do they really want us to all hold hands and stand by the just war to finally settle the nato expansion once and for all

Nobody here is "justifying" anything, justification is a process undertaken by an individual in response to their own actions and none of us are in control of the Russian invasion. We're analyzing cause and effect.

Cause: US undermine the USSR and handpick Putin.
Effect: Putin takes advantage and rebuilds Russia with a focus on national capitalism rather than allowing the exploitation of western companies to pillage the country.

Cause: US handpicks Ukraine's government after a coup and makes it anti-Russia, and then Ukraine starts bombarding Donbass.
Effect: Tensions raise dramatically.

Cause: NATO, an anti-Russian alliance in all but name, begins encroaching closer and closer to Russia's territory.
Effect: Putin invades Ukraine to stop that process, as well as to help Donbass.

That's the basis of "fuck around and find out". Those who fuck around "deserve" it only insofar that they took an action, particularly one that negatively affects other people, that would have bad consequences for them. We aren't sitting around a table discussing "Hmm, how many Ukrainian civilians are worth a multipolar world?" because that's a nonsensical question.

“liberals werent right in the prewar propaganda, the invasion was clearly a last minute decision”

Literally who is saying this anymore? Maybe like, in the first week, but now it's pretty obvious that we were mistaken and this was premeditated months if not years in advance. I have great news for you, the contradiction has been resolved! No need to complain about this any longer!

decent communists are actually allowing the narrative that “putin had no other choice” to fester

It doesn't matter if you think Putin had no other choice or not, because none of us are Putin. Putin made a choice in his circumstances that none of us are in or have been or will be in. This is just idealist nonsense. Cause and effect. Actions have consequences. NATO gets closer, Putin feels threatened. Ukraine goes pro-US, Putin feels threatened. Understanding - even sympathizing - as to why somebody does something isn't giving them support for that action.

charading reductive hypermechanical frames about nihilism instead of discussing this shit is doing great work. the movement is doing great

:jesse-wtf:

Please, report back when your particular ideology achieves anything at all so you can show us how it's done! I will make sure to report to the global socialist hivemind that advises what every socialist should be doing regardless of their location, history, race, gender, and sexuality and let them know that we should be following your course instead of the "simp for Putin for no reason" protocol we currently have in place! After all, we are all free to follow our own destinies free from the mental and physical prison of our material interests and circumstances!

Who the fuck is Roderic Day? I'm basing this off of Western neo-realist ghouls themselves saying Russia was going to respond at some point to NATO expansionism and Ukraine's forays into the Donbass region. This is fucking stuff Mark Ames had been regularly pointing out for years, and even mentioned countless times that Putin would respond, only to start flip flopping during the lead-up to when Putin actually did respond.

ill have fun watching yall resolve the contradiciton bw “focusing putin is a red flag, this is a national war” and “liberals werent right in the prewar propaganda, the invasion was clearly a last minute decision”

Imagine trying to resolve non-sequiturs, when there's three decades worth of historical reality to contend with. But what is your critique of all this, idealist Hexbear poster?

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