completely serious, i know it’s lib shit but i just don’t know why.
i didn’t like biden or trump so i just didn’t vote nationally
Also, a very large percentage of Latinos work in construction and construction has boomed under Trump. They look at democrats offering them nothing but vague woke posturing and Trump offering them years of steady work and increased wages and they say "fuck it, even if he's a racist piece of shit at least I can have consistent work".
Seriously, Latinos are a broad group. The idea that they are just a maleable "not white" bloc who will unite in the intersectional coalition is just a completely anti-material and ass backwards take.
Gringos on the internet trying to make "Latinx" a thing triggers working-class Latino men with fragile masculinity in exactly the same way that "campus liberals with blue hair" trigger a certain type of white dude.
"Privileged" people are the ones who put Joe Biden over the edge! Trump did lose support with educated whites, especially white men. So you can't blame "rich cis homos" when the data doesn't actually show that was the case.
LGBT people include white cis gay men who are incredibly privileged relative to the rest of the group
Why must you do this cringe. Not saying "white people are racist, cis people are transphobic" won't make the problem go away.
So you're focusing on one group because of your personal experience? All white LGBTs suck, they have no trouble being racist if it will make them feel more accepted by other white cishets.
Seriously, singling out "gay men" won't help shit because they all hate us.
If you don’t think men are more privileged than women, idk what to say. If you don’t think cis people are more privileged than trans or non-binary people idk what to say.
I said that?
Or do you mean that them reading that will make them hate me?
I said that?
That you waste your time by playing in their "identity politics". They don't care that they are gay men, they care that they are white and cis. They act like any other white and cis person will.
So if you agree with that what did your first comment mean and how was me saying that cringe
Because the same could (SHOULD) be said about white LBT people and cis LB people.
Because I don't calculate how many oppressor points oppressors accumulate? Singling this group would make sense if it was the only one doing it… it isn't.
Forgive me but I don't think I'm speaking to you disrespectfully. I'm not going to act like I care for #civility but where the fuck does this come from:
Engage in good faith or fuck off. I’m so sick of this shit
Do I speak to you like that?
I didn't come in hot, I made a comment calling it "cringe". I didn't imply you have no right to speak about LGBT issues. I'm sorry if (that) I offended you like that?
At this point I feel like you take what I say in bad faith. Which would make sense if you think I called you a cishet. But what the fuck.
Oh god I just deleted my reply, I aint typing it out again. TLDR I understand but I don't quite agree because the way I approach this is different
This was in response to the implication that "crossdressing" is more accepted now:
I am once again, asking Chapo to log off and stop making up fantasies about LGBT people
If it helps clarify some stuff, I'm from a Latin American country and nobody would say that with a straight face. "Stop making up fantasies about LGBT people" is a very mean way to say that #yourexperienceisnotuniversal and that there are LGBT people outside of the US/the West.
Also the person batch downvoting you here is cringe.
I can always say that it's because I'm @gay so they're homophobic.
If that was the only shitty thing I said then we're good. I'm experiencing a lot of anxiety today so I did not deescalate or attempt to explain myself better.
The right wing meme machine is really appealing to the lgb people that are vulnerable to radicalisation too. They are memeing femboys to death and openly joke about how gay everyone on the right is. If you try and joke about anything remotely gay in a liberal space you know what reaction you'll get? People freaking out about you speaking "inappropriately" and that the topic would be just as inappropriate if it were about anything straight. The democrats stink of fake support too and libs make homophobic remarks and jokes no less than right wingers but without the significant number of pro-gay things.
This is driving a significant crowd of LGB people that do not care about trans people into reactionary circles. It's much larger than people realise.
On top of that, Trump already demonstrated he wouldn't hurt them. The 14% turnout in 2016 had a "fear of unknown" to it and also came off the back of shootings that the lgbt community suffered, the nightclub shooting in Orlando was 2016 and right wingers were particularly shit about it.
The memeing of femboys is pretty interesting watch. Are they being accepted kind of like another model minority?
cis men crossdressing has become more acceptable
Uhh, no it hasn't
Edit: I am once again, asking Chapo to log off and stop making up fantasies about LGBT people
I'm sorry, society being transmisogynist and fetishizing this "behavior" doesn't make it "more accepted". Bigots will spit on you and jerk of to you at the same time, what's new.
I don't think either of you are that far apart in you thinking, there's been an escalation in temperature here due to poor communication mostly. Both of you are good posters I like please don't fight. :angery:
As the pettiest person I will insist that I didn't escalate shit.
Also I'll fight you tf : :bottle:
Plus, Advertising is a hell of a drug. People don't know where their interests are represented. That's why some poorest of the poor vote conservative.
Cause identity politics is bullshit and it makes more sense when you break it down by class.
Most of the votes this year can be broken down into the category of college educated voters. Democrats are quickly becoming the snobby, rich and highly educated party. Some how, some way, the GOP is managing to paint itself out as this working class party and it's beginning to work to some extent.
It don't help that Dems spent this entire election cycle talking down to minorities in a smug, condescending matter (like how they talk to all of us, as if we're just fucking brain dead stupid unless we vote blue and fuck you anyway for being poor, that's their mindset).
On the other hand, when you look at it from income levels, most of the increased support Trump got for LGBT and POC was coming from middle and upper class households. What ID-POL nonsense don't take into account is that there are a lot of rich minorities and LGBT folks in this country. There's a history with Log Cabin Republicans coming out of the LGBT block and if you analyze Latino voters, a large portion of them are Catholic and have leaned conservative for decades.
I'm sure Dems didn't help themselves by running the author of the 1994 crime bill and man who's staff flat out said back in May that they didn't find Latinos to be that important of a voter block.
Nonwhite people can be stupid as fuck too. People aren’t magically woke because they have darker skin than you or have specific sexual proclivities. And to think that gay white men can’t be reactionary is just a fantasy.
Let's not exaggerate this. About half of Latinos don't vote, of the ones that do 32% voted Trump, up from 28% in 2016. So we're discussing 2% of Latinos here. With black people the percentage is even smaller.
4% of Latinos who voted but only half of Latinos voted.
.5 * .04 = 2% of the whole Latino population.
trump is the same guy as before, the dems got worse, so trump got better results in that regard.
Most people are totally lost in politics
They have few positions and barely understand left or right, usually they are mixed up on the basics
They likely thought they were better off than 4 years before
Or they cared about other shit, like not wearing a mask or were afraid of paying taxes that would never have effected them
Trump literally only lost because of the state and local income tax deduction cap at $10,000. That pissed off enough of his white collar base to flip to Biden in key places like the Philly and Detroit burbs, Atlanta, NC, Arizona, etc. Florida and Texas don't have state income taxes, so it's not a factor there. You can't really blame Covid because it's raging and Trump basically matched his result from last time.
Black conservatives were literally talking about the crime bill as a reason to vote trump over biden.
They also cited some obscure criminal justice laws Trump passed that supposedly helped them, but I dont know anything about it.
Trump was running ads featuring black people talking about either
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How the Trump economy has increased black employment
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How Trump is actually helping black people with his criminal justice program because of the few pardons he's done.
Obviously it's monstrous bullshit coming from the campaign of a racist, but with a concerted effort to appeal to black people against the crime bill guy, I can see why it would work.
did biden do anything similar or did he just say you’re not black if you don’t vote for me? honestly i think that hurt him a lot, even trump didn’t say anything that dumb the last 6 months about black people
with a concerted effort to appeal to black people against the crime bill guy, I can see why it would work
Don't forget the crime bill guy said "if you don't vote for me, you ain't black."
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These are exit polls, which I'm pretty sure are performed by in-person interviews at polling places. So I'm thinking they're pretty skewed by the record early/absentee voting that took place this year.
Not saying that there wasn't a shift, just that I bet it's less statistically significant than the exit polling data would show.
Trump got a 20-30 point swing in counties in south Texas that are 90+% Latino (mostly Mexican American) and desperately poor. It's not just "exit polling" or "damn CUBANS" at it again.
Yeah, for latinos there definitely was a shift. It could just come down to the fact that Biden did almost no campaigning with them
I think more broadly it's because the Democrats have nothing to materially offer anyone who's working class. On the other hand, Trump does tap into a vein of male spite and rage that cuts across racial lines.
Working class Latino men are shifting towards Trump for the exact same reasons that working class white men in the Rust Belt did. Men are falling behind in the knowledge economy and their economic precarity challenges their masculinity. You could see the first signs of this with incels/the red pill imo, they were a canary in the coal mine. Contrary to popular belief, they aren't all mayo ass white boys, they are pretty diverse. There's just a growing resentment by men towards women that crosses racial lines. Black men are next. The Tariq Nasheed/Patrice O'Neal crowd is pretty big and will be shifting towards the GOP
Joe campaigning to Latinos would have been a massive waste of time, and his campaign team was smart enough to recognize that.
Men are falling behind in the knowledge economy
(Liz Warren voice) "instead of saying "dudes rock" you should say "dudes are buying skills at the skill store"
This. 10000000%
Good point about incels. Look at AZN identity ffs
People are saying it's because these groups aren't monolithic, but we're talking about a change from 2016 here, it's not as if they've become less monolithic over time. And besides, if it were confined to the more privileged subgroups, why wouldn't we also see an upswing in cishet white male etc support for Trump? That went down.
There are two reasons for this, that I can see.
First, Joe Biden is offering only platitudes, and this is in a time where neither party gains any ground by openly declaring their opposition to minority rights, except for trans people in particular (who I would guess did not swing toward Trump). If real liberation isn't on the table, and the rhetorical difference isn't that vast, then there are much weaker forces binding disadvantaged groups to the Democratic party. As to why now is different from 2016 in this respect, I'd just say it's sunk in more since we've been living under these circumstances for an extra 4 years.
Second, I think the right in America is staking out a position that's still incredibly bigoted and exclusionary, but on less clear identity-based grounds. People are being offered a chance to assimilate into the top end of a hierarchy that's based on "American-ness" rather than being quite as tied to intrinsic qualities. The Republican party is trying, successfully, to break any ties between Latino voters and the Latinos victimized by ICE, and to break the ties between trans people and the rest of the LGBT community. It's the same deal the right has always offered: you'll get screwed over, but at least you're still above those people. They just have to offer it to more people now that the identity demographics of the USA are shifting away from them.
None of these groups you are describing are monolithic. "Black" describes poor black people born in the US (think ADOS and such) and rich Nigerians who immigrated here or whose parents immigrated here. Cubans aren't Mexicans aren't Guatamalans. The Latino community shares a language and some culture, but that's about it. There are people in places like NM or AZ whose families have been in the US for several generations and would call themselves Spanish and not Latino, and immigration isn't a concern to them like jobs are. I know a bunch of Mexican people here in Houston, whose families have been in the US for a couple generations, who couldn't give two shits about protecting illegal immigrants. Same goes for LGBT voters. One of the richest, most NY upper east side Republicans I ever met in college was gay. He did not have the same politics as, say, your average poor trans person probably does.
It might not necessarily be more people, just a higher proportion of people. Which might mean that just fewer voted for Biden.
LGBTQ+ - it's because the Republican party has basically spent the last four years or so pretending that they actually are fine with gay people. They lost that battle, so they can just pretend they never fought it American cultural memory is short enough that it's believable for some people. It has given permission for all the bougie white gays to pretend Republicans are actually fine if it lines up with their class interests. There's also be a concerted push to have gay men in the online conservative Koch funded media networks (Think Michael Knowles or Scott Pressler.)
I think you could probably safely say that it includes basically hardly any trans people since the Republicans say the most reprehensible shit about trans people any time they're given the chance.
