In the 8th century, two enormous empires were spreading across Asia from opposite directions. From the east, Tang China was the largest empire in East Asia since the Han Dynasty fell in the 3rd century. From the west, the Abbasid Caliphate had just recently wrested power from the Umayyads, and was now expanding across the Middle East, from North Africa into Central Asia.
In July of 751, somewhere in the Talas River valley along the border of what are today Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, the armies of these two empires clashed. After five days of battle, the Tang was defeated. Never again would a Chinese state extend this far west, and within five years Tang forces would largely withdraw from the region. Islam spread across Central Asia, while Buddhist influence diminished. The Battle of the Talas River is thus often presented as a major watershed in world history, the “high water mark” of Chinese power, the collision of two empires.
But rarely does history pivot on a single moment, and this is no exception.
The Tang Dynasty originated in 618 after its predecessor, the Sui, had reassembled much of the former Han empire following centuries of fragmentation. Within a century of its founding, the Tang Empire would extend from the Pacific to Afghanistan, exceeding even the fabled Han Dynasty. Its founding Li family was tied through kin and culture to the Turkic peoples of Central Asia, and the Tang developed into China’s most cosmopolitan age.
Its expansion was not unchallenged. Tang armies fought, with mixed success, against hostile neighbors on all sides, from the Nan Zhao kingdom and Tibet on the south to Korea on the northeast and the Uyghurs and Kitans on the north.
Meanwhile, at the other end of Asia, Tang’s western neighbor was in turmoil. The Umayyad Caliphate, in place since the 660s, fell to a rebellion led by Persians against the Arab ruling class. In 750, the new Abbasid rulers assumed control over an immense Islamic empire, smaller than Tang but still reaching from Spain across North Africa to the Arabian Peninsula, and then east through Persia and Afghanistan.
The conflict that led to the Battle of Talas River began with this rebellion that brought the Abbasids to power. Seeing their rival destabilized, the Tang moved to solidify their western frontier, separated from the capital at Chang’an (now Xi’an) by nearly 3,000 miles of deserts and mountains. In the spring of 750, the dynasty sent its preeminent general of korean origin in the region, Gao Xianzhi against the city of Gilgit, controlled by the Tibetan empire. A brilliant tactical victory secured Tang power in the area, and Gao was made its governor.
Their presence in the region dragged the Tang into more local disputes. The city-states of Ferghana and Tashkent, thriving Silk Road trading entrepots, now called on the two empires in the region for aid in their long-standing rivalry. Ferghana looked to Tang, and Tashkent, in turn, sought help from the nearby Abbasids. In July 751, Abbasid armies under Ziyad Ibn Salih encountered the Tang armies of Gao Xianzhi.
The best estimates are that both sides marshaled between 30,000 and 50,000 soldiers (though some estimates claim much greater numbers). The Abbasids were a mix of Arab, Tibetan, Turkic, and Persian troops. The Tang armies were Chinese along with local allies.
The two sides faced off with archers in front and spearmen in the second line. Behind the Abbasid lines were heavy cavalry — which the Tang did not possess. On the flanks of the Tang army were Karluk Turks.
For three days, crossbows and superior armor gave Tang the upper hand. But on the fourth day — some sources say the fifth — the battle turned decisively when the Karluk Turks, which had been little involved in the fight up to then, turned on their Chinese allies and attacked the Tang flanks. With the Chinese forces engaged, the Abbasid army overwhelmed them from the front. Only a few thousand Tang men survived, Gao Xianzhi among them. Many thousands were taken prisoner.
The role of the Karluks is hotly debated. In this fluid environment far from major power centers, alliances were quickly made, and unmade, so the fact that the Karluks changed sides is not shocking. Some sources contend that the Abbasids had coordinated the change before the battle even began. Tang sources see the move as outright treachery. In either case, the Karluk switch to the Abbasids was decisive.
After the battle of Talas River, several important trends came to a halt: Tang westward expansion, Buddhist influence across Central Asia, ideas and goods flowing between India and China are just some of them. Central Asia became increasingly Muslim, fundamentally shaping the histories of many regions, including Xinjiang.
Touching off these epochal shifts, it seems clear that the 751 battle was a watershed moment in world history.
The Abbasids did not follow up their victory with further expansion. Instead, Tibetans, Uyghurs, and other groups moved into the territory where the larger empires had fought. But this was not directly because of the Talas River battle. Tang armies didn’t withdraw fully from the region until the An Lushan rebellion started in 755. That event shook the Tang to its foundations and reshaped China for centuries.
The battle’s outcome did disrupt overland commerce between Central and Western Asia and China, but the sea route had always been an important link between the Middle East and East Asia, and it remained so.
Likewise, the decline of Buddhism in Central Asia had many causes, not just this one battle. The influx of Islam played a role, but so did the revival of Hinduism in India, which put an end to the source of Buddhist texts and ideas for the overland transmission to China.
Finally, anecdotes suggest that papermaking reached the Arab world, and eventually Europe, through Tang prisoners of war. But specialists in the era are, at best, skeptical of this. It is true that paper doesn’t appear in Baghdad and other core Middle Eastern regions until after the Talas River battle. However, there was widespread use of paper — though not necessarily paper produced there — in Central Asia hundreds of years before, and transmission along existing routes seems a more probable explanation than the romantic notion of prisoners.
The most poignant echo of the Talas River battle is not a break with the past, but a continuation. Empires have long sent their soldiers to war, to die far from home. Historians are often struck, reading about the past, of how familiar what went before can seem. I had that feeling reading these words by that most esteemed Tang poet, Lǐ Bái 李白, who wrote this poem, we think, after receiving news of the Tang defeat at the Talas River. Its story of power projected too far, and soldiers dying far from home, remains, sadly, familiar.
Fighting South of the Wall (translated by Elling Eide)
Last year fighting at the source of the Sang-kan,
This year fighting on the Onion River road,
They have washed their weapons in the waves on the seas of T’iao-chih;
They have pastured their horses on grass
In the snows of the T’ien -shan.
Across ten thousand miles the long campaigns and battles,
The Three Armies completely exhausted and old
…
The signal fires burn without ceasing.
The long campaign has no time for ending.
Fighting in the wilds they die in hand to hand combat;
The losers’ horses cry and sorry toward Heaven.
Crows and kites peck at human intestines
And carry them off to hang them from withered trees.
Soldiers are splattered all over the weeds and the grasses,
And being a general is something useless to be.
Then known that weapons are truly the tools of misfortune,
Only used by The Sage when he has no other way.
Battle of Talas, kings and generals :china-stars:
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Someone posted this Parenti playlist in a thread I saw today, and now I've got it bookmarked. Passing it along for all my comrades o7
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?app=desktop&list=PL9FUurpN67wyeRAVysXw-dDR_tVK9zYSc
It's a really good collection!
I think I'm going to quit my jobs in a few months--I'll have enough saved for like 9 months of life. Want to write a book. I feel I can't get on with my life until I get it out, on paper.
Yes, quitting your job to pursue writing a book is objectively a stupid idea. But fuck it, i don't want to have lived my whole life in the capitalist machine without ever having tried.
Hell yeah comrade, I hope it goes well and you enjoy the process!
I've saved up enough to not work for a few months at a time and never did anything creative or worthwhile with the hiatus, and I'm super impressed by people who do manage it. Also if you luck out and find a relatively stress free part time gig you can stretch the gap a little longer
Got a friend who thinks he's super radical leftist but believes every lie about every historical communist, and it's so tiring, every convo about political just goes in circles.
Guessing he isn't a trot, but rather hasn't read theory of any kind and is just going off of vibes based politics?
"dontdevelopaparasocialrelationship dontdevelopaparasocialrelationship dontdevelopaparasocialrelationship dont..."
sees Xi bully Trudeau
I am so proud of you father, I love you more than anything in the world. :meow-hug:Sometimes I wonder if this site is negative, then I take a peak at :reddit-logo: and man those people cannot show any emotion outside of disgust and hate and it makes us look like happy hippies in comparison
I guess it's the reason for the negativity. This place and Reddit get negative for different reasons
Hexbear negativity: Capitalism is literally killing is all. There is no hope :deeper-sadness:
Reddit negativity: They reduced the cup size of my video game waifu! I am going to send hate mail to the developers! (Omg thanks for the Reddit gold, guys!)
fr though have you seen the "censored" version of Dragon Maid? Looks ten times better than the original anime, realistic chests reign supreme.
Giant anime anti-gravity gag boobs that writhe around like they're possessed are so discomfitting.
I think to our credit we're mostly angry about injustice, mostly. Like even when our hate becomes poisonous it's root was compassion. That's not nothing.
American politicians be named shit like Jerkle Offman and Blorg Mcnulty
I apologize for the continued Twitter drama posting, but it appears that the service that stores all tweets now only has 2 engineers left looking after it.
:sit-back-and-enjoy:
we know it's doomed, but the specific ways in which it's doomed get funnier and funnier
train website not working i cant book a train this is not ok :powercry-2: :rage-cry:
The English would be much happier if they admitted they're French :soviet-huff:
How is it possible to fuck up the execution of a relatively simple emoji like saluting face so many times? Half of these look like they are shielding their eyes from the sun or wiping sweat instead, and the twitter one looks like someone not appreciating the head pats they are receiving.
Apple was the only one that got it right. The rest of them all either have the hand too far into the face, like above the eyes, or at a weird outward angle to show that it's a hand
My new job has me waking up later than my last one but my cat doesn't understand that yet so she climbed on me at like 5 this morning asking for her breakfast.
:kitty-cri-screm: "if you're not up in the next 5 mins I'll starve to death"
Hate when stuff made for kids doesn't appeal to me. Just once I want the characters to break out into song just for one of them to have some growly metal core vocals while they sing about friendship or whatever mawkish shite.