Depending on how the next four years go I'm on the fence between Bush Jr. and Trump but I'd like to hear from you
Edit:
Top 10 suggestions so far (unordered):
- Andrew Jackson
- Andrew Johnson
- George W. Bush Jr
- Ronald Reagan
- Richard Nixon
- James K. Polk
- Woodrow Wilson
- James Buchanan
- Franklin Pierce
- Donald J. Trump
What's wrong, snowflake, are you triggered by this conversation? Don't worry, if his cabinet succeeds in their plans to eliminate vaccines and shut down life-saving agencies such as NWS, you'll get to see genocide at home. And even though he hasn't eliminated the department of education yet, there's a chance you may already be one of the victims of the conservative agenda.
Trump's not even bad by republican standards, he's just vulgar and baffoonish. Replace him with Jeb! or Ron DeSantis or your garden variety Republican and you'd get the same defunding, same deregulation and same enshittification as him, just more subtle.
Come back when he's killed a million Iraqi civilians over fictional WMDs or getting several million people addicted then dead over opioids by deregulating prescription.
He didn't commit war crimes in Vietnam, spill over to Laos and Cambodia. Come back when he pardons the perpetrators of My Lai. Come back when he interns Japanese and nukes civilians. Come back when he Manifests Destiny.
Top 5 my ass
im not even amerikkkan lol get a life you weird loser?
You have grossly misread the intent of that comment, chief. She's saying that putting Trump in top 5 worst (atm) downplays America's historical atrocities such as invading Vietnam, killing 20% of the population of North Korea, Iraq war, Afghanistan war, etc
Sorry, I wasn't looking at it in terms of just the senseless loss of lives, but also how much damage was being done at home. Yeah there's a lot of hard lines there to cross but Trump has made a policy of tearing the nation apart instead of trying to bring people together, and that weighs a lot to me.
If it's about domestic damage, then every president who owned slaves or supported segregation still beats him.
E: Also every president who was involved in the genocide of the indigenous peoples of America to an extent more than Trump (IE he probably ties Biden and Obama on this).
In addition to what everyone else has said to point out how absurd it is to put Trump in the top 5 worst presidents, there's also the fact that almost every significant Trump policy was continued or worsened by Biden. Even the ones that democrats pretended to care about when it suited their agenda like kids in cages, building the wall, and increasing fossil fuel extraction. So if you want to talk about all the ways Trump is an evil piece of shit (which he most certainly is) to put him in the top 5 worst, then you had better make sure Biden is even higher on that list.
uh lets see,
- Andrew Jackson
- Harry S. Truman
- William McKinley
- George W. Bush
- Woodrow Wilson
pretty easy if you actually read a book
I'm still on the fence about W. just because he didn't really do anything on his own, he just took the excuse to continue his daddy's war. I think if Sr. had gotten another term in office he would have ramped things up, but either way I think the family as a whole pushes up there on the list.
For the rest of the list... yeah it's not hard to find a lot of presidents who have killed a lot of people. However the original question was about the worst president overall, which to me includes the damages done here at home. Trump is high on my list simply because of how far back he has set us in terms of equal rights, moving beyond the pettiness of racism, dealing with important things like the unfolding climate disaster, and his nonchalant attitude that Palestine and Ukraine need to just surrender because being in the news cycle is inconvenient to him. Looking at Trump's agenda of just how much he wants to destroy things here, I find it concerning that the only thing stopping him is a few Republicans that still have a moral compass.
Republicans that still have a moral compass
Lib status confirmed. They don't have a moral compass lmao they just don't like him saying the quiet part out loud
I'm still on the fence about W.
Don't worry, if his cabinet succeeds in their plans to eliminate vaccines and shut down life-saving agencies such as NWS, you'll get to see genocide at home.
So it's ok when it's happening to the browns? Fucking racist shit heel, liberals are all the same under whatever facade they're mouthing off about.
Do they? I wouldn't know, the only racists I've ever met were conservatives. Dems at least try to pass laws beneficial to everyone and not just rich white folks. But Liberals? No clue, I don't pay much attention to them.
Dems, you mean the ones that were willing to throw immigrants in the trash and give Republicans everything they wanted wrt the border so they could fund a war directly leading to ww3? The ones also willing to throw as much money as possible and ignore the most popular position in their own constituency (permanent ceasefire) to allow Israel to keep killing Palestinians? The ones that intentionally barred Palestinians from speaking at their conventions? The ones that immediately turned to blaming Muslims, Mexican immigrants, and black people when they lost the election? OH YEAH THEY DEFINITELY TRY FUCKING MORON
his nonchalant attitude that Palestine and Ukraine need to just surrender because being in the news cycle is inconvenient to him.
Motivations aside, if he really does want Ukraine to "just surrender" (which remains to be seen beyond rhetoric) then it's one of the only good positions he has. Ukraine 100% needs to surrender. Absolutely nothing good comes from it continuing to fight. It only means more death and emisseration of working people and more profits for the military industrial complex. It's honestly rather repulsive when people lump Palestine and Ukraine together like that as if they're even remotely the same thing. One is fighting a deeply asymmetric struggle of survival against their own genocide by a settler colonial ethnostate that seeks to eradicate them from the earth, the other is a nazi coup government fighting a proxy war for imperialists that uses their own working class as cannon fodder in a conflict that could have been resolved years ago with no loss of life.
I agree there have been (way) worse presidents than pre 2nd term Trump but he has a lot of potential.
I'd probably say someone like Andrew Jackson before even thinking about Trump being the worst. Jackson did a literal genocide with the Indian Removal Act
Touché. His first term wasn't that horrible (although it wasn't good either). I'm still mad they organised a meeting with Kim just to tell him to go fuck himself. That character development could become spicy. On the other hand would we even have had a meeting with Clinton in power?
But hey, he still has four years and a lot of plans to claim a podium place.
That meeting with Kim was probably to woo him like US previously did to Iran to make them abandon nuclear armaments, but thankfully DPRK govt can read and do know what happens to countries who believe empty US lies. So since that didn't work, US in a second abandoned their friendly mask and went back to previous policies.
Andrew Jackson and it's not even close. Not to downplay the horrible crimes committed by many of our other presidents but I don't think anything rises to the level of the Trail of Tears.
Remove Jackson from the running and it's a more interesting conversation, however thinking about it reveals just how interconnected all of this stuff is. While the current genocide is occurring under Biden, we can't forget that the conditions that lead to Oct 7 were created under Trump. For that matter so were the conditions that lead to the escalation of the war in Ukraine.
I think the worst in my lifetime by a mile is Dubya, but while his wars were massive and consequential we can't forget that George Senior also killed scores of people in Iraq, and Clinton carried out the sanctions regime that killed scores more. Clinton was also the one who broke Labor's influence within the Democratic Party - but it was Obama who was swept into power on the promise of a working class revolution only to smother it in its crib.
But yeah my top two are Jackson and Dubya but beyond that I'm not sure there are a lot of crimes in the history of America's presidency.
For that matter so were the conditions that lead to the escalation of the war in Ukraine.
Complete mind palace nonsense. We literally impeached him for threatening to not send weapons there for the civil war that ended up exploding into the full scale invasion.
Not that he had good reasons to do a good thing, but your recollection of history is completely fucking inverted
but beyond that I’m not sure there are a lot of crimes in the history of America’s presidency.
okay maybe I'm expecting too much from you
...you know we genocided an entire continent of people, right? And continue to?
We literally impeached him for threatening to not send weapons there for the civil war that ended up exploding into the full scale invasion.
Ah yes, the impeachment that accomplished so much and is extremely relevant.
I don't care what Trump said or would have preferred, under his administration our government continued to fuel and escalate tensions in the region when we should have been pushing Ukraine to implement Minsk II and end the civil war. Maybe you could classify it as a mistake on his part instead of malice that he didn't stop the arms shipments even though he really wanted to, but people are still liable for mistakes.
you know we genocided an entire continent of people, right? And continue to?
I literally cited an episode from that genocide as my reasoning for Jackson being the worst president.
For that matter so were the conditions that lead to the escalation of the war in Ukraine.
That's Obama. Sure Trump continued but it's mostly on Obama for pushing the neonazi monstrosity to power and Biden for constant escalations to proxy world war and possibly to real world war soon.
Woodrow Wilson was so racist that he was quoted in an epigraph for "The Birth of a Nation." You know, the 1915 movie about how awesome the KKK was, which became the first true "blockbuster" film and which led to a huge resurgence in KKK activity. Not only that, but Woodrow Wilson also personally invited the filmmakers to screen the movie in the White House - the first movie ever screened in the White House, by the way. Honorable mention!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation#/media/File:Wilson-quote-in-birth-of-a-nation.jpg
As well as hating black people he also hated Slavs too and laid the foundations for anti-soviet US foreign policy
what? He gave the Slavic nations self-determination, there are roads named after him in e.g. Czechia, Slovakia; and wtf is bad about anti-Soviet foreign policy?
He gave the Slavic nations self-determination
Absurd claim. Slavic nations risen due to collapse of the three european empires in WWI.
wtf is bad about anti-Soviet foreign policy
The Soviets wanted deescalation after WW2, and supported self determination for liberated countries including Korea, Vietnam, Greece and Italy. Whatever you think of communism, the American policy of "containment" is directly and indisputably responsible for the suppression of democracy in dozens of countries and wars which killed tens of millions of people all because some of those people would have elected communist and socialist leaders we didn't like.
and wtf is bad about anti-Soviet foreign policy?
-adolf hitler
Would that have changed much (Except for his name & face being literally everywhere in the US) or would they just have taken another founding father as their idol?
How is it even close between Dubya and Trump like honestly Bush started the war on terror, killing and displacing millions.
The one that's presiding over a genocide and is currently trying to start WW3.
I think I have Trump derangement syndrome but for Bush Jr. instead cause very few people make my blood boil just by seeing their face like that scum.
I have yet to see a picture of him where he doesn't look like he has no clue of what is going on around him.
andrew jackson (or johnson can never remember which) for the trail of tears. absolutely awful
Jackson was trail of tears, Johnson was the one who killed reconstruction. Both very bad.
If you think Trump is worse than
you're telling everybody that you think norms are more important than a million dead brown peopleY’know, Nixon was also ultimately responsible for the extensive bombing of Cambodia and the extension of the Vietnam war, both of which killed millions (the former by laying the ground work for the rise of the Khmer Rouge) BUT the important part was that he spied in Democrats! Not to defend Trump, he’s a vile removed that would serve the world best as fertiliser, but his legacy doesn’t even remotely hold a candle to the likes of Nixon, Dubya, Truman/Eisenhower etc.
Woodrow Wilson? He’s the founder of modern US imperialism and a part of the reason most people are on this site due to the legacy of US imperialism.
I dunno, Nixon's fuckery is downright provincial these days.
Don't forget that the SCOTUS appointed by 47 ended the American experiment since Presidents are now effectively kings. Thanks to Presidential immunity, we no longer get to say nobody is above the law.
By this analogy, where does Biden, the American Paul von Hindenburg, land? Like obviously it's worse to actually abolish democracy, but surely working with those doing it and doing nothing to stop them is also evil?
E: As a disclaimer about my political views, I believe that Trump and every other US president should be executed for crimes against humanity.
He's more like Hindenburg if he lived to 1945. And still have few months left to start WW3 which he apparently tries to do and reach the title of The Worst Human That Ever Lived.
If we’re talking strictly the neoliberal era would it be too out there to say 1. Bush Jr 2. Reagan 3. Biden? All time though probably Andrew Jackson
While i abhor Bush Jr, I would put Reagan as #1. He paved the way for Bush Jr. And Biden. IMO Bush Sr is tied for the #3 spot simply for pardoning members of the Iran-Contra affair.
Nixon is one of the worst presidents we've ever had though, and I would put him higher than any of the others. The "war on drugs" caused so many rippling horrors domestically. And those horrors don't compare to what he did abroad.
James K. Polk. He went into a bloody war for conquest with Mexico to conclude Manifest Destiny.
