volunteer wars are fueled by the lives of desperate poor people.
I don't have a strong opinion on the matter (nor do I support the draft in the sense of furthering imperial interests) but one effect of a draft is that it creates a class of anti-war, trained veterans both on the battlefield and at home. Which is pretty dangerous to institutional power structures if that demographic can't be kept satiated.
Wouldn't go as far to say the draft should be re-instituted in the US or that it's a good thing. just an interesting side effect of it sometimes
A bit fascist to assume that the only way to contribute to society is military service.
Dude "You should have to provide service to the abstract idea that is 'the nation' in order to get your human rights" is just fascism, no matter how you try to spin it.
To be protected by that country yes.
See how long you get to have your rights when you stop paying taxes or ignore the laws of the state
starship troopers the movie was a literal send-up of fascism and you are sitting here arguing that we should do fascism so absurd it is the realm of actual parody
or you're advocating for the book's straight up fascism. either way, you should eat a bullet, nazi.
Absolute state of the world that the view that people should defend their country is facism. I'm sure the allies didn't see themselves as fascist in WW2
The allies didn't have a 'service guarantees citizenship' model, dipshit.
You don't think the allies out people in jail for not helping with the war effort?
Right tell me how every example of "you need to do something for your country to get citizenship" is fascism? Plenty have people have argued that you need to be educated to vote or to have land to vote or whatever. They are shit systems yes but they aren't fascism.
You're just using an over used internet buzzword. It's going to lose all meaning eventually.
They are shit systems yes but they aren't fascism.
Yes they are
yeah uh, nationalism is usually bad. imagine fucking dying for lines on a map. Imagine killing for them.
Yea what the Russians are doing is fucked. People just trying to live their lives and they come in and start killing and controlling.
was just minding its own business the same way Germany was in the 1930's 
lol yeah bud history started the day putin ordered the invasion and nothing happened between then and oh i don't know, 2014
If you hate people leeching off the government, just wait until you hear about every single CEO and "Captain of Industry".
No you don't understand this actually means they're winning even harder putler St Petersburg slava unazi
Because they don't need any more recruits, right?
Because they don't need any more recruits, right?
I hope to God they get sent to the very fucking front. Every last one of them. It made me sick watching videos of these cowards kidnapping men on the streets, beating the shit out of them, then forcing them into the army while taking bribes from rich people to leave them alone. Then to watch videos of those brand new recruits getting obliterated in bradleys and MRAPS by artillery.
I seriously hope each of these fucking murderers steps on a land mine or gets their air and life ripped out of their lungs by a thermobaric rocket.
?
we all love biden and our liberal queen hillary clinton, light itself 
