Russia-Ukraine Megathread 30

CARCOSA [mirror/your pronouns] · 3 years ago

Russia-Ukraine Megathread 30

JonathanKington [none/use name] · 3 years ago

I kind of checked out on war news 'cause mainstream coverage has been god awful.

Can someone give a very brief synopsis on what's happening right now? Mainstream coverage is giving the impression that Russia is losing horribly, retreating and genociding everyone in their path.

MoreAmphibians [none/use name] · 3 years ago

Russian forces have pulled some forces back from Kiev, likely to send them to the Donbas front. Other Russian forces are still threatening Kiev. Azov Battalion moved in to reoccupy the towns that Russia had pulled back from and discovered a number of corpses. Russia is being accused of the massacre there by western-controlled media. Mariupol is being cleared of the remnants of Azov forces, majority of the city is under Russian control. Russia is evacuating people from Mariupol in buses and allowing them to leave in their own cars. Western-controlled media claims they're being sent to death camps. Zelensky spoke at the Grammy's. USA continues to try to alienate Saudi Arabia, China, and India at the same time. I'm not sure if the the whole "gas payment in rubles" thing is resolved, I think Russian gas is effectively paid for rubles now but technically isn't.

EthicalHumanMeat [he/him] · 3 years ago

Azov Battalion moved in to reoccupy the towns that Russia had pulled back from and discovered a number of corpses

Was it actually Azov that found those bodies?

Puddinbrain [none/use name] · edit-2 3 years ago

deleted by creator

Prinz1989 [he/him] · 3 years ago

It's a city of several thousand people. It would be pretty difficult to fake this entirely since you could interview hundreds or even thousands of local residents about what happened.

Most likely Ukrainian fake would be to inflate the numbers and make a few dozens bodies look like a few hundred.

What I don't get is that the sattelites say the bodies were laying around for days or even weeks. Like every army would see this at least as a heath risk right? I kinda hope neutral countries can get some investigators there. That would be the most believable source.

Puddinbrain [none/use name] · edit-2 3 years ago

deleted by creator

Frank [he/him, he/him] · 3 years ago

It's okay to admit there's not enough information to make a judgement.

Puddinbrain [none/use name] · edit-2 3 years ago

deleted by creator

Frank [he/him, he/him] · 3 years ago

Okay but on the other side, and I'm not saying this is what's going on, but if you have an official investigation you need to decide who is investigating, get investigators in to an active war zone, wait for reports to be prepared, and on and on and on and by that time who knows what evidence will even be intact. It could be a good faith effort to find the truth, or it could be an effort to tie things up in red tape for a few years.

leninstoupee [none/use name] · edit-2 3 years ago

There isn't a need to fake much. A single street with a handful of dead bodies, then say actually it's like this everywhere and it was a massacre. Edit: as in a street that already had dead people on it for any war-related reason.

It can simply be an exaggeration or false narrative about real things. Much easier to pull off.

D61 [any] · edit-2 3 years ago

Depends on how many bodies, where the bodies where, and what the military units locally were up to.

On another note... If the video that was on some NYTimes piece posted on r/GenZedong is to be believed. Those are some really well preserved bodies for being on the street for three weeks.

sagarmatha [none/use name] · 3 years ago

nah, that's below freezing temps for you, but of course this begs the question, was it indeed done in one instance, and the answer is probably not, so a bit pointless to call massacre checks notes 10 deaths a day

D61 [any] · 3 years ago

Below freezing temps would keep bloat at bay and the clothes would help to keep the liquid purification that might leak out of butts and mouths mostly contained, but no dogs or crows chewing on faces, hands, eyes? On any of the bodies? For three weeks? In an urban area where things like dogs and crows are typically found?

Getting harder and harder think the bodies weren't staged.

sagarmatha [none/use name] · 3 years ago

animals usually don't stay close to live fire

Frank [he/him, he/him] · 3 years ago

Like every army would see this at least as a heath risk right?

Do you want to be out digging mass graves while drones are taking pot shots at you and farmers in tractors are riding around throwing molotovs?

eddies [he/him] · 3 years ago

At some point you can’t just drag them any more and that road appears to have been a target for ordinance, who’s gonna risk it to bury some 10 civvies when the city is full of them anyways? Apparently neither the locals nor the occupying force. I don’t see a major weirdness here.

MoreAmphibians [none/use name] · 3 years ago

I have no idea if it was an Azoz soldier who first found/documented the bodies. Azov battalion was one of the first groups that went into the town though.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/03/world/ukraine-russia-war#scenes-of-desperation-and-death-as-the-russians-retreat-from-suburbs-outside-kyiv

leninstoupee [none/use name] · 3 years ago

Interesting how this supposedly very tiny fascist contingent is everywhere, particularly when cameras are rolling.

JonathanKington [none/use name] · 3 years ago

Thanks for the explanation :sankara-salute:

Would it not be weird for Russia to leave voluntarily but leave behind evidence of a massacre? I don't know that seems weird to me. I don't doubt there are war crimes committed because it is war but I'm skeptical of western claims about the scope of Russian atrocities.