gender is socially constructed. saying that you prefer "natural born women" is exactly like saying you prefer people who weren't "born a criminal"
the takes on this board get worse everyday...
gender is socially constructed, but our bodies and sexual attractions to them aren't. transition may change your body, but not for everyone and pretty much never to the point where it's comparable to cis people. if someone doesn't like a certain kind of genitalia that doesn't make them transphobic. stop pushing this delusional shit, it's textbook ammunition for terfs-> inb4 "age is just a number and those are socially constructed as well"
Accept that you don't know what every trans person body looks like and that trans people transition differently.
stop pushing this delusional shit, it’s textbook ammunition for terfs
Fuck you, lmao. All terfs need is to see a trans woman calling herself a woman to spread their filth.
Edit: remember how you got banned from main by saying the n word and the r slur. Who would take you seriously?
Accept that you don’t know what every trans person body looks like and that trans people transition differently.
pretty sure that we all have non-cis genitals in common. that's a reason to not date us for like 90% of the population. also, srs is still really shitty, especially for trans men. if you find a way of changing that, ping me
Edit: remember how you got banned from main by saying the n word and the r slur. Who would take you seriously?
also, you seem to think i'm rachel, that's not the case
No girl, it was the vegan post on main. You said something along the lines of "This is why I still call people the n word" and so. Since then I don't take you seriously and I won't take you in good faith (sorry). You compared anorexics eating animal products to a disabled person with a slave, I made fun of you for not using cocaine as a more honest and similar example.
if i said "r-word" people might mistake it for "r*dditor"
this is also just some dumb american shit, if you don't live there you can't keep up with all the a-z-words at some point. like is the f-word f*ggot or fuck? why not just call things by their name
Watch this: "This is like still using racist and ableist slurs while claiming to care for these issues". Amazing, right. Anyway, go fuck yourself.
you must be fun at parties. wait until you hear i usually call myself a tranny :trans-heart:
You said you're a trans woman, therefore you can reclaim it. Lemmy won't let you tho. Go post it on Reddit or something.
But damn, what parties do you go that you need to say racist and ableist slurs?
referencing a slur is not the same as actually using it. in most parts of the world people recognize that difference.
in most parts of the world people recognize that difference.
Hmm, are you sure they don't just want to say slurs without feeling bad?
stop pushing this delusional shit
this is literally taught in sociology classes how is it fucking delusional lmao. terfs have been anti science forever, of course its ammunition for them.
inb4 “age is just a number and those are socially constructed as well”
i mean literally yes, doesn't mean its okay to have sex with kids tho. pretty shitty gotcha.
this is literally taught in sociology classes how is it fucking delusional lmao
they taught you genital preferences were a social construct? perfectly acceptable to ignore? do you have any idea what would happen if i tell people irl not liking (my) dick is transphobic?
It's not a shitty gotcha, it's transphobia. Why else blame trans women for terfism and compare trans people to p*dophiles? Fuck them.
trans supremacist cult community
i pray to ksenia every night
and, because this site is so not-transphobic, it's the top voted reply in this thread :thonk:
but make sure that when you call attention to it, you really take the time to take care of cis feelings - their egos are rather fragile.
not liking dick is transphobic
hmmmmm, why could 3/4s of LGBT not like this statement? do you live under a rock or something?
wtf does liking or not liking dick have to do with trans people?
because this shitshow of a thread is the age old "genital preferences are transphobic" bullshit. literally everything else can be changed by transition, but genitals kinda stay the same. some people still like to pretend genitals don't matter. spoiler alert: to pretty much every monosexual cis person they do
SRS is literally the oldest surgery we perform. wtf do genitals have to do with attraction to trans people?
- cis people don't know how good srs is or isn't.
- srs still sucks for trans men but it's gotten decent for trans women over the years.
- apriori judgement of a whole category of people on the basis of a quality they may or may not possess is definitionally prejudicial. if you don't know whether you're attracted or not until you've looked at someone's genitals, that's one thing - assumptions about what their genitals look like is something else entirely.
Are you gonna bring out the "Gay means homosexual. And homosexual means same sex attracted, not gender" dogwhistle now?
no, attraction is based on your perception of another person, so gender is the only relevant thing there. but humans aren't blindly following their attractions and when they learn that your genitals don't fit their preference, they usually decide against daiting you.
I guess that one's too on the nose for Miss "I say slurs during vegan debates", huh.
I can't believe you're literally forcing me to fuck a trans person by pointing out my internalized transphobia. This is why the genderists- I mean, transes are oppressed. Uhhh, genital preference? Stop asking me to "respect your body" and "accept that as a lesbian other lesbians will date you lesbianly".
I would hope not, this is the lgbtqia+ community after all
downvotes and comments speak for themselves - anything that challenges cisnormativity is controversial on this site and it's kind of depressing.
I mean the community is literally called anti cishet action, and it's not even a default community. Seriously these people should just unsubscribe if they don't want to see this and interject all the time
I'm just waiting for "this is literally rape" and I'll have bingo.
edit: to the people downvoting the post this reply is to - doe's literally referring to an actual post in this thread that says exactly that, unironically. that post is well-upbeared.
The shape of your SKULL betrays you! Your BONES are different from a normal person!
Better take: tomboys are a most superior form of woman, and femboys are the most superior form of man.
i'm kinda glad the straighties have too bad of a taste to recognize this
tell that to the doctors mutilating intersex babies to make their dicks/vagines look "normal"... sex is as constructed as gender.
the exceptions are the point? we use violence to construct and uphold the binary sex categories.
genitalia are a (primary) sex characteristic. I'm literally telling you that they don't uniquely determine sex. I hope I don't need to further add that sex doesn't determine gender. so what is your point?
People here like: I know what's between your pants, trans. Stop asking me to treat you like a person, you'll make me feel guilty.
Maybe leave some room in your discussion of attraction for that independence.
This is about trans people BTW. Try next post!
if you don't know what's in someone's pants, how do you get to "not wanting to date trans people is fine because genital preferences"? this is nonsense.
the subtext is the generally cisnormative views held by most people that you're literally reinforcing while parading around in costumed allyship.
what fucking status? the subtext is that if you judge a whole group of people as unattractive on the basis of a quality they may or may not possess - and you can't know until you've had a very intimate conversation with a specific person - then you're engaging in internalized bigotry.
The status of allyship.
jesus fucking christ, you care more about your fucking status than what you're actually saying.
By “may or may not possess”, I assume you’re talking about genitalia.
Gender is a social construct but dicks/vagines are not and it’s okay to not be attracted to any of them.
mate, you made this about genitals. and to restate the point one more time: genital preferences don't have a fucking thing to do with attraction to trans people because you can't fucking see them until you've already gotten in their pants.
it's the same deal with any other deal breaker about trans bodies - you fundamentally don't know whether a person is cis or trans until they've told you.
do you really not see the difference between your hypothetical and generalizing that lack of attraction to all trans people? I can't tell if you're being obtuse just to win an argument at all costs or if this is genuinely beyond your capacity to understand.
"I'm not attracted to trans women because I'm not attracted to penises" is transphobic exactly because it's not related to any particular trans person (unlike your hypothetical) and instead an assumption about the bodies of all trans women.
again: assuming something of the whole category that only applies to a subset is definitionally prejudicial.
this is the opposite of where you started this discussion by reaffirming genital preferences as a valid reason to not be attracted to trans people.
The subtext is evil trans people forcing you to perform oral sex on genitals you don't like!
No
Good! Then your original comment is irrelevant to what the post is saying! We love understanding each other.
I made a comment that showed my internalized transphobia and you pointed it out! Whatever shall I do?!
people here more worried about losing woke points than they are about actually spreading bigotry.
mmmmm girldick nomnomnomnom haha no im not a chaser haha tips fedora soooo m'ladies when can i see you at the next dsa meet haha kisses hand
copypasta saved from the old sub ahead
ahem Hello lovely lady. My pronouns are he/him/his. Don’t worry, I’m not like those other cis white men haha. Cis get the bullet! Mayocide! Hehe. You should check out my reddit account. I’ve gotten a lot of karma from owning tankies and doing funny bits. But sometimes I can be a bit of a goofball troll too. Yesterday, I went on the_donald and told those chuds to post hog and they banned me haha! A subreddit enforcing its rules, priceless! Sounds like they need a safe space. Not that there is anything wrong with safe spaces though! I think I’m a lot like the twitter account dril when I troll the chuds. Have you heard of dril? That’s D-R-I-L. It’s a pretty crazy twitter account that says silly stuff that you can repeat verbatim to own people. Corncob haha! You should look it up. It’s dumb but hilarious. Whoops sorry, I shouldn’t be using ableist words like dumb. How careless of me. Anywho, have you ever heard of a band called death grips? PRETTY PRETTY NINE MOTHERFUCKER! Haha that’s a death grip lyric reference. Whoops, now everyone is staring at me because I used my outside voice hehe. What’s that? You need to go to the bathroom? If you’d like, I could follow you to make sure no chuds give you any trouble for going in your preferred bathroom because that is my chivalrous duty. Wait, where are you going?! Just a pint of mouthfeel before you go? Please ma’am, might I just have a microwatt of girldick?
Yes, saying that you "won't date a trans person" is transphobic. No, nobody actually cares if you would fuck a trans person. Yes, you can still be transphobic if you date and have sex with trans people. This debate ends up focusing on cis people's feelings instead of what trans people say: "respect our body, our gender and sexuality and our partner/s' gender and sexuality".
Edit: I want the cis person downvoting every comment to know that you're smelly and dumb.
I think there's a distinction to be made between a descriptive preference vs a prescriptive preference, where the former is when you're just attracted to whoever and if it includes/excludes some people then that's out of your control (which would include being exclusively gay or straight), and the latter is considering some groups to be more inherently worthy of your attraction.
I'll admit it, I don't find most trans women attractive (and less likely to than with cis women), some I would date, but there is a preference that I know I shouldn't have.
Should we have other physical/biological preferences, if so why but not here? Is the preference okay if you want to have children?
How do you know that a woman is trans if she doesn't tell you? How do you know that a woman is cis if she doesn't tell you? That's about it, really. That and don't call yourself gay for dating a trans woman or hide her from your family/friends.
Sometimes you can tell if someone is trans, especially if you know their gender, and especially with less clothes on. It's unfortunate but it's not impossible to at least predict who's cis and not
You didn't get the point but that's ok. I'm not coming to this community back on purpose for a loong time.
I really don't mean any harm and I'm sorry to hear that. Is the community not accepting enough or is it something else?
Too much transphobia on this thread. This little self-awareness is unacceptable in an "LGBT" community. I'm not interested in cishets being coddled in this space, yall treated it with no difference from c/main.
Didn't even notice what community it was on, think I was browsing all. I'll keep an eye out in the future before posting. I'm not familiar with the comm but guessing this might not be the place to question stances like this as a cishet rather than discussing it on main or something
Gender roles are socially constructed, but I do believe there's a biological basis for dysphoria. Physical dysphoria can't be cured only with social transition. Not only that, there's a biological basis for attraction as well. Yeah, I definitely hate people who hide behind a smoke screen of "trans people can do whatever they want, but I'm not dating them," (they'd probably be attracted to trans people if they knew anyone irl) but attraction isn't a choice.
Gender is a social construct but you still live in society and get your preferences from that society. Even if it's backwards, I don't think you can force yourself into something you're not into.
It doesn't work like that. I can't force myself to be gay even though there's nothing wrong with being gay and probably would make my life easier.
I can’t force myself to be gay even though there’s nothing wrong with being gay and probably would make my life easier.
A real LGBT ally
I'm making fun of their homophobia btw. Dismissing gay people's struggles is not cute, much less when you use it to be transphobic.
Back in my time called that LGBTphobia.
What's the problem here though? I could have a relationship with a trans person but penises are not something I'm interested in. What can I possibly do to change that?
What can I possibly do?
Stop assuming that you know anyone's genitals. That you have to be gay or bisexual to be okay with a set of genitals. That anyone cares about your sex life.
Are you sure you're not a transmisogynist troll?
No, I just seriously don't understand. I would love to understand where you're coming from.
Eventually, in a relationship, you'll come to the point where you'll interact with your partner's genitals right?
Like in the hypothetical situation where I don't know my partner's genitals, eventually in the evolution of the relationship, the topic will come up. Couples have sex- I am not interested in the male sex organ. What can I do to get around that?
Yeah, I think I'd be fine with a trans woman who doesn't have a penis. You're kind of lighting me up with things I'm not saying.
I apologize that I don't have the most nuanced understanding to the entirety of the issue nor the full conveyance of my personal position on demand. I can imagine the topic is very infuriating to you, especially when people don't relate to it the same way you do.
the point of the OP is that you don't know until you've talked to a specific person about their personal situation in a very intimate context - so when you apriori judge the entire group as unattractive because of a quality they may or may not possess, you're engaging in transphobia.
Yeah I agree with you, but I think the topic is pretty complex and comes pretty loaded with a lot of background knowledge that everyone seems to be expected to just know.
I don't think it's fair to be put in that situation where no one understands a massive and depressing personal issue-- but at the same time I don't think it's fair to expect and demand that everyone understands or be able to expound on the complete nuance of a complicated topic.
Cis people experience cis-ness and can only experience being cis, they don't have a choice in that. Considering how small the trans community is, most cis probably rarely or if ever interact with trans people. So if I'm not clear on something, it's because it's not a lived experience for me to speak to, not because of transphobia.
I don’t think it’s fair to expect and demand that everyone understands or be able to expound on the complete nuance of a complicated topic
Well, this is an LGBT community. The least I would expect is no transphobia and no homophobia. You have failed both and I hope my downvote shames you into being an ally.
what you're describing is called cisnormativity - the presumption that cis people, cis bodies, are normal and that trans people are transgressing and abnormal. the point of this thread is to challenge that notion. cisnormativity is transphobia and it hurts trans people. imagine what it feels like to walk into a thread where everyone is talking about how they don't find you attractive without ever having laid eyes on you because of an abstract quality and factor of your birth.
think about this like race: everyone is transphobic (including trans people) until they've done a lot of work to recognize those tendencies within themselves and root them out. this is necessarily so because we live in a deeply transphobic society and most of the things we're taught about trans people reinforce that societal transphobia. the same way we'd never make excuses for casual racism, we shouldn't make excuses for casual transphobia.
I didn't say that trans people are transgressive or abnormal though. I did say that cis people are the overwhelming majority for better or worse. That's just a fact, I think there are a lot of repressed people out there as well. So I don't like it but it is what it is.
Please stop fixing these values that are not representative of me.
Please stop fixing these values that are not representative of me.
Everybody is transphobic and everybody believes in these "values", even trans people. You have to actively fight against that in order to get rid of that.
Internalized transphobia is the reason you made the first (transphobic) comment. Same goes to homophobia.
I'm not saying you literally said that, I'm talking about a whole family of ideas that stems from that belief.
cis and trans are made up categories that only exist because of the violence done to trans people. saying most people are cis us like saying most Americans are white - well, yeah, but the point is how that happened.
again: would you react to someone pointing out racism in your comments the same way? this site's fragility is something else.
that's fine but to @gay's point, I'm addressing your internalized transphobia and asking you to work on it.
- asking trans people to mind cis feelings in calling out their bullshit (I'm especially annoyed at the suggestion that basic empathy is too much to ask for because cis people don't share our experiences). this is cisnormative.
- the belief at the root of your original post saying that not being attracted to trans people is natural. this is also cisnormative.
Well, I'm kind of seeing you two bully this entire thread, even other trans people. There's a lot "if x then y" accusations you're making which is unfair. As you read the thread, clearly "y" is not what the person often if ever meant. It gives no faith to the person you're talking to, which in turn makes them obviously defensive. Which you pre-emptively attack them for.
When you talk to any human being, it's not acceptable to do these kinds of things. This isn't just a cis-fragility thing, this one is on you too.
- I didn't say that. You filled in the blanks with the worst possible version that you're currently were already upset about, in a very vague statement which I have since clarified.
You don't seem to understand that "cis person dating a trans person" is irrelevant. Saying that you wouldn't date a trans person is transphobic (you make assumptions on their bodies, how they have sex, what they look like) but dating or having sex with trans people is not the way you fix that.
Just think about the way cishet men will have sex and brutalize trans women and still refuse to acknowledge their womanhood (because, misogyny).
If you want to be a better ally, know that not making assumptions is your duty.
But in reality, this argument (original post) is not about a cis person looking for a new trans date. It's about cis people accepting that trans people are their gender, that their bodies are not wrong and that they know what their sexuality is (a trans woman is a woman and she can be a lesbian). AND that the people they're dating/having sex with are not a different sexuality/making an "exception" or that they're secretly trans themselves (cis lesbians dating trans women are lesbians regardless of her partner's body).
I don't disagree with any of that though. I don't think I made any assumptions, I just didn't expound to the nuance you need from me.
And I never said I wouldn't date a trans person, but I did say that if a relationship progressed, male sex organ would be something not for me. And of course, that's not something you can just know.
but I did say that if a relationship progressed, male sex organ would be something not for me.
Irrelevant comments be like:
The original post was that having a preference between cis and trans women is transphobic. I agree, having a preference on illusionary bullshit is phobic. I stated that if a relationship progressed to the point of sex, male sex organ is not for me and that I can't change it.
I think where the problem is that I skipped a lot of details to where that conclusion is relevant and just focused on my personal boundaries (mostly because I thought this was main- not somewhere where I needed to be very clear and concise.)
Yeah, that makes sense. But I'm still gonna need you to accept the internalized transphobia part.
In the most loving and honest possible way to express this: Why?
