https://xcancel.com/OldManNikolai/status/1813854659704246450
My grey matter refuses to process whatever is happening here. I will simply continue to not look at twitter.
Some binary and passing trans people get upset when they're in queer spaces and asked for their pronouns or referred to as "they/them" before someone knows their pronouns because in non queer spaces, people assume their gender based off appearance and gender them appropriately (because theyre binary and passing). These people think even in queer spaces you should assume peoples gender based off appearance because it makes them personally feel good to be gendered correctly without having to explain themselves
This doesn't go over well with non passing or non binary trans people for the obvious reasons
"Some of you might be misgendered, but that's a risk I'm willing to take"
Okay I'm not that offline, I am a non binary and a trans people.I think I was happier when I did not understand that this Twitter® Screenshot™ is just binies getting up in arms over jack shit, again. Like hey, didn't Contrapoints do exactly this bit about feelin sad people use they/them and wanting to get presumptively gendered correctly? Twitter needs new material.
It disappointing but not surprising that some binary trans people are okay with transphobia if they benefit from it
didn't Contrapoints do exactly this bit about feelin sad people use they/them and wanting to get presumptively gendered correctly?
i think that was one of these bits that's secretly sincere.
Contrapoints
I didn't have my glasses on and read this as "Constantinople" and was confused about what is being discussed here
I'm 100% with you on this. I'd rather watch sword/fencing videos instead.
Gotta love how the truscummy "I hate it when people ask for pronouns because people should just base your pronouns on how you look!" take conveniently neglects the existence of androgynous people.
Ah an unstoppable force (pronoun circles) meets an immovable object (trans women getting clocked and subsequently degendered), producing a new kind of Twitter discourse where everyone is fundamentally incapable of understanding each other.
Like something that's not being brought up here is: it's easier to pass in cisciety than to be stealth in a queer meetup. So are the cis men and women in your LGBT group being they/them'd and asked their pronouns, or is that being subconsciously reserved for the transgender men and women who get clocked? I think both sides of this debate are assuming different fundamentals here.
People think I'm a cishet ally too much it drives me nuts. Why are my vibes so fucked
But I've also had the situation where the cissies pronoun circle so the removed (me) would spill the beans
and then they want brownie points for being allies. Either do these intro things consistently or have the courtesy to tremble before a trans person when you ask them
or is that being subconsciously reserved for the transgender men and women who get clocked
this is my overwhelming experience with any group that doesnt have trans leadership. It reached the point where some cis woman turned to me and my partner, looked at us for half a second and said "we should do introductions, with pronouns". Mind you, I had shaken hands with everybody about two hours ago.
The consequence from this obv isnt that passology is good, lol. This whole thing sounds super heated to me and people seem to extrapolate the other side having the worst possible assumptions and beliefs from every statement to score cheap dunks and feel good.
This is exactly it. Like, I have a good friend who gets gendered correctly pretty regularly in cishet spaces but just gets misgendered/degendered constantly in queer spaces. It's getting harder for me to get her to hang out with my in queer spaces as a result. Her presentation is not queer
I stopped going to a queer meetup where I used to live because I was constantly they/them’d despite everyone knowing I only used she/her. When I brought this up with the group, a couple of them told me, “nobody can be misgendered by neutral pronouns”
some of the replies to that quoted tweet are amazing, "just pass harder, idiot" damn, thank you for the pro-tip ma'am, i haven't considered that
According to many of the replies, we do, in fact, owe everyone androgyny
duck dynasty beard, skirt that is obviously not a kilt
/s
Well I don't know about you, but my plan is to adorn my clothes with a shit ton of bells in reference to the single sentence description of the Sons of Frey in Gesta Danorum, which is to my knowledge the only surviving textual evidence of third-gender priests in pre-Christian Scandinavia. Of course most people wouldn't get the reference but that's their problem not mine
brb, building an orbital strike cannon that fires copies of Julia Serano's Whipping Girl at people who post bad-faith pronoun discourse
Alternatively, hire a guy to belt out your pronouns like hes reading royal titles
Honestly I'm drunk as hell right now (on company time). We have cool little stickers at our lgbt center
Honestly I'm drunk as hell right now (on company time)
me
kristinaDrinking on the clock
Got caught twice, once because a manager smelled beer on my breath right after a break, once because an asshole coworker tried to snitch on me. First time I was told I was gonna get fired if it happened again, second time I didn't get fired because they can't actually tell I am buzzed and I am too good at my job to actually follow through on the first threat lol.
Like motherfucker you try working the register 40 hours a week sober.
I used to be allowed to drink on the job as a bartender, one of the better perks of the job
Can't do that now as a delivery driver but at least I always get free meals from the place I just delivered to, the beans were better last time but the mac and cheese is fantastic
Well to be fair if your job is driving you definitely should not drink while doing it lol.
My dream job is bartender. It's so hard to get into though with zero experience. Like I worked one time as a bus boy 25 years ago and that is as close as I have ever been to breaking into that industry.
I think maybe when I get back from my Pine Ridge trip I might just try to find an entry point. Where I live you can make a FUCKLOAD of money as a bartender.
It's a college/tourist town.
This all started because Catboy removedry said that using "they/them" if you are unsure is perfectly reasonable and not necessarily transphobic.
We all know some people use it in a cynical way but the thing that kicked off this whole discourse was just about how to address people who you don't know their preferred pronouns and it might not be safe or acceptable to just outright ask.
Edit: lol got
by the slur filter oops.I've been in FFXIV too much because that read absolutely cromulently to me and my ribs are in orbit.
Hot take, the slur filter doesn't understand context, and as a result, clamps down on various kinds of queer slang. And I think that's cringe.
Like, look at this section from My Gender Workbook by Kate Bornstien, where trans people are describing their experience of gender:
Show
These are beautiful, amazing, and I absolutely adore every single one!
But the Hexbear slur filter would butcher these so bad, they'd read like a Papa Roach radio edit
subversive queermonger
-monger never disappoints, fucking gathering up all the queer into a big pile. for evil 
I'd prefer to be "they'd" over being asked, but in queer spaces, I'm okay with it.
The default "they" is just easiest for everyone involved. Its not reasonable to exchange pronouns in every single minor interaction with everybody.
Or their name? Pretty easy not to misgender someone if you just use their name.
What if they have a gender neutral name, or a name in a language not yours, this is still assuming the gender based on the name
No just use name instead of pronoun
So "she's the worst" becomes "Gary's the worst"
That's gonna make certain conversations in the English language unwieldily as fuck
The key word point is "certain conversations", not all conversations. So its probably going to be fine most of the time.
You're probably correct that most time, you'd figure out the persons pronouns before such a conversation came up. I'm just saying it's not a good long term solution since the English language is pretty reliant on pronouns.
Fair point but it does seem we're reliant on pronouns less out of necessity and more out of habit.
Are their languages that don't use pronouns at all? I'm not familiar with any, it'd make it difficult to discuss a person when you don't know their name.
...discuss a person when ...
-
Hey, you know that person we met last night?
-
Suzie, could you go help that person standing over there by the deli counter?
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So do you know the name of the new cashier?
-
I was supposed to have a group meeting with the classmate that usually sits next to me.
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When will the mechanic be done working on my car?
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I'm expecting a call from an insurance agent.
Seems pretty easy to me.
Fair enough, I guess old habits die hard.
Maybe we should just call everyone "Gary".
Always a pleasure chatting with you, Gary. :gary:
(need to find some emotes and name them "Gary" now)
-
Some people are really good at just using names. It's a skill.
Honestly I struggle with remembering names so that strategy seems too advanced for me
Either I didn't read it right or the other person edited it after I commented idk
Repetition is the key to remembering someone's name
These people need to interact with a real person in real life. It is not healthy to spend any amount of time on twitter crying about pronouns. That's what conservatives do.
People who discriminate against non-passing trans people fucking suck (I think they're called truscum?)
I think truscum are more anti-nonbinary and don't recognize you as trans unless you fully transition and do all your power to assimilate into one of the 2 genders, but I haven't been in truscum spaces for a few years now
Truscum is usually hostile against nonbinary people, usually pathologizes transness (dysphoria as a proof of validity), is usually highly assimilationist and usually favors some form of medical and legal gatekeeping, but some of these may be softened up depending on the truscum in question.
Requirements to "fully" transition, to be straight or to buy into the claim that you actually are or at least used to be your AGAB are rarer nowadays, but they're still around.
Wait is 'folks' not acceptable or is this commenter being hyperbolic? This has been in my vocabulary for my whole life.
There used to be (might still be?) a "folx" contingent but I think most people have concluded (correctly in my book) that "folks" is perfectly gender neutral as is
I don't think it's transphobic to they/them everyone until you know what their gender is but I totally get wanting people to assume my gender correctly. I want that pretty bad honestly. But like I don't pass at all so If everyone did this they would probably misgender me constantly
Honest question; Is all this concern and 'worry' about misgendering kind of the problem? I don't want to misgender but in a random meeting with some one i just met if I accidentally misgender and am corrected I'll apologize and not do it again. (Also working on just dropping gendered terms)
I feel like ppl are trying to make it seem like crazy hard to do.
I've accidently dead named friends that I meet before transitioning. I apologize.
Am I the asshole?
I don't think you're an asshole or even did anything wrong, but yes it does hurt some people. Really depends on person to person but like, when you get misgendered it means you're being perceived as the wrong gender. When everyone does this every day it absolutely grinds me down and just saps all hope from me.
Like, I have to go basically sit in my room and be like, will there ever be a time when I'm not just perceived as some man in a dress or something? It does hurt. And I don't want people gendering me correctly to be some laborious process for them. I don't want people to have to try. I know it's not realistic
But also I definitely understand that it's not the fault of the people perceiving me, it's just reality.
I don't want to misgender but in a random meeting with some one i just met if I accidentally misgender and am corrected I'll apologize and not do it again. (Also working on just dropping gendered terms)
Nah you're good.
Sentiment matters. It only matters when someone intended it, or when someone is clearly not trying and has made the mistake many times even after being told. The latter gets a bit murky and comes down to effort.
It's so weird how cis people handle their fear of misgendering - I went in to the doc the other day, and the nurse was prefacing asking me about my pronouns with a long drawn out explanation about why they were asking. I told them they really don't need to preface the question in a professional setting like that, it's a normal question that you can just ask.
Its very odd to me, but i dont know how that people dont interact with trans people? Like, do they just not talk to people and even just exchange pleasantries? You should know when its safe to assume pronouns and when to ask, and trans people arnt an exclusively weird and defensive type of people that are just going to scream in your face when you ask what their pronouns are or get their pronouns wrong on accident.
Its fucking ridiculous propaganda that the rightwing has made it apparent that trans people are stereotyped as such and really just shows that people should talk to more people than that.
People need to chill out.
Exactly! Most people just think of some public freak out tiktac that was probably staged.
terrible bit tbh.
I envy your inner calm
