not enough on what actually looks good to wear:
you need to dress like Louis XIV. tight socks bring out your fit legs. heels make you taller and better at riding horse. lace is good. lace on cuffs, the neck, as accents lining coats. be sure to tie ribbons in and braid your long hair. a bit of blush and concealer are essential for covering your smallpox scars. the bigger and floppier your hat the more boisterous and honorable a cavalier you become.
Good advice but I'm going to add to it: develop an almost pathological need to work your political ideology into every conversation, no matter how difficult.
You really can do this to the Frittte! cashier in-game. She insists she has no political ideology of her own, and she's a teenager so that might make her more self-aware than a lot of kids her age.
And then he shoplifts one or more objects because of whatever random impulses are floating through his head at the moment.
I think it’d be off-putting to most people to say “Mao and Stalin were each better than every US President combined”.
it really depends on your delivery, but i have made this work at least a handful of times
I'm not totally sure how to word this one well, but you will be put into situations where the path of least resistance is gonna be going along with some super toxic masculinity, the path of most resistance will have you belittled and ostracized at best and the shit kicked out of you at worst, here's the middle ground: absolutely biting sarcasm. Don't explain to dudes on their smoke break why how they're talking about women is bad and disrespectful, bully them about it. Bros live and die by the Own, their current Philosopher King is the person who has just dispensed the best burn. This requires already being confident, quick witted and funny but I get the furthest by just being a sarcastic insulting prick about their behavior cause it's the language they speak. Some may come around to the point you can treat them like adults and the rest will at least know to knock it off when you're around.
It's harder cause they can leave without you making fun of them for it.
Seeing the struggle sessions about the left not giving enough good advice to dudes and deciding to just give the advice yourself is a powerful move :gigachad:
Article on conversation styles was pretty interesting. I used to be pretty shy and a lot the advice you get is to just ask the other person a lot of questions, which can make conversations feel like interviews and be kinda unpleasant. After I became more confident and willing to talk about myself and my own interests it became way easier to bond with people.
I definitely don't compliment people as much as I should. It creates good vibes all around. I'm planning to spend this weekend as alone as possible since the last couple were really social and stressful due to the christmas and new years, but I'll make sure to hand out some compliments on monday thanks to this thread :rat-salute:
i saw a lot of people talking about quizzing people or interviewing them and as somebody who tries really hard to connect with people i spend time talking to i ask a lot of questions and i have to say the best way for it to feel like an interview is when one person is asking about the other person and the other person just answers and never asks anything back. i can't tell you how many people at parties just let me ask about them and then there's awkward silence and i can offer info about myself but often it feels unwarranted or weird. so, in conclusion, if you want to have a 'normal' conversation then ask people about themselves and dig into whatever genuinely interests you and hopefully they're someone who asks you back and then, voila! you have a conversation.
Do it all for yourself, not a hypothetical girlfriend. Hygiene. Be healthy for yourself. If you buy trendy clothing you will need to keep buying clothes, or end up looking outdated. If you can afford it and enjoy fashion, go crazy. If you want low maintenance aim for classic styles and just focus on the fit and colors.
Dating apps can trash your mental health if you aren't doing a lot of self care. Consider just staying off dating apps altogether. Try to get together with people irl, go to stuff if you're invited. If you hang out with people who are in relationships they might try to set you up with their friends. Try to have fun and laugh, be funny and kind.
rip i don't care about myself enough for that and adhd or whatever makes that shit impossible
Dating apps can trash your mental health if you aren’t doing a lot of self care. Consider just staying off dating apps altogether
yeah there's better ways to self-harm if you want to self harm
Try to get together with people irl, go to stuff if you’re invited
Covid, winter, money.
I used to get really annoyed at people who'd try to socialize with me in those ways, like offering me compliments or asking me about what I'm wearing. I've been in the headspace that people who did that were trying to make fun of me, or trick me somehow. I never trusted anyone who tried to socialize with me and I've completely avoided socializing on my own.
And so a lot of this post makes sense. People have avoided me probably because I look tired and aggressive all the time. I also deliberately dress as bland as possible so I don't stick out.
I'm trying to fix this, but I'm still very lost. I've got debilitating social anxiety, but thankfully I've caught it and recognize it's a problem before it gets too bad.
People that go super hard on that sort of way of socializing always turn me off because it seems like they're following steps told to them on how to socialize. Like when people ask you to Tell the Group About Yourself kinda feelings. I'm glad you're showing an interest but I really don't want to biographize and my interests are really fucking niche. It all feels fake when someone is asking me too many questions about myself when we've just met. Stuff will come out organically in its own time, don't like quiz people.
Yeah I can understand that, my main problem has been meeting people in the first place. I built up such deliberately isolation in my life that I'm never in a situation to socialize other than my coworkers, and they've already established me as the complete weirdo.
I don't mind giving biographies of myself either at this point. I'll answer any question a stranger asks, but it doesn't really happen. No idea where I'm going at this point.
Yeah, it seems to be a major problem here that I just like...don't have. I can strike up a conversation with just about anyone and people tend to open up pretty quick around me. Like, I met an older lady in my walk to work the other day and while chatting about neighborhood cats she dropped that her landlord was trying to sell the place out from under her, which had happened to me a year ago and I hooked her up with contacts for the tenancy board and local IWW. I've always just kinda been someone that strangers wanna talk to and all it took for me was to stop being in my early 20s and get over myself a bit. I've got a look that ingratiates me to both the stylish and the homeless on site as well, I'm sure that helps.
Someone once told me I have the face of a "school shooter" so I guess I have some weird aura I give off. Probably something within my control, I'll work on it.
OP did have a solid point regarding fashion. My hair is like if Cruella DeVille played in a dbeat band and I dress the same. I can also do 80s Goth Mode. Consistency of style is important. Like, no matter how high quality or whatever the clothes, I find most dudes just dress like shit. My ripped up t shirt over a waffle shirt with a studded denim vest, skinny jeans, motorcycle boots and awesome hair is gonna be a better look than a guy with a fade, sorta baggy blue jeans and a brand shirt any day
People that go super hard on that sort of way of socializing always turn me off because it seems like they’re following steps told to them on how to socialize.
For people learning it'll definitely come off like this at first, but if they keep at it then eventually it'll become smooth. It's weird that for other skills we expect there to be complete noobs who fumble and make mistakes but when it comes to social skills suddenly everyone has to "be organic" or else it's cringe.
Well, it's also the same way someone who wants to take advantage of you will approach you, so it's kinda hard to not be defensive. Mechanics for faking it till you make it social skills at early steps are hard to discern from PUA tactics and Bosses. This is the fault of PUA tacticians and bosses because they beed to learn to socialize that way because they are bad people. I don't really know what to do approach wise, reception wise I'm familiar enough to know it's just how some people go about meeting others and go along, I can also usually tell what the angle is from context, it just sets of an initial irrational red flag.
Mechanics for faking it till you make it social skills at early steps are hard to discern from PUA tactics
says a lot about the whole "fake it until you make it" thing
People that go super hard on that sort of way of socializing always turn me off because it seems like they’re following steps told to them on how to socialize.
that or they're reactionary christians
I'm all kinds of willing to admit despite being a fucking weirdo I was built from the ground up to be charming as fuck to normals. I was raised on doing good solid silly banter, it runs pretty hard in my dad's side and some pretty good dry humor from my mom's, although she isn't generally all that funny but plays a good straight role in a bit and when she does have a joke it kills. So I've always been hilarious, since like age 8 ive knoen i can make anyone laugh easilt and ive just gotten better at it. Now I am absolutely certain that I can make anyone I speak to laugh within 2 minutes. Then I was a bookish kid who could verbally run circles around people bit also wasn't the best target for a fight compared to more ripe needs. Then I got into punk where literally everyone is pretty sharp mouthed even if they're the dumbest trash heap you've ever met, they're quick on their feet verbally. The rest kinda slid into place, also I drink a lot.
I used to be this way but decades of depression made my brain not work so good
Well, if it's any comfort, that's about as close as i get to people and am perfectly content not having anyone ever in my house aside from my cat.
yeah I really enjoy being alone these days, and have been out of the dating world for so long I can only imagine it's everything I used to hate X1000
I've never really 'dates' hookups just either remained hookups or became a thing.
Part of the issue is that "normal" clothing these days really does trend towards being bland. Frustratingly enough, you may need to spend some money to get clothing with bright colors.
The prefix missing from your post is “new clothing.” It’s over saturated as hell with Depop and TikTok, but you absolutely do not need to spend money to thrift colorful clothing
The day I first answered someone's questions about me was life changing. Turns out most people just want to connect, aren't trying to take advantage of you.
have you ever heard of attachment theory? it might be psuedoscience bs to some people or maybe not the right model/framework but for me it was a helpful tool in understanding why i was reacting to people in specific ways over and over again. why i was understanding a different reality than they were etc. anyway maybe something to check out if you're curious. for me it helped me unwind a lot of unconscious social behaviors.
Some practical fashion advice:
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Find out if you have a cool or warm undertone. This will help a lot with picking colors that suit you. I like this tutorial. She also has a whole playlist about colors. Some are less useful than others, but some can help you determine on your color palette once you've determined your undertone. A lot of her other fashion advice is for women's fashion, but colors are universal.
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Take some time and just try stuff on. Go to a big department store with a wide selection. This doesn't have to be a place that you would actually make a purchase from. You're not there to buy, you're there to determine what silhouettes look good on you. Not sure what style of _______ suits you? Pick a color from your palette that you like. Now go find a bunch of different styles of that clothing item in that color and go try them on. It's key that you stick to the same color so you're focusing on the fit, not not color. Pay attention to things like where the shoulder seam sits, where on your hips you like a jacket or sweater to hit you, what fit of denim makes you feel good, etc. Pay attention to how proportions make you look. For example, I wear normal sizes in shirts, but petite in pants. If I don't want my legs to look stubby, it helps to not "cut them off" visually by wearing shirts that hang down too low. Another Short Person trick is to wear the same color shoes and pants, so the eye kind of blends them all together to a longer silhouette. But different things work on different bodies, and the only real way to find out what works for you is to just try them on. This does take time, but at least for me, it was time well spent. When I'm shopping now, I can often look at something and know that if I put it on, I am not going to feel like I'm looking my best, so it's easy to give it a pass and not waste my time. High necked and sleeveless? Hard pass. Lighter color on the bottom than on the top? Never ever. Khaki pants do not exist in my wardrobe. You get the picture.
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Don't talk yourself into clothes. Nine times out of ten, they'll just sit in your closet because when you're getting dressed, you're going to gravitate to things that you don't have to persuade yourself to like. If you're not feeling it, you're not feeling it. Leave it on the rack and try again some other time.
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If you're trying to keep things simple, a capsule wardrobe might be good for you. Even if you find the capsule concept too restrictive (like me!), you might find their tips helpful, like on making sure that the elements of your wardrobe work together in various permutations, stuff like that. Just search "capsule wardrobe" and you'll have tons of options.
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Remember that ultimately, it's about feeling good in your own skin and feeling good about how you're presenting yourself to others. If the rules say that a certain color is bad for your undertone or a certain cut doesn't suit your body type but you feel :gigachad: when you wear it, then wear it! It all comes down to how your clothes make you feel.
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I feel like an asshole for saying this but I just though I'd point out that we've never had a self help thread for any other gender except cis dudes, so the idea that "we don't do this" is silly chud propaganda imo
Yeah I originally had like the biggest eyeroll to this post but reading it it really does seem like there’s a bunch of users who don’t understand just basic stuff about how to be normal but for some reason thought they couldn't ask until this post? - IDK seems like this is ultimately on the good side of fine to me
Edit - my post made more sense before that danged owl edited their comment
People literally get upset with you when you ask this kinda shit irl
It's genuinely useful information for neurodivergents and people who haven't socialized enough
A literal HOW TO BE NORMAL :brace-dark-cowboy: effortpost would probably be a good thing imo
I am a total fucking weirdo and would be a bad choice to make it though
A literal HOW TO BE NORMAL effortpost would probably be a good thing imo
Someone tried last week and we've been fighting about it ever since lol
Not a very good guide them
It's also not so much being normal as hiding your power level
they said "go out" on new years, or are we talking about different posts?
Yeah I literally made a post the other day that was "What's the deal with relationships". I need a lot of normal things explained to me haha
I agree but sometimes it comes across as "Only cis dudes struggle with being neurodivergent or have social issues."
It is my job to talk to people. Cis dudes struggle with it at levels far higher than the rest of the population.
Oh yeah, I don't want to discourage help for our cis male comrades at all. You guys rock and I love y'all. I just don't like the stereotype that "the left hates men"
sorry for the double reply
it's not that the left hates men or white people or westerners full stop, it's that we understandably always focus on other stuff and it leaves us to fall through the cracks not knowing what to do with ourselves.
men generally can't talk to women about this stuff, they don't talk to eachother about it or when they do it's always PUA-tier shit or uselessplatitudes, but in the trans specific spaces i'm in i see people talking about dating while trans with eachother all the fucking time and since a lot of us are trying to date eachother i assume the advice is better quality. People who get approached by cishet men have a different set of objectives and problems and there's a huge infrastructure of advice and safety tips and so on that's reasonable and not exclusively full of rightwing bullshit.
meanwhile I'm over here and people i might have mutual interest in aren't going to approach me and I have some idea of what they have to go through and deal with so I'm too afraid of piling on that by talking to a stranger or loose acquaintance... pre-covid... and the left *definitely * oesn't care about finding me specifically a partner(s).
I agree that it is a dumb conception, but we can be thankful that it's not really a stereotype but just something someone said online a few days ago that as far as I can see no one noticed except Hexbear
but for some reason thought they couldn’t ask until this post?
in addition to what FourteenEyes said, it's bold of you to assume that we even know what to ask more specifically than "how get partner"
You can even ask that you know - it's complicated and maybe uncomfortable to hear but I'm sure you'd get a lot of good advice. I know I have some.
i'm not a wizard but i am dying in the desert over here. It's not possible to recreate the social conditions I was in before and I don't want to meet anyone who would be looking in the usual places at this time of year in this part of the country... in fact i want to leave but i'm stuck because of poverty so even if i thought it was possible to get specific useful advice in good faith from such a generic question I'm not in a position to act on it.
so the idea that “we don’t do this” is silly chud propaganda imo
no it isn't. don't gaslight me. I've been in feminist and feminist-adjacent spaces for over a decade and the advice to men is endless "don't"s going back at least to elevatorgate, and there's almost never actionable "things to do" because feminists are understandably focused on womens' issues, the advice that straight cis amab people who grew up in western culture want is a ritual to get a partner, and what you *should * o when interacting with a person varies too much from person to person for that kind of advice to even be possible to give.
so it's usually not done. This post is kinda medium despite the effort and it's still the best i've ever seen from a left community.
How is it gaslighting to point out that 'the left doesn't care about mens issues' is a chud talking point, right up there with "why is there no white history month?" or "Where is straight pride month?"
You just said you've been getting advice from feminist spaces, so yes, the left has been trying to help. Telling people not what to do helps them learn what to do. The vast majority of leftist spaces are male dominated and are more then happy to give advice. This thread is proof of that.
Again, I'm not against advice for men, this post is good. I'm just against using mens issues as vehicle for right-wing falsehoods.
Hey, there's a big difference between advice like "don't hit on people in public spaces" and "here's where it's okay to hit on people and how to do it."
The left gives a lot of the first, very little of the second.
How is it gaslighting to point out that ‘the left doesn’t care about mens issues’ is a chud talking point, right up there with “why is there no white history month?” or “Where is straight pride month?”
this is ridiculous. I'm telling you my personal experience of a decade plus of online leftism and feminism and posts like this are extremely rare and never good enough. You're contradicting my report of my obsevations. Stop it.
You just said you’ve been getting advice from feminist spaces, so yes, the left has been trying to help.
"hey guys don't hit on women in confined spaces where they can't leave" is absolutely not "caring about mens issues". There's some "patriarchy hurts men too" discourse every couple years but feminists are rightly focused on what they're focused on for activism and attention, i.e. not mens' issues (and it's bad and wrong to go into specifically feminist spaces and ask them to to spend a bunch of time and effort on men) so the best we've got is :reddit-logo: r/menslib
Telling people not what to do helps them learn what to do.
no it really doesn't. certainly never did for me.
This thread is proof of that.
this thread only exists because of multiple preceding observations of how little content like this there is... and it's still not good enough, possibly because it's not possible to ever be prescriptive and correct enough to help people with interpersonal relations, let alone men and male-passing people deal with patriarchy and interact with other people steeped in and harmed by patriarchal culture.
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not against discussing men's issues and helping men. I am against the idea that the left doesn't care about or want to help men. It's simply untrue. To accuse the left, which is largely dominated by men, of being anti-male is ridiculous.
tbh I'm the one starting to feel a little gaslighted here. That or we are both missing each other's points entirely.
Perhaps we mean something different by "caring"? There are a lot of situations and events that suck and I don't callously disregard them but i have no time, effort, or influence on them so i don't actively claim to care, and that's how i've perceived liberal feminist and left (and like, BIPOC toward the struggles unique to white people) attitudes toward the issues facing people on the other side of the relevant privilege axis. chuds pointing out something that's vaguely accurate doesn't mean there's a wealth of positive constructive advice.
we care about poor white people but all we really offer them is "hey it's a class struggle" and we have no political power (at least in the states) to do much more than union organizing, but that may or may not be enough help to some cracker who's being crushed by capitalism, but that person isn't really a priority.
Well, I don't think I'm much help lol. In any case, here's hoping that by talking more about it we can get closer towards something more helpful.
yeah. ulysses expanded on something i asked about directly and that reply seems like it could be useful to someone
We literally have a com dedicated to men's issues. To say the left doesn't care about men is a chud talking point.
Then post to it more. Also to be fair the main comms have been used to ask about mens issues too. Men enjoy being the default human of society, so mens fashion just gets posted to fashion, mens socializing gets posted to the default neurodiverge comm, etc.
Then post to it more.
like what? i'm completely fallen through the cracks and have nothing to say unprompted. Shit sucks and you all aren't my therapist or capable of changing my material conditions and the revolution isn't tomorrow.
???
So do you want advice or do you not want advice then?
i want advice that applicable and useful. So far it's "embody a bunch of culturally normative bullshit" and if I was capable of doing that i don't think i would've found my way into communism.
I think that's something a lot of people struggle with and that humanity in large is still trying to figure out.
i think that's bullshit too, but this post is about socializing and a subfocus on attracting women to be partners which i have been told we should not do at work, so makeup for the workplace is striking me as a weird example at the moment. i understand that's not core to your point.
as this is c/menby i'd rather not go on a big tangent about womens' issues and i'm only qualified to tell you things i've observed or learned by listening and that you already know anyway.
no. womens' issues exist and are legitimate but this is not the comm, i'd be happy to read an actual comparative discussion about it in another comm but not here and I do not seek to condescend to you things you know more about than I do.
I always feel really discouraged by these tutorials on the correct way to interact with people.
I know I'm fucked, but it makes it seem like so much work, which is antithetical to just being myself and enjoying someone else's company. Tbh I think if you're mentally healthy then all this shit will just come to you organically, for the most part. But I guess I wouldn't really know...
I think its good advice for people who want help.
Like if you're tired of having awkward conversations and interactions with people it's a good start
Use eye concealer if needed to cover up eye shadows/bags. Studies show that looking visibly tired makes you less appealing to socialize with
Oh advice and links on this and concealer for acne or whatever? Makeup is scary and feminine and full of snake oil salesmen
My friends have recommended this and it's magic https://www.sephora.com/product/radiant-creamy-concealer-P377873
Go to a makeup store and ask the salespeople to help you figure out what shade matches your skin and how to apply. My experiences at skincare/makeup stores have all been great. People are extremely knowledgeable and want to help you instead of selling as much as they can (I think because there's no commission usually so it just attracts hobbyists)
For advice I just Google stuff. Makeup is the exact same on men as it is on women so just follow the advice made for women
:rat-salute: Tomorrow I will go to Autozone and then Sephora
ask a person you know who uses makeup irl or go to a makeup store that has salespeople (who will probably try to upsell you, but prolly give you some decent advice)
ask a person you know who uses makeup irl
bold assumption
Give me more topics to talk about if there's something you're curious about. I can probably offer more good advice
Hard to describe since fashion is an art and it's something you have to develop, hone, and refine through experience creating and consuming art
Start by just following as many sources for fashion as you can to get an idea of what's trendy nowadays and good outfits for inspiration. Copy ideas at first and then when you get a hang of how to match colors and silhouettes, you can start doing your own thing. Also check out everybody's outfits when you're outside and add nice ones you see to your memory bank
Instagram and tiktok in my experience are the best online sources
Also, fashion in the East is taking over the entire world and becoming more influential than ever. Especially now since baggy/loose is in again and Eastern styles have more of that. Look at what the Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans are wearing as well
Also you can shop around on shein.com to see what's trendy nowadays as well. They're by far the best and cheapest fast fashion company and it's really popular. Quality is much better than fast fashion mall brands like H&M and Zara
I'd suggest specific accounts to follow but I've deleted my socials a few years ago and I take my fashion inspiration from real life now
Fashion is very subjective but generally speaking tighter fitting clothes are better than baggy clothes. Figure out if you have warm or cool skin tones and stick to those colors (the easiest way to test this if silver or gold looks better on your skin, if silver go cool colors, if gold go warm). High contrast between your bottom and top half is risky. Generally don't wear only muted colors (white, black, grey, brown), some flare is important. You don't want too much of a pattern and do not mix patterns. Accessories can help a lot. Matching colors are cool but don't overdo it. Layering with jackets/sweaters is very cool too.
If you're muscular up top you can get away with breaking these rules somewhat.
"get your shit together" type stuff. I have struggled with discipline for years. Building good habits, going to gym regularly, going to bed and waking up on time, regularly volunteering (important for leftists!) are a real grind for me.
That is far above my pay grade and likely anybody else that wouldn't charge you money
Unfortunately, advice for this is like trying to find advice for "fixing depression" or "fixing social anxiety". The reasons with these issues in each individual's brain are different for each and are likely various and complex and the solutions even more
All good. Suggested mostly as topic that I/others would probably like to see. The "clean your room" Jordan Peterson type of self help. (Who knows if that stuff actually works, I've never engaged with it, but the right likes boot camps.)
someone else posted this https://imgur.com/a/bPvGn0x her ea while ago, idk if it's good though. Social model of disability is cool and all but society isn't gonna change drastically enough for us over a couple years so i guess deal with mental heath "professionals" as long as you can stand them and try a bunch of drugs and hopefully one of those or some combination of the work before you don't see a purpose in trying and sit around all day wondering why you didn't
tw self harm
kill yourself 5 years ago or if you'll have the strength of will to do it when you become homeless.
Ty. First chart looks OK, I may print it out and reference. I'm just lazy, my life is pretty good but it could be better. Seems to be less bad than my ADHD friends but does improve with stimulants.
If you're fighting with yourself over pies you're making shit hard for yourself. It's about how much you move in daily life, the range of body fat percentage before your body sends hunger signals, the habits you have eating, the amount of the food you eat that gets synthesized into lean mass (which is related to resistance training).
Weight loss takes more radical intervention than is possible for most people. If it's not part of a larger plan, eat the pie.
If you've got a plan that involves moving to somewhere walkable, cooking more, tracking calories, getting off anti depressants and weightlifting 3 times a week, I don't need to tell you this. If you don't, eat the pie.
I used to practice socializing by going out and hanging outside bars until someone came outside to smoke. Then I'd join them and just chat about what they were into or what they did. Works pretty well because there's typically a ten minute cap on the conversation and people who are a bit drunk are usually more amenable to just chewing the fat. And if it's a dud, doesn't matter, it's someone you were probably never going to know anyway. But you'll also meet some interesting people with cool experiences and stuff to say.
It annoys me that the smoking area is the only place quiet enough to chat and the only place people seem to want to chat to strangers.
