Russia-Ukraine Megathread 30

CARCOSA [they/them] · 3 years ago

Russia-Ukraine Megathread 30

eel [he/him] · 3 years ago

The twitter thread was interesting. I'm not entirely sure what it's supposed to prove- what stood out to me was the video posted- despite that it's unclear what was said or if someone actually was shot, somebody did ask if they could shoot somebody, and maybe already had, if they thought that was okay to ask. I also have no doubt that some people were killed by Ukrainian shelling. But with the sheer amount of people killed and eyewitness accounts it does fail to convince me that there was not a massacre by Russian forces. He also accuses the NYT of moving a body, and by extension deliberately spreading fake news. The body looks to be in the same place to me, and the NYT deliberately spreading fake news would be as far as I know unprecedented. I wouldn't really trust what I hear from Russian- or Ukrainian, for that matter- news on Telegram, though. That seems to be mainly a platform to spread propaganda to try to get people who read it on your side.

BynarsAreOk [none/use name] · edit-2 3 years ago

Ok so

-The satellite images are already proven to be highly questionable and inconclusive, even the NYT admits the satellite alone can't prove how those people were killed.

-We know some of the civilians have white armbands which the Russians use to mark friendly collaborators. Why would they massacre them?

-I am hoping you are already aware the curious case of the mayor that didn't mention a massacre when he celebrated Russians leaving.

-As the twitter thread alone gives a dozen different points against the narrative:

Video of Ukraine shelling on Russia troops captured by drone.

Video of Ukraine troops asking if they can shoot civilians.

Video of civilian with tied hands and white armbands(Russian supporters)

What is more likely?

That Russia somehow committed a large irrational mass murder of civilians many of which were sympathizers despite very obvious military doctrine against this throughout the whole war?

That Burcha was under constant shelling for most of the month, the bodies are most likely from different events at different days and as Russia decides to retreat the Ukrainian army decides to try yet again to frame another mass murder scene while giving no explanation or signs of regret for their own nazis conducts including doing these same sort of executions.

We have a literal dozens of videos of people being lynched in public, we know Azov used human shields, they are torturing Russian POWs etc

NYT deliberately spreading fake news would be as far as I know unprecedented.

:shrug-outta-hecks:

You want to live in a world where some guy in front of a TV or some editor for a fancy three letter newspaper earning 6 figures is a trustworthy figure but thousands of people crowdsourcing real videos during a war is "fake news".

I can't imagine being you in 2002-2003 honestly but I guess everyone has to go through this stage I guess.

ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them] · 3 years ago

https://www.npu.gov.ua/news/stoprussia/speczpriznachenczi-naczpolicziji-rozpochali-zachistku-mista-bucha/

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3445989-bucha-liberated-from-russian-invaders-mayor.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7yIyNBMpQY

eddies [he/him] · 3 years ago

Exactly how many dead constitutes a massacre in your opinion?

eel [he/him] · edit-2 3 years ago

https://twitter.com/JamesAALongman/status/1511425069372817410 Maybe something like this?

eddies [he/him] · 3 years ago

You know people can die in warzones without malicious intent?

eel [he/him] · 3 years ago

Yes, however this is not what happened, did you read the thread? There's no point in denying Russian atrocities, just because the USA denounces them.

eddies [he/him] · 3 years ago

Im not saying average russian soldier is a saint but Bucha discourse is very clearly a propaganda operation on scale alone. We will see if there is any viable investigation.