Ukraine-Russia Megathread 22

CARCOSA [they/them] · 3 years ago

Ukraine-Russia Megathread 22

Awoo [she/her] · edit-2 3 years ago

Real talk, the NATO playbook here is going to be to try and create conditions that force Russia into doing what they have been saying Russia will do -- to occupy the country. They want to create a situation that is so out of control that it requires a complete governmental takeover to bring it to order, this will force Russia into doing what it did not want to do at the beginning of this. Something that appears like an annexation or takeover "regime change".

The west will then weaponise this as confirmation they were right all along.

I sincerely hope this outcome can be avoided because it will result in EU countries supporting fascist insurgencies that spread across Europe very easily otherwise.

AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her] · 3 years ago

it will result in EU countries supporting fascist insurgencies that spread across Europe very easily

tbh I think this is already inevitable, the hegemony has decided that this time its going all in on being the nazis

Awoo [she/her] · edit-2 3 years ago

I will go all in on being a fucking partisan if that occurs and they can bite me.

:ira:

Alaskaball [comrade/them] · 3 years ago

Folks sign up for the Awoo international brigade while spots last! :party-sicko:

Awoo [she/her] · edit-2 3 years ago

lmao seriously though shit is fucked up if I have to die pulling down a swastika or whatever variant they come up with in my community I will

Alaskaball [comrade/them] · 3 years ago

Just remember good guerrillas are patient and are in the fight for the long haul. Gotta be around to pop open the Victory sparkling wine, yeah

Awoo [she/her] · 3 years ago

I think it'll play out a little differently. I don't think they will be able to create the blanket nazism they want. Here in the UK for example I'm confident we have entire cities of reds or blacks that would form militant opposition if necessary. There's no fucking way Bristol or Liverpool is going to accept any kind of nazi administration for example. There's no way the trade unions will here either.

Speaking of unions.. The trade unions across Europe will need either stamping out or taking over if they want to achieve it.

Alaskaball [comrade/them] · 3 years ago

Oh yeah I forgot you were a limey. Y'all will probably have drunken pub fights like football hooligans because some CBGB dork clobbered a blackshirt over the head with his cider mug because he insulted his favorite team.

I don't know shit about the UK landscape, but I'm reckoning the most you'll get is dipshits going over to get yeeted by Russian rockets in Ukraine, and the smart dipshits that don't go probably will be encouraged to start organizing more aggressively in the public while draped in the Ukrainian flag, taking advantage of cold-war brainworms to call for the national defense of queen and country against Russian communism or something stupid. Lots of street tussle, probably stabbings and the like.

Awoo [she/her] · 3 years ago

The UK is probably uniquely able to avoid becoming nazified because of being an island with a strong socialist presence. That doesn't mean it won't become some variant of fascist (police state is certainly happening) but I agree with you that we're in a fairly strong position to push out nazification. Even if the state itself heavily pushed for it we would see a left-reaction occur in the form of street fights against fascists. Another battle of cable street eventually.

I wanna say that the UK establishment also seems somewhat reluctant to jump completely on-board with it all. The media is obviously pushing it but the government itself is being reserved compared to EU and the US.

I think they're aware that such nazification here would just create massive instability and drive even greater intent for various movements to break up the UK. Scottish desire for independence would go through the roof if English nazis started to get anywhere.

Alaskaball [comrade/them] · 3 years ago

but the government itself is being reserved compared to EU and the US.

Probably has something with your feds clapping their own cheeks with their withdrawal from the EU and seemingly a trend towards isolationism in favor for internal stability.

Awoo [she/her] · edit-2 3 years ago

Honestly kinda feel like that was a good move if the EU fucking collapses all by itself over the economic disaster they're creating for themselves with these Russia sanctions.

Russia will nationalise everything that has ever been privatised since 1991 if it has to in order to survive. EU is fucking up badly and getting caught between the US and Russia on this and utterly fucking themselves. The EU is MUCH more reliant on Russian gas than the UK is. Russian gas is only 4% of UK supply. EU is 45%.

Alaskaball [comrade/them] · 3 years ago

Yeah it'll be interesting watching how the economics side plays out in the coming months. Like whether or not the nato nerds actually go all out and self-destruct in actually trying to hold Russia accountable, or they hope everyone forgets about this whole crisis in a few weeks and quietly undo all of the sanctions. Also Russia will be an interesting watch since it seems like their economy wants to crumble in a run-away financial collapse but is being held together with their federal intervention and freeze. It's definitely going to be one hell of a show watching the cards fall

Awoo [she/her] · 3 years ago

If push comes to shove... Would Russia do real-politik socialism? That sounds really fucking weird but part of me thinks it's not off the table.

Alaskaball [comrade/them] · 3 years ago

Probably make it some bizarre abomination that makes a mockery of the USSR economic system

Awoo [she/her] · 3 years ago

I mean... Yeah.

But if they're forced down the road of massive nationalisation then they also need to think about how to manage that politically and efficiently... If they mass nationalise then they also have to centrally plan the economy and if they centrally plan the economy they have to find ways to solve the inefficiencies of central planning.

The solution that makes sense is to devolve the planning out to local councils. Empowering them each massively.

The outcome of which would massively empower communists in the country... To the point that all you would need to establish a DOTP would be for the communists to gain top-level leadership again. It would be a restoration of a heavily corrupted workers state to some degree out of necessity as only such distribution of power can handle a near-fully nationalised economy. You're right to call it a bizarre abomination... But I see it as a possibly very beneficial direction?