Warning: extremely toxic thread
I thought there was an antiwork community here? Anyways I'm not sure where to put this. Just kinda sucks that the interview didn't go well and that people are shitting on this person and misgendering her for not being a white male factory worker or something.
/r/antiwork is kind of in shambles rn because the mods are trying keep the discourse from spinning out of control but a ton of people there are being transphobic and turning on the mods, and of course the mods are being accused of being authoritarian for trying to run the sub.
I hope the sub can bounce back, but it's a dark day in there for sure.
It's what it always seems to come down to. You court the anti-tankie hysteria, and you get chewed up yourself.
Couldn't they just submit a professional headshot and do audio only? I've seen plenty of audio only interviews on live tv. Is that just not done anymore?
while i probably would just pigpoopballs the interview… we should not be so quick to forget that a lot of the proletariat are working people watching fox news. people who deep down know they are exploited by their bosses, people who know something is wrong. we need to convince them. we do. no one wants to admit it but if we want working class solidarity and class war, those are our allies and we need to get through to them.
this was an opportunity to do that and the worst possible outcome is happening because of this reddit mod.
a paid dog walker is like someone wants to be as close to petty bourgeois lifestyle but don't actually have the means.
one of the things people have to learn from all the rabid anti-tankie shit is either a. authority is good actually or b. at least have the baseline of what is authoritarian not be "any kind of decision that doesn't have full 100% approval of every isolated member of the org." This is a completely self defeating definition of authority.
:porky-happy: "But you're not a slave, why don't you peasants just quit your jobs and happily starve".
She started talking about lazyness when she should have just talked about wage-slavery and union busting.
Practice your speeches goddamit.
It's not a speech. It's a lack of experience debating with someone who is adversarial. They took all the questions at face value and allowed themselves to be controlled. The smug host has a lot of experience doing this. He is very well versed in his rhetoric and practiced in controlling guests. That's why he's the host on Fox. They needed someone who was practiced in controlling a debate to go on that show.
Yeah this is like the most basic of dumb capitalist 'arguments' and she was just totally unable present a proper response. That said, accepting to go on in the first place was the real mistake.
I think you can outflank these dickheads pretty easy by just being honestly radical (and probably using the correct body language and the deserved level of aggresion). She could have started with "oooh woow I've never thouth about that before, you genius, you just solve the life of ~100 M muricans!" and then recited "the most wretched of commodities"/Stalin's quote on "personal liberties", while looking the idiot dead in the eye, and if they haven't cut her mic already, just recite statistics of deaths by insulin rationing. Of course, the lizard would interrupt her and weasel out with some other shit, but this is not about winning a debate against a slug not worth a bullet, it's about publicity of their cause. But then again, they don't yet have a solid cause.
then recited Stalin’s quote on “personal liberties”
Sure, if it was us doing it. But since it's Stalin and also the way PRC views human rights, it's impossible for a mod of antiwork.
Who the hell thought this was a good idea to go onto Fox News?
The moderator named "AbolishWork" did. The community voted to have no interviews whatsoever with the media, so it's a case of a moderator seizing the moment to do whatever that was.
Get a better control over the community and might as well be authoritarian mods
I think the problem is, a moderator went AWOL, and there is no real coherent ideology behind r/antiwork anymore so there's nothing to defend there. I think it was vaguely anarchist in the past but it has become a general labor grievance subreddit. It is a place to radicalize people into leftists, but has no real agenda or movement of people behind it besides posting. They've honestly been behind some labor destructive things (this incident not included) like the fake general strikes that have gotten people to pester the IWW with redditors who wound up not actually being interested in organizing.
The mods are anti-tankie anarchists who think "MLs are just ignorant of mutual aid". It's not surprising something like this happened.
I question if they're even anarchists, they just seem to be kids raised on social media and they post "GENERAL STRIKE ON 4/20/69 MARK UR CALENDARS" and expect that to be the extent of labor organizing necessary. Flash mob labor organizing.
The fact even these idiots managed to get a sub that big without it imploding long before now is a good sign that people are becoming aware. Lots of good energy building up.
the recuperation of the term anarchist is awful tbh. Typical fash/lib shit, twisting terms until they're completely useless for discourse and just make everything incoherent where you can't talk about issues accurately but ugh its obnoxious.
It sucks because my discovery of /r/antiwork a few years ago was key to my movement leftward.
Things like antiwork come and go. I remember when I thought Occupy Wall St was really gonna go somewhere!
I don’t mean to diminish the transphobia present, or from the typical reddit shitfest.
but. they deserve a LOT of the disappointment facing them. this was 100% a fuck up. they never should have been on that show, and that mod has no place in any leadership role or public facing role.
WE NEED TO DO BETTER. we do not win a war with mealy mouthed losers. the proletariat are strong, we work hard, we deserve and need representation that actually showcases that.
this was a completely pathetic interview that just destroyed a million plus member strong movement. in one fell swoop. i do not exaggerate how bad this is for the left.
yes we want to make sure everyone had a place, that people like that mod have a place in society and are not forced to labour for someone else’s profits but this is so so so so bad. to the point where it could genuinely be an op because it was so perfectly terrible.
i hope my comment isn’t taken poorly, i do not want to disparage anyone unjustly. this is not an attack on anyone’s identity, but on their ACTIONS.
I have no idea who this person is but I will say there is a very good reason why organizations usually have only one person designated to answer media questions. Too many people simply cannot handle the heat of an interview, especially a hostile one.
It's pretty generous to call antiwork a movement, which is precisely why you get some rando on Fox representing it
no dude, not every criticism of someone turns on their neurotypicality. the mod had a poor showing -- hence OP's language. i don't see how it (the language) turned on the mod being autistic or not (are autistic people of such a delicate and protected class that they can't be criticized on the merits? i shouldn't think so; that would be "ableist".)
Do you think it's a bit counterproductive to gatekeep autism and act like NDs are completely helpless when it comes to changing their behavior? A lot of what they did seems to just be a bad decision. This seems to teeter on learned helplessness and actually be ableist in and of itself
seriously...
Going up against the behemoth that is US capital is hard enough, let alone when you get people infighting and harping on 'mealy mouthed loser'. Who the fuck cares.
This mod did a terrible job. I judge them based on how they handled the interview---and they were extremely ill-prepared.
well well well, looks like even the mods here are insistent on holding the thin-mod line.
wimps.
you can be both. i personally know people with asd who can handle themselves well in front of a camera, i’m sure we all do. you can have autism and be a loser, or you can have autism and not be a loser.
stop making excuses for someone. they fucked up. they are a loser. identity or disability notwithstanding.
i hope the head mod is doing ok. i think its a pretty big mistake to go on a major outlet as a trans person when you arent 10000% secure in your positions, viewpoints, and where you are in your transition. like i wouldnt do it without having all my surgeries finished personally, mentally i need my transition to be 'complete' for anything like that. also seems like they had no experience in actually talking with someone irl about this stuff
its also a bad choice to do a call from home and not get dressed up/done up for the call. a lot of politics is optics unfortunately so if you dont even attempt to put on something fancy everyone will just think the person who put more effort in is correct
i kinda think its risk taking behavior, especially with how theyre responding to the situation. hope theyre doing right mentally :soviet-heart:
this person should never have taken a position of leadership. this is embarrassing.
I don’t really care if people thought I should have presented myself better.
Based. Fuck society's bullshit expectations. So what I don't stare into your eyes? So what I make myself comfortable by wearing comfy clothes and rocking in my chair? How does that affect you? How does that affect our conversation?
Making a fool of yourself on the premier propaganda outlet of Capitalism is an unforced error. And calling it an unforced error is extremely, extremely generous.
"Making a fool of yourself."
That's ableist bullshit. There's nothing "foolish" about not glaring someone in the eyes constantly, there's nothing foolish about wearing comfortable casual clothes, and there's nothing foolish about rocking for comfort.
What's foolish is expecting people to conform to some bullshit standards that make no difference to the conversation.
When you go to war you don't argue with the clouds about the weather. If it's raining it's raining. Refusing to so much as comb your hair and put on a nice shirt is doing the enemy's work for them. If you don't like it then don't put yourself in a leadership role, or put yourself out as spokesperson for a movement.
"You must conform to societal expectations before you speak out against societal expectations."
Do you not realize how bullshit that is?
Also their hair looks perfectly fine. I've seen Bernie's hair wilder and nobody (besides a couple libs on Twitter maybe) said he lost credibility because of it. And their shirt is just a black hoodie, like completely neutral.
I'm fully aware that it's bullshit, and I also understand that it doesn't matter. The only reason to do a mass media interview is for propaganda purposes. For that propaganda to be effective you need to pander to the expectations of your audience. Refusing to do so is egoistic foolishness.
This is specifically about opposing capitalism though, which includes opposing its shitty ableist norms.
I already deleted it a few seconds after I wrote it because of that
that make no difference to the conversation.
" that make no difference to the conversation."
it made a huge difference to the conversation regarding the interview lol. clearly.
The interview was a mistake. What's ableist is saying it's because they weren't looking at the camera, were rocking, or wore a comfy hoodie.
it made a huge difference to the conversation regarding the interview lol. clearly.
It makes no difference to the interview, to the conversation about anti-work.
well i wish i lived in your world where optics are made up and fake. however half the conversation is about how unprepared they were including presentation. does it materially matter? no. does it matter to 95% of the conversation people are having related to this interview? yes. it does. whether you think that its right or not
however half the conversation is about how unprepared they were including presentation.
Except the presentation wouldn't have mattered if they were actually prepared to answer questions, that's the point. That "95% of the conversation people are having related to this interview" is abelism, that's the point.
And fuck your "optics". "Optics" is lib shit used to put down people who don't conform.
ok well best of luck organizing a nation changing strike with total disregard for even basic PR in the capitalist hegemonic core. hope it works out
This is literally idealism.
Good for you that you think it shouldn't matter and I agree, but it does matter. This was incredibly stupid and arrogant.
its a pretty big mistake to go on a major outlet
I can't think of any reason to ever do an interview with Fox in any capacity, ever. Not even any funny reasons.
and of course the mods are being accused of being authoritarian for trying to run the sub.
Glad their anti-Tankie crusade is paying off :lenin-laugh:
Antiwork is legitimately the biggest disappointment since the George Floyd protests fizzled out.
:what-the-hell: you cant be serious
I just find it crazy that you would consider a subreddit being extremely ineffective in organizing a large scale strike on the top 20 of list of things to be disappointed by.
its a subreddit.
relax chief, i just dont think antiwork started any of this and is a side effect of actual material conditions from poor labor conditions. the vast majority of people arent looking to organize because of a subreddit, and even on the subreddit it was constant bickering over even basic lefty stances. it had no direction from the start.
Not a big surprise I saw some people wanting to flee to another subreddit called /r/workreform lol
Libs everyone. Just like the slide from "abolish the police" to "defund the police", all you got to do is water down the message enough that nobody could fucking care anymore.
Supposedly Fox messaged the mods and specifically requested to interview the head mod who had already done at least one disastrous media appearance before. The Fox team picked the perfect person for a repeat performance.
They seemed young and given that they're a radlib "anarchist" they just haven't got much underpinning their arguments (I say this as an anarchist myself). Also I'm sure no small amount of self aggrandizement was involved. You'd think anybody on the "left" would have the forethought to be suspicious of being specifically picked by Fox News as their preferred interviewee, but... I guess not.
Yeah, I certainly wouldn't have done it and I'm a cis white male that would look largely like a chud in a video call, they're definitely not lacking in confidence.
Fox News is adept at finding the most self-assured dorky losers to platform. That is half their job and said dorky losers never realize it.
I’ve been hoping the sub would implode because it’s crawling with anarcho-bidenists.
me too, but not like this.
You may get your wish. Lot's of users (brigaders?) at antiwork are trying to bully them off the mod team in this thread. Replace them with mods friendly to capital, take the sub private, or just find mods toxic to the ethos of the group and they can tank the sub.
While I hope she is in a good place, she deserves a lot of the criticism coming her way for the way she handled the interview as a representative of so many people.
This is what happens when you don't know any theory and this is what happens when you lack discipline. Discipline should be an imperative for all leftists. For as much as I agree with the ragging of social norms, presentation and preparation absolutely matter when you're trying to win the hearts and minds of people on the fence. And even the most fervent anarchist acknowledges the need for leadership. Leadership is important not just in the use of cliches.
What she did was extremely disappointing, I'm not going to lie. She could have simply refused to take the interview with Fox News of all networks, or just pigpoopballed the entire interview. The most heinous thing here is that this Fox scumbag didn't have to show his heinous true self, he let her dig her own grave.
she deserves a lot of the criticism coming her way for the way she handled the interview as a representative of so many people.
She's an unpaid moderator of a social media sub-page. She deserves a bit of criticism for thinking she could handle a national interview. But the whole interview was set up to clown on the community. Jessie Waters is just doing Steven Crowder tier shit.
She could have simply refused to take the interview with Fox News of all networks, or just pigpoopballed the entire interview.
This obviously unsavvy person was selected because she was obviously unsavvy.
Would have been way more entertaining if she'd had Felix-tier energy. But Felix-tier entertainers don't waste their days doing unpaid mod work to help Reddit investors make money.
The only way people should deal with boomer media is trolling them like the birds aren't real guy https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdhAdTAQ/
I thought there was an antiwork community here?
They are anti-tankie and have been banning moderators of any communist spaces or socialist subs they have decided are "run by tankies" if they see them in the comments.
This mod specifically refused to unban me when I was banned for literally doing nothing wrong, just normal activity. Reason given: Tankie.
I'm fairly sure that their modteam was infiltrated by people meaning to do it harm and then because they're so naive it was very easily picked apart internally.
This person was i think the second mod ever of the subreddit? A veeeery early mod
Yes they're safely not a fed.
I think the next steps that will be taken will be to continuously try to push the buttons of this mod until they emotionally break. They probably never expected it to become this when they started out.
Once the top mod is out of the way via quitting for emotional/health reasons the infighting can ramp up and picking apart the hierarchy by bad actors can occur. They can systematically generate drama that damages the sub and team and pick apart any momentum that the movement had.
They are 100% in the crosshairs of the right, hedgefunds and the state. Infiltration will play out alongside other methods of attack and they have no idea what they're dealing with. The emotionally vulnerable human element of this situation is the easiest part to attack.
I'm certain that if this top mod steps down it'll be a disaster, regardless of their naivity or obvious lack of experience organising, they absolutely must stay in that position on the modlist and everything must be done to encourage them not to quit it.
If I were in this team I'd be calling for a very serious internal purge as well. The modlist needs reverting all the way back to at least before jack-the-rah was added, probably further. They also need to stop all moderation additions and do them via headhunting of trustworthy figures instead, with trust as the primary factor in recruitment.
I honestly think they are well past the point of no return though. All the fixes that are necessary would also drive so much drama that would kill it anyway.
:shrug-outta-hecks:
Not sure but he's fucked now because every single mod on this modteam is getting tarred and feathered for allowing this to happen.
Sucks, and they don’t deserve the bigotry, no matter how hard they bombed the interview. :reddit-logo: back at it again with uncritically repeating Fox News talking points.
this is why you read theory though. In an environment cultivated to be hostile to your very ideology you need to be ready and able to snap back precisely and quickly to all of the malicious arguments directed at you to make you look like a fool to the common person, and like 50% of theory is just “here is what you say when a chud goes full vuvuzela iphone on you.” You read it, it sticks in your brain, you reference it.
I’m speaking from a neurodivergent perspective here too. Being caught unaware is one of the worst things to happen in a social situation and people tend to flounder when that happens, which is bad optics. I have ADHD, one of the most debilitating cases of it I know of, but when it comes to theory I consider myself one of the top 20% on this site for backlog alone, since it’s my hyperfocus.
I get why it might be hard for people to read theory, but this is case numero uno on why you have to do it before you even think of representing the movement publicly. Otherwise, decline the interview. You have to know when you’re not qualified to do things. Neurodivergent hyper-self-awareness choosing the worst times not to kick in, fucking sucks.
The bigotry is what's really killing me here. I'm trans too and it's so disheartening seeing libs just lap that shit up with all of the intentional misgendering and snide remarks. Like fuck off, if a poc messed up the interview would just start calling them racial slurs? (This is :reddit-logo: of course they would)
Whole thing is a mess. It's disgusting that so many are flocking straight to transphobic and ableist shit. I have no idea why they agreed to go on Fox news and they are not handling the valid criticisms well.
I have no idea why they agreed to go on Fox news and they are not handling the valid criticisms well.
My guess is the influence of the known :fedposting: on their mod team tbh
Fox apparently asked for them specifically, and the rest of the most team encouraged them to do the interview. I feel bad for her, being setup like this by people I'm almost certain she thought were her friends.
Oof, yeah. Feel bad for anyone who gets taken advantage of by cops and feds.
Libs will pretend not to be transphobic until a trans person does something bad or stupid and the mask just flies straight off their face.
:wojak-nooo: Y-you think you should be paid $60 an hour, 4 hours a day, 20 hours a week to be a dog walker?!
:yes-chad:
Most likely from a wealthy family and went to a nice university too, to go on tv and bemoan about blue haired college aged SJWs ruining our got danged manhood. The irony is rich. That's the rub with the right, boater kulaks larping as working class.
Ugh I'm a worker but even I think you should be paid peanuts 😤
Yes, pick me daddy capitalist!
The interview itself was :dumpster-fire: the black panther "I don't speak to media" is a great idea we should bring back, it's just bad optics to talk to media if you're not a principled theoretician.
bad optics to talk to media if you’re not a principled theoretician.
and also able to avoid verbal traps with off the cuff comedy
